Line Choice

[Paul Arnold]

A few post back, Chris addressed a question to me: Paul, I know you have both rods [Daiwa MF43 & Amago], have you had a chance to fish with them back to back?

The answer in NO. I have fished both, but not on the same day. Shortly after my MF43 arrived, fishing nosedived (nosedove?) with the thermometer here in southern Indiana .

All I caught were some modest sized (small) bluegills, but it seemed to me that they put less bend in the rod than I would have expected with my Amago.

That was the reason I was curious about a hands-on comparison of those two rods. I wonder, for instance, if small bass (10-14") bass will be as much fun to catch with the Daiwa 43MF as with the Amago. From the way the MF43 felt during my brief use of it, I have no doubt that it can handle any large (4-6+ lb.) bass as well or better than the Amago.

That's not much help, I know, but best I can do until (hopefully) I do some Florida bass fishing next January.

[Paul Arnold]

Golden: In construing the Phillips paraphrase, may we assume that 90 degrees means horizontal?

[GregM]

With regard to big fish and the playing of them... There is a three-fold increase in fish fighting pressure that can safly be applied when the angle at which the butt of the rod is held is at a 20 degree angle as opposed to a 90 degree rod angle...

I assume you mean 20 degrees from the vertical?

[Paul Arnold]

I failed to clearly state my question, I guess, Golden. I'll keep trying to do better.

In order to interpret your message, I sought assurance that when you and Phillips refer to holding a rod at a specified number of degrees, you are assuming that if the rod is held horizontally then that is the same as holding the rod at 90 degrees.

To state it another way, if the rod is held exactly vertical would that be at an angle of 0.0 degrees?

Without know this, there is an ambivalence as to whether a rod which said to be held "at 20 degrees" is being held at 20 degrees lower than vertical or is being held at 20 degrees higher than horizontal.

[Paul Arnold]

I feared that was the message: So the 20 degree rod angle is 20 degrees above the level horizontal water surface in front of you while you are fishing.

If that is the case, I heartily disagree.

In my opinion, holding a rod at 20 degrees above horizontal is asking for a busted tippet. Holding it 20 degrees down from vertical is much safer.

[CM_Stewart]

I haven't read the book, but it sounds like the whole point is how to avoid breaking your rod, while letting a large saltwater fish pull against the drag. If your rod is not vertical, (and you are not holding the rod at an extreme angle out to one side or the other - which would make the effective angle between rod and fish the same as if your rod was vertical) the pull is against the stiffer, stronger butt sections. You would definitely be less likely to break your rod. The big difference with tenkara is that the fish cannot pull against the drag. You would definitely be more likely to break your tippet if you were fighting a big fish with 5X tippet. You could use a heavier tippet and not break your rod from putting too great a bend in it. However, the heavier tippet would increase the chance of getting a permanently jammed rod tip, and I am 99 and 44/100 percent sure that more rods are broken from trying to free stuck rod tips than from big fish.

I don't hook a lot of big fish. I rarely get broken off (and have never gotten broken off because the rod was vertical). I do get snagged a lot, either on the far bank or in a treetop following a missed strike or long distance release. It is not uncommon that have to pull back on the rod to break the tippet because I can't reach the line. I don't want to use a tippet that is so strong it is going to jam the rod tip from breaking off a snag.

[Paul Arnold]

Nice trout, Golden. You can be justly proud.

[GregM]

From The Technology of Fly Rods, by Don Phillips

RodForcesComp4.jpgRodForcesFigs.jpg

...Just presenting here, not defending or denying...

[if you are not logged in you will see only a hyperlink - actually 2 links run together - click on 'Comp' for text, and 'Fig' for the figures]

[GregM]

This is all new and counterintuitive to me -

Fly-Fish Better, by Art Scheck, pages 224-231

Art goes through about 8 pages explaining how little force a rod exerts on a fish.

Note: Down and Dirty refers to a rod that is close to horizontal, with the butt perpendicular to the line, and the top portion of the rod pointing straight at the fish. (Stu Apte developed it for tarpon a long time ago.)

Art uses a 9' western graphite 8/9 weight and gave his wife a scale attached to a 35-foot line.

"With the rod held upright, I was able to momentarily get the scale to 1 pound 3 ounces, but only using both hands and bending the blank into slightly more than a semicircle. Why it didn't blow up is beyond me."

"In the down-and-dirty position, my 8-weight stick exerted more force on the scale ...Straining hard, I could keep the scale at 2 pounds 10 ounces. If I'd thrown caution to the winds and used both hands on the rod, I suppose I could have pulled the scale to the 3-pound mark. Maybe."

The bottom line seems to be go low, and go to the side.
It will give you around Twice force.


RodForcesArtScheck.jpg