Some serious discussion, please

[grassman]

Hi Betty,
Your posts are always provacative. This topic is one I tore apart and came to personal grips with a while back. Guess I'm not always proud of it but have to admit I take the same approach as Fly Time. His final statement sums up fishing in general for me. I fish for the solitude and the peace much more than the fish. I've confronted and voiced displeasure to crowders in the past. Even took the approach that I was doing so in the name of teaching fishing ettiquette. Simply, and to my initial surprise, when I did "vent" it really didn't make me feel any better! If it was in my make up to teach/scold and forget, I would probably do it. Crowding spoils the solitude whether I confront it or not, so I choose not to. It's really that solitude I'm after so that's what the search is for when the rod goes in the truck. Will also add that this is the main reason I sold the boat/motor/trailer/baitcasters/buzzbaits years ago. (Still keep a spinning rod for old times sake!) At least with the flyrod and a stream I still have a shot at finding some solitude with a much better pace. Thanks for yours and others great insight!
Grassman

[Varden]

I usually just move on even when I've hiked in a long way. If it is my favorite hole, I just might go sit down behind them and wait for them to move on; then if they ask me, I'll be honest but polite and tell them that I had hoped to be able to fish without the intrusion of others and leave it at that.

Like Mr. Castwell said, "By now they have not learned, not likely my 'instruction' will be helpful."

Randy Knapp

[rainbowchaser]

I have just given up on fishing the Muskegon river because I can't handle the idiots who show up there. A couple of years ago I was literally run down by a guide in a boat who claimed that he had priority on the water I was standing in and the run I was fishing because he was working. I would probably still be standing in front of that boat cursing that cretin in the foulest possible language if I hadn't finally taken pity on the poor guy in front. He looked like he wanted to find a place to crawl to and there was no place to go. I finished up by bouncing a weighted nymph off the guide's hat (I was upset and hit too high) and left the river. I have been back on weekends a couple of times since but have never stayed. If anyone knows of a way to fish with people like that and still enjoy it I would like to get my home river back. My only regret about how I handled it is the guy who paid a lot of money for a guided float and had no control of the boat. I'm mad again just writing about it.


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all leaders tangle; mine are just better at it than most. Jim

[jsmartt]

Question for Crotalus. Are you a biologist? Your username appears to be the genus name for rattlesnakes.

[Jonezee]

"A man can become so caught up in fishing that it actually becomes a grim business..."
Sparse Grey Hackle "Murder" (1954)

[lee s]

"By now they have not learned, not likely my 'instruction' will be helpful."
Maybe the "method" of instruction was not "right" for them to absorb the first time. Just like little kids, some respond to a hug and some to a thump.
We used to enjoy educating on occasion. Now we do NOT. We still enjoy being entertained by others educating. When we are in the vacinity of a classroom such as Nimbus damn or the Outlet on the Feather, which is danged seldom anymore, we take some time during mid-day to observe lessons being taught. Entertaining, to say the least.
The ONLY person we can change and control is ourself. To change others is a temporary situation at best.
....lee s.

[WarrenP]

You raise some good questions and there are many sides to take on them. I think it would be difficult to have just one pat answer because every river has different local people using them and each river runs through areas in which the local people are all different and were all raised differently and so each area would require a different way to handle the situation. I moved to Tennessee 24 years ago from Ohio and I promised myself and my wife that I would change the way I react to others who have upset me. I plan to keep that promise. When I lived in Ohio the only way to handle the situation you were in was to put the rods down and "may the best person" win. I refuse to let someone get me so upset that we start name calling and seeing who can out shout the other one. If I get that upset with someone, I would just rather smack the hell out of them and go on. That was how I would have handled that situation when in Ohio. Now here in Tennessee, I would just glare at them so that they would know that I was upset with what they did, and I think they know what did, and then I would either wade back to the bank and sit down and light my pipe and let them do their thing or I would move on to another spot. Most of the time that sort of person will not stay long at any spot and will move on plus they usually do not catch any fish anyway. If I decide that I must "get even", I will wait for them to move on and then fish as hard as I can so that they can watch me catch the fish they could not! I do not fish close to the access points because that is where you will find these problem people. I will either go up or down stream where I can enjoy the peace and quiet which is why I fly fish. I have not run into that many rude people on the rivers that I fish. Most are very good people. I try to set the example when I fish by asking someone I come up on if they would mind if I go around them and fish further down the river below them and most of the time that will get the response that you are looking for. I find that most of the "catch and release" fisherman are very good people and no problem. I find that the few who are trying to fill their 5 gallon buckets, their cooler, their stringer or culling out the small fish are the ones that I stay away from. They are usually beyond reasoning with mentally and will be looking for "fight" of some sort. When the "catch and kill" move within eye sight of me, I have to move on because I just cannot stand to watch people kill trout. That is just me and I will let something like that ruin my day on the river so I move on. I am sorry that this is so long. I guess my advise would be to either sit on the bank and wait for them to leave or just move on to another spot. Life is just too short to waste any of it trying to reason with someone who is too thick headed and selfish to understand common courtesy.

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Warren

[Grn Mt Man]

Betty,

Had a similar experience about two weeks ago; but, not with a person also fishing. Was fishing a decent sized run with a fellow fly fisher when down river comes three mid 20's dudes in tubes and quaffing their Budweiser's as they floated along. No problem with any of that except when, instead of floating by in back of us (plenty of room there) they proceeded to float in front and right over the run we were fishing. Considered a few courses of action; but, decided to reel in and just stood there as they went by. The lead dude says, "How's the fishing?" as he passed in front of me. I calmy replied,"It was pretty good till just now!" He says, "We're just out having fun too." I replied, "Couldn't you have had just as much fun going behind us?" There were no replies; at least none that I could hear. And now for the good part. There is a God! The lead dude, intent on quaffing his brew and talking to his fellow dudes promptly bumped backwards into a protruding log about fifty yards downstream, got dumped and lost his brewski.

On one other occasion some kayakers did the same thing instead of going behind us. Rather then reeling in I continued to cast and almost caught a "foul-mouthed bass***d" (old breed of piscator encountered now and then). When the indignant cry arose, "What the f*** are you doing?" I again calmly replied, "Just fishing on this half of the river; the part behind me was clear of any obstacles." Heard no more from them.

I agree that sometimes doing nothing, just leaving the area or waiting till they pass may be the correct response. But, sometimes just standing your ground with a few calm replies is called for too.

Consider your actions a learning experience for all and "Let 'er go!"

[Crotalus]

jsmartt here is your answer without hijacking Bettys thread
[url=http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/Forum1/HTML/017677.html:93c87]http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/Forum1/HTML/017677.html[/url:93c87]

[pspaint]

Betty, Shoot now, ask questions later! Just kidding. Like flytime, I fish the WNY steelhead/salmon runs and you have to experience it to believe it. You'll never find a larger congregation of inconsiderate, sob's anywhere, especially for the salmon. Sometime's it gets downright violent. There are a number of streams that I use to love to fish, but don't anymore because I can't take the aggrevation.
As far as, how to handle the situation, I guess it depends on the person/people your dealing with. Some people you can actually speak to rationally and they understand, others don't. The best thing I guess you can do is just walk away. Nothing ruins a fishing excursion like getting into a fight and those days are too precious for that.