Need help choosing a fly line....

[WarrenP]

I have decided to spend more time this year with fly fishing my local rivers for smallmouth bass and will do this with a 9 foot 6 weight TCR fly rod. What I am trying to determine is what fly line to use. I do not mean brand or weight line. I intend to use a 6 weight fly line but do not know if I should use WF, full sinking or intermediate sinking line. My rivers here are not real wide or deep. The river pools/holes may be 6 to 8 foot at the most in depth with an overall average of around 6 feet and the riffles in between the pools will be anywhere from 6 inches to 2 foot in depth. I intend to tie up and use clousers, streamers and surface poppers. I have been experimenting lately with a 6wt full sinking line and a 6wt sink tip line and do not like the way a sinking tip line casts. The full sinking line has a smoother turn-over and is easier for me to cast my clousers and streamers. The sink tip, for me, seems more like "chuck and duck" and that may be the casting style or lack of a casting style by me. I need more depth for my flies than what a weight forward will give but feel the weight forward would work better for poppers. I have never tried an intermediate sinking fly line and would like more information from those who have experience with intermediate sinking line. For instance, would an intermediate sinking line work for my streamers and clousers and also work for bass poppers? If, not, than I assume I will need to carry 2 spools with me and use WT for surface fishing and some sort of sinking for clousers/streamers.

So, I need everyone with experience with these lines to advise me or at least give me a description of your experiences with them so that I will have more data to assist me with my choice. If you fish for smallmouth with the fly rod, let me know if you feel I need to stay with a 6wt line on the 6wt rod or if I should overline to 7wt. I have heard and read both sides of this and need input from those with experience with overlining one line weight. I usually use what the rod is rated for, but, if there is an advantage with overlining one line weight for smallmouth fishing, I need to hear what it is.

I just need input to help me here and I do appreciate your help.

Thanks

[kglissmeyer]

Warren, I can't speak to the particulars you are inquiring about, but I can speak to the excellent quality and craftsmanship of RIO lines. For the money, you will find none better. Made right here in the good old U.S. of A. in Idaho Falls, Idaho - the heart of flyfishing in the west. Check out their website and match them up according to what you're trying to do. Also, if you have questions don't hesitate to call them or contact them. Some of the best guys I know.

Kelly.

[WarrenP]

Thanks, Kelly

[kbproctor]

Warren,

What would be the problem with using a WF6F line and a sinking furled leader around 7-9' long? Tippet on the end of that is going to get you to the fish in most of your holes. I honestly have know true experience here but it sounded reasonable to me.

[WarrenP]

Kevin,

I thought along those same lines, but, have since discovered that smallmouth bass are not trout and they will hug the bottom and you really need your flies as close to the bottom as possible and they need to stay down there during the retrieve. Any current on the river will have a tendency to lift your flies up due to the floating fly line. I feel, and I could be wrong, that the fly needs to be down close to the bottom when fishing the pools. When fishing 3 feet or less water, I feel the WF line will work fine, but, not in deep water.

I could be over thinking this and that is why I need those with experience in this type of fly fishing to give me their opinions.

I hope this thread gives me a lot to think about and also help me with this decision. Last weekend I used a full sinking line in my trout waters and have learned that setting the hook with full sinking line is sure different. Lots of long distance releases but I soon learned the true meaning of "strip setting" a hook! I also caught several black perch and bluegill that were on the bottom honestly feel I would not have caught them with a floating line this early in the season. Their colors showed that they were down deep and they were schooled up in one spot and the water was still very cold. Another fishing buddy was with me and he fished ahead of me and was using floating line and he did not get any "hits" from these fish. I had him drift the same fly I was using through the area I was catching fish and he had no hits and was using one of my 7 foot Vanish Furled leaders which sink.

[kbproctor]

99.95% of the fish I have ever caught have been trout so I guess that does shade my thinking a bit.

[Old #art]

Warren,
You have proposed many different combinations. Have been fishing for smallmouth since a friend of mine got me hooked on them in the late 60's.
Are you wading or floating?

From my personal standpoint and experience--
Most of my sm fishing has been in a canoe. Only recently wading in one particutal area close to where I live now and only in the summer--no waders.
All of it has been on big water--The James and the New--1-200 yrds wide. A couple of smaller streams 30-50 ft wide.
Have always use a 6wt. line- 6 wt Wulff triangle taper floating on a 9 ft. 6 wt rod.
I dont worry about a tapered leader for this kind of fishing. Now use flurocarbon--4 lb.
Have always used either a popper(size 4 or 2} or one particular wooly bugger(size 10 or 8}
Poppers--never had any luck with ones that have rubber legs. Favorites were the old Pecks with the red and white dots on the bottom. Frog pattern. Can't find them anymore.
Wooly bugger--weighted. No bead head. Son ties them and they match the crayfish in this area.

Never had much luck fishing the deeper water. I want to be able to see the rocks under the water. They are what I cast to. Thats where the sm are--behind the rocks. Even with 3-4 ft of water they will come up and take the poppers. Presentation is not critical. Placement of popper is. The bigger the splash, the harder the hit if you can put it on top of them. Even in fast water, cast to the rocks. The deeper water is for floating the boat, the shallow water is for catching fish.

Using the wooly bugger in the deeper pools, I will cast to the upper end and more or less let it dead drift. Will usually end up catching more perch and red-eyes than smallmouth. With the weighted bugger and the 8-9 ft. fluro leader, I believe it goes down to at least 4 ft. in very little distance but with the depth you are talking about, it would not be on the bottom.

I am partial to the poppers for smallmouth, and have always used a floating line. I have used a sinking line once, on a guided trip in Montana and I didnt think too much of that type of flyfishing. I wouldn't think a sinking line would work with a popper. You may have to consider two types of fishing. Streamers and clousers. with sinking line that you are comfortable with, in the early spring and then switch to topwater and floating line after the trees leaf out. Again, I have found that topwater in my area is much more productive.

I don't know if any of my rambling has given you any usuable information or not. I must say I am not much of a "technician" when it comes to fly fishing. I dont weigh my fly lines or "build" tapered leaders or take casting lessons. I just do what has worked the best for me over the years through trial and error. It is an enjoyment for me and not a job. LOL Hope this was some help to you.

George

[Grubb]

My experience with sinking line in fast water water where you find the smallies, ( they in rivers like the fast water for the oxygen and food flow) is that the sinking line gets hung up on the bottom quick, a mess for me, I find I need to get the fly down with weight and use a flowting line, I cast up and across letting the current swing it down and also will strip it across when the line has drifted down lower than me... I don't like this word...lol "BUT" a split shot can help alot...

[tailingloop]

Warren,

I have never seen a smallmouth so I cannot speak directly to that part of the equation. However I fish clouser minnows and poppers quite a bit on 5 through 12wt rods and have fished sinking lines in rivers for trout and stripers.

I use intermediate lines quite a bit, including for topwater work in open water and windy conditions, but do not think they would be effective for your situation. Since they sink slowly, in a current they won't fish much differently than a weight forward unless the current is very slow. I have used intermediate lines very effectively in slow moving spring creeks but found them less effective in faster water.

When you say 'sink tip' do you mean a 10ft sink tip or an integrated line with a 24 to 35 foot sinking section combined with a floating or intermediate running line. You cast with the sinking portion outside the rod tip and shoot the rest if needed on the cast. These lines were originally designed for salmon and steelhead in rivers. The versions with floating running lines are quite effective in rivers since you can mend the running line if needed. You may consider an integrated line with a 200 to 250 grain head. Most line makers have one or more such lines in their catalog. These will be smoother casting than the short sink tip.

You mention a 'TCR' rod. Did you mean Sage TCR which is a very fast action rod that excels at distance casting. You say your rivers are not wide. With the Sage TCR, if you are going to be making mostly casts with poppers and weighted flies at less than 50 feet, I would probably go up one line size. I upline all my rods when casting poppers or weighted flies like clouser minnows when making mostly shorter casts. The heavier line will help load the rod for shorter casts and help carry the heavier or bulkier flies. In fact, if my casts are mostly going to be less than 35 ft, I upline by 2 line weights. If by 'TCR' you meant "TiCr" as in Temple Fork TiCr, I own a 6wt., fish mostly weighted flies like clouser minnows, and use a 7wt WF line most of the time unless most of my casts will be more than 60 feet. I also use a Teeny T-200 for sinking presentations with this rod. If you meant something other than the Sage or TFO models I mentioned I cannot recommend based on direct experience, but I would probably start with something along the same lines unless the rod was really soft.

One possible option would be to go with a multi-tip line. These usually have a set of 15ft interchangeable tips that include a floating, intermediate, and two or three sinking tips. Of course you may still not like the way the sink tip sections casts. The examples I have tried did cast better than the standard 10ft sink tip.

Another suggestion that may work for you is to use a 5ft sink tip line. I am aware of two of these currently available: the Teeny Mini Tip and the Orvis Streamer Stripper. The 5ft sink tip casts almost like a standard weight forward. When used with a sinking fly it will help get the fly deeper than with a floating line. The short sink tip is easier to pick up and re-cast. You can ever cast poppers with it if you are only going to make a short retrieve before picking up and re-casting. With a long retrieve the sink tip will pull the popper under and the rig will be harder to pick up for the next cast. I have used these lines quite a bit in slow to moderate flowing streams for trout using weighted streamers. I make the cast upstream of a location I want to work with the fly, make a few stack mends so the sink tip and fly drift with out tension so they sink faster, then start the retrieve with the line and fly reach the zone I want the fly to swim through.

[WarrenP]

George,

Thank you-Thank you

Your response was what I was looking for! Experience

Like you, I just love to fish with a fly rod and do not worry too much about what species I fish for. I started out with the trout because I have 2 tailwater areas here that have trout in the cold water sections and I find trout a lot of fun on a fly rod. I have also fished for and caught walleye, black perch (red eyes), bluegill, catfish, shellcrackers, gar, etc. I just enjoy the fishing and using a fly rod. Lately, my trout waters are getting crowded so I have decided to explore the warm water sections of my 2 rivers and I have been told by the "old timers" here that there are a lot of smallmouth in both rivers and they are not getting too much pressure. Since I own a NuCanoe and enjoy using it to get away from the crowds, I will be using it to explore the warm water. Since I also tie all my own flies and poppers, I will be using a popper pattern that Lefty uses and it is like you discribed, no rubber legs. It is just the popper head and has deer hair for the body and tail. Very basic, but it has great reviews. I may end up just using a WF line but I can carry another reel spooled with sinking line to experiment with. At our last 2 club meetings we had 2 guest speakers who fish for the larger trout only and they both use 6 wts spooled with full sinking line and that is what got me thinking maybe I need to experiment with full sinking line. I guess I have all these questions because I always go at things 100% and am willing to explore all areas that others are using. I guess I am just trying to shorten my learning time by "picking" the minds of those who have learned the short cuts. I really think you need to come to TN and teach me!! : ) I am really looking forward to this new experience with the fly rod.

You have really been a lot of help and I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

Thank you very much and do come fish with me when you can.