My How Times is a Changin!

[Chugger]

Just got some new catalogs in the mail and after a quick once over I was sadly convinced that we have entered into a new era in fly fishing. $450 for a day with a guide! $800 for a fly rod! $400 for a reel with a hyped drag system that you will never need! Come on now fly fishing guides and tackle makers! Absurdity now reigns supreme in fly fishing. Only about 10 percent of the products being hustled in the catalogs are needed and the quality of so much of the stuff is terrible! Every bunch of marabou I've purchased in the last few years is only about 1/3 usable. What about fly boxes? You have to get a bank loan to purchase a couple of fly boxes these days--but they are waterproof--wow! I could go on and on. Money is the driver--always and always--sadly! No wonder we have been labeled elitists by the majority of the fishing public, and we've done a darn good job of earning the title. Another great example of the absurdity of the marketing mush is the fly line debacle! Come on sellers and manufacturers, how stupid do you think experienced fly fishers are? A carp line--give me a break. There will also come a time when the newbies will understand what this marketing fiasco is all about and then where will the sport be? However, ole PT said it well didn't he. My two cents worth. I guess that until folks stop believing all the fly fishing BS things will continue to spiral down and only the Wall Street bunch will be able to enjoy our sport. Ahhh--I feel better.

Chugger

[Quade]

I couldn't agree with you more Chugger. I myself am a bargain fisherman, meaning that when I find a 7wt flyrod for 18$ at Cabelas in the Bargain cave, I buy it, just like I did this past Saturday. And if it needs a little Tweeking done to it, I got a friend that can do that for me, just like he did yesterday. No need to be took for $800 when you can get something that will do the job for $50. Besides, rod makers dont make graphite, graphite makers make graphite. Its the same stuff that the military uses from the same manufacturers. But, I could be wrong since I am a newbie.

[sagefisher]

Chugger,

I know what you mean, but I will say that I don't begrudge the guides for what they charge.

Their costs are very high.

Usually the price is shared with a fly shop as the fly shop is the contact point.

Then the guide gets his percentage from what we pay the fly shop.

The guide (some of them) pay for all the flies you loose and use.

The guide pays for the lunch for you and your buddy and for himself, plus the snacks and the waters and pops and the ice to keep them cool.

Some guides pay for the leaders and tippets and weights.

They have to pay for launch fees sometimes.

They have insurance fees and guide license fees.

They have to pay for gas to fuel their rigs.

They usually start the morning out by cleaning out their boats from the previous days fishing. Their day starts really early and goes really late.

They row us all over the river and often back up the river all day long, hard back breaking work. They know the rivers and where the fish should be.

Yea, I don't mind paying the guides that I use. They are really worth it.

To all the guides I use and to those I have yet to use, Thank You for your patience in dealing with me and in giving me so many great memories of fishing trips.

Larry ---sagefisher---

[Mike Ormsby]

Chugger,
I know what you mean, but I will say that I don't begrudge the guides for what they charge.
Their costs are very high.
Usually the price is shared with a fly shop as the fly shop is the contact point.
Then the guide gets his percentage from what we pay the fly shop.
The guide (some of them) pay for all the flies you loose and use.
The guide pays for the lunch for you and your buddy and for himself, plus the snacks and the waters and pops and the ice to keep them cool.
Some guides pay for the leaders and tippets and weights.
They have to pay for launch fees sometimes.
They have insurance fees and guide license fees.
They have to pay for gas to fuel their rigs.
They usually start the morning out by cleaning out their boats from the previous days fishing. Their day starts really early and goes really late.
They row us all over the river and often back up the river all day long, hard back breaking work. They know the rivers and where the fish should be.
Yea, I don't mind paying the guides that I use. They are really worth it.
To all the guides I use and to those I have yet to use, Thank You for your patience in dealing with me and in giving me so many great memories of fishing trips.
Larry ---sagefisher---

Larry I'll totally agree with your post -- guides earn their money -- I'll agree with Chugger to a degree about the cost of equipment BUT sometimes you do get what you pay for -- but there are deals to be had in "gently or rarely used" equipment made by the top manufacturers, especially when put on sale through the various fly fishing forums like FAOL -- that's how I can afford to keep myself supplied in so many T&T or Sage rods, Abel or Lamson reels, etc. -- JMHO

[8wt]

Chugger, you might want to check out the Carp Specific Fly Line thread on the warm water forum. The marketing hype does get to be overwhelming at times. I've always believed that the fisherman makes the gear rather than the gear making the fisherman. Knowledge is the key. You can be decked out like you just stepped out of the Orvis/Sage/Winston/Hardy catalog, but if you don't know anything, your're still not going to be very successful. Whereas the guy with good skills will take a low end outfit and knock em stiff. Heaven is being the person blessed with great skills and the pockets to afford top notch stuff. Alas, I fit into neither......but I still have fun which is what its all about anyhow. The one place you can't skimp is saltwater reels, better buy the best you can afford.

[Bamboozle]

You think that fly tackle prices are bad; a couple of guys here are talking about $200 bricks!!!

[J Castwell]

I still commend the makers of the 'carp lines.' No, there is nothing special about them. They are just the same fine quality as the rest of their lines. Is it 'marketing'? Ya darn right it is. Is it helpful to a new carp fly fisher? For sure. The new guy needs all the info he can get and if his target is carp,,, this is at least ONE of the lines that will do the job.

[Bob Widmaier]

I agree on the price of fly fishing equipment. I find unless it is discounted, marked down or a discontinued model, I am not purchasing much equipment lately. Way to pricey. I agree that guides earn their money. It's a tough job and no guide is getting rich! However, as the price goes up I find I just do a guided trip less. I use to do 3 or 4 trips a summer. No it is one due to the price. I actually spent more money doing the 3 - 4 trips a year. In some repsects, the guide business is hurting itself with the sticker shock pricing.

Just my 2 cents.

Dr Bob

[Greg F]

Yes the price of the high priced equipment keeps going up, but the quality of the middle of the road stuff gets better and better. You can get a darn nice rod for 250-400 dollars and a good trout reel for less than $100. You can still get a Cortland 444 line. I get most of my top quality stuff used and I build my own rods. I have never hired a guide because I am too stubborn I guess.

[bobbyg]

I agree with you Greg.

The only new equipment I have bought in the last several years is a Jim Beasley bamboo rod (a present really, from my wife), a Hardy Cascapedia MKII
reel (only because the price was irresistable, as is the reel), and a few lines and other odds and ends. All the other stuff has been used, but not abused, and the majority of it is either collectible now or will be in the not too distant future, although I use it all.

I do not fish graphite any more, but the two or three old rods I still own will, I guarantee you, fish just as well as any $800.00 (yikes!!) rod!

Just wait a couple of months and you're going to be able to pick up some very nice equipment at bargain basement costs, that is if any one can even afford that!

Bob