Bass Tidbit .14

[Buddy Sanders]

I'd like to weigh in on some 'general' myths about fly rods, fly lines, and their uses when it comes to bass fishing.

Many folks here on FAOL concentrate on what 'line' is best for 'casting' distance with a given rod.

I've even seen is posted here that the rod manufacturer knows 'best' and you should always use the line weight listed on the rod, less you some how 'damage' it.

Tight loops, 90 feet, all that stuff. Great if you are into the 'sport' of fly 'casting'.

I'm not a fly caster. I'm a fly fisherman. A fly rod is a tool that has a variety of uses that have nothing to do with how far it can cast. They can easily handle a wide range of line weights.

I put the line on a rod that allows me to easily cast the flies I want to fish on it, and fish the techniques, depths, and weather I'm going to face for that outing. If I want to fish a full sinking, type VI line on my 2 wt., I put the 4 wt. version on it, because they don't make it in a 2 wt.. If I want to fish a 2/0 deer hair diver in a driving wind with a 3 wt., I'll put a 7 wt. line on it to make that easier. I can cast this set up 30 feet in a pretty stiff breeze, which is all I'd ask of it.

The lines that you use on your rods can be switched around to give you lots of possibilities and options. The reel seats on most rods have little screw thingys that let to take the reels off and on as much as you like....up to you, of course.

The first 'myth' it that you can hurt a fly rod by 'overlining' it. You can't, even if you put a 9 wt. line on a 3 wt. rod.

The second 'myth' is that how much 'pressure' or 'power' or 'pull' you can exert on a fish is a factor of the rod weight.

Sorry guys, but given equal tippet stength, I can put EXACTLY as much pressure on fish with my 3 wt. as you can with your 9 wt. If you think about this, it's a matter of physics. It's the TIPPET stength that determines how hard we can pull on a fish, since if you pull HARDER than that, the tippet BREAKS...

With my 3 wt. pointed at 5 degees above the point of pull (almost straight at the fish, so the stess is off the rod), I can break 15 pound tippet. I can do the same thing with my 9 weight. NEITHER of these rods will break 15 pound tippet fully flexed, the rod will go first.

The 'purpose' of the lighter rods during the fight of the fish was to protect 'light tippets' when flexed. A stiff, heavy weight rod won't flex as far or as quickly as the lighter rod. So if the rod is held at 60 degrees and the fish makes a run, then a 6x or 7x tippet might break before that 6 to 9 weight rod flexes enough to absorb the initial shock.

We generally aren't using 'light' tippets when bass fishing.

So, for the guys who believe that you need a 9 wt. or an 8 wt. or even a 10 wt. to fight bass in heavy cover, sorry, but it's just not so. If you know your equipment and how to put pressure on a fish, you can land the same bass you would land on a 9 wt. with a 3 wt. since it's the TIPPET strength, not the rod, that determines how hard YOU get to pull....

What the 'bigger' or 'heavier' rods are 'good' for is casting distance with wind resistant or large flies. Since I fish from a boat or a pontoon when bass fishing, I can move closer to the fish and I don't need to cast far. So I can use ligter rods, which I find are more fun to fish with.

Those that need longer casts should use what they want to that allows them to do the job. I love my 8 and 9 weight rods. Tuna, Sailfish, Pike, and ocasionally bass fishing chores. Really BIG flies need heavy lines, and I'll admit that casting heavy lines is 'easier' on heavier rods, especally where you want to hold a bit of line in the air.

In any event, I know how entrenched this whole '7 to 9 weight' thing is in bass fishing circles.

All of the facts aside (since I can't get them to understand physics stuff), I'll just reiterate that I fish for fun. Lighter rods are more fun. I want the larger fish to be harder to land. AND, every 10 to 12 inch fish I hook will be LOTS more fun on my light weight rods, and if I lose that 6 pounder in the brush, I'll manage to survived it.

Good Luck!

Buddy

[RG/AR]

Buddy, Amen. I've long said that the weight of the rod means nothing in fighting a fish, or at least very little.

[dudley]

So, for the guys who believe that you need a 9 wt. or an 8 wt. or even a 10 wt. to fight bass in heavy cover, sorry, but it's just not so. If you know your equipment and how to put pressure on a fish, you can land the same bass you would land on a 9 wt. with a 3 wt. since it's the TIPPET strength, not the rod, that determines how hard YOU get to pull....

OK
I'm just a big ol'boob when it comes to this stuff.
So you're saying those guys out fishin' the blue water for marlin and sailfish with their 14 and 15wt rods that can only cast 25 or 30 feet are kidding themselves?
Well of course they are. Everyone knows that any fish you can land with a rod you can land with a hand line.
That big ol'lever won't help at all


I disagree Buddy. In theory you are right, but you will not always have a chance to have your light rod at the optimum angle. Things happen fast. Sometimes the only option is "put the wood to 'em".

[Micropteris]

Completely agree with you Buddy. Fly rods aren't meant to horse fish, hence why they are more enjoyable to catch fish on. They are crappy at setting hooks and fighting fish but are good at line control and protecting light leaders.

I've snapped a 9 wt in half on a 1 1/2 lb small mouth by "putting the wood to em".

Haven't broken a rod less than a six weight yet, while landing fish over 12 lbs in surf on them and pulling 5 lb fish out of snotty weed patches.

Point being you can damage any size rod by playing or landing a fish foolishly.

[Buddy Sanders]

Dudley,

Nope, that 'big ol lever' actually works to the FISH's adantage, HE has the long end.

The rods used for fighting marlin and bill fish are built as fighting tools. They are made to allow you to put the most pressure on a big, long running fish that will take hundreds of yards of line and often hours to land.

We are talking apples and oranges here. Bass aren't that strong. A 2 pound tuna would pull a ten pound bass around by it's tail and not even notice it was there.

I can 'horse' big bass with a fly rod. It can be done, but it's much more fun to use the fisherman's skills to 'play' the fish to get it away from cover and out to the boat without it.

Why is it that it's only with bass that folks talk about 'putting the wood to them'? If you hook a big trout, you 'play' them. If you hook a nice bass, you overpower it and jerk it into the boat?

Sometimes the fish does get to win. I'd rather lose the fish than feel like I need to be so overmatched that I can jerk the fish backwards in the middle of a run.

I have a Flipping Stick that will let me do that, but we were talking about fly fishing.....

If we use tackle that can easily turn a 6 pound fish, what does that do to all those little 10 to 12 inch fish that most fishermen actully DO hook?

To each his own, of course. I justt lok at tis differently, so we'll just have to disagree on this issue.

Good Luck!

Buddy

[waynep]

You know . . a lot of talk about using light rods for bass and heavy ones being not needed . . .

IMHO - I believe the rod weight has more to do with the weight line you need to use and how far you need to throw it. Yes, you can fish for bass with a 4 wt. But you have to have the correct expectation of how far you can throw certain flies with certain weight lines. I can throw a size 1 Clouser Half & Half with Med lead eyes with a 4 weight and 4 wt line, but how far? I could throw the same fly on my 9 wt and 9wt line, a fair bit farther. Hair bugs? Sure throw them 25-30 ft with a 4 or 5 wt. Or throw them 80 ft with a 9 wt. So . . I think rod weight has more to do with fly size and the distance you have to cast it. I bought a 9 wt to bass fish this summer. I'll be fishing out of a boat, large lake, big flys, longer casts . . . I needed a heavier rod, plain and simple.

-wayne

[dudley]

but it's much more fun to use the fisherman's skills to 'play' the fish to get it away from cover and out to the boat without it.

Buddy,
This was exactly my point in the other thread
Most often, when fishing in heavy cover, there is no time to "play" the fish as you would need to do with a light rod. The fish must be turned immediately.
The rod is a fighting tool at this point.
I'm not saying that I horse my fish in, but I do use my rod to keep the fish out of cover.
In the same manner,when a trout heads for a snag in a river, I'll do the same

If we use tackle that can easily turn a 6 pound fish, what does that do to all those little 10 to 12 inch fish that most fishermen actully DO hook?

If by this you mean to say that using a light rod is more sporting
Well I guess I'd have to disagree with that also.

Not apples and oranges, more like vanilla and chocolate

[Buddy Sanders]

Wayne,

That's exactly my point.

For casting large flies or for longer distances, the big rods shine.

It has to do with presentation, not how hard a bass pulls.

I use my 9 wt. extensively for fishing a sinking line for deep fish in winter. You need the longer casts to compensate for the water depth (otherwise you end up fishing straight down). Also for throwing frogs over the slop in summer, because you need to cast a long ways to get back in there and you can't move the boat closer.

If you are stuck on the bank and need to make long casts to get to the fish. If you are jumping the schooling fish, long casts are very helpful. Often the first cast to the right place hooks the lagest fish. If you need to throw BIG flies (10 to 15 inch bunny strips, or great big deceivers in the 7 to 10 inch range, heavy lead eyes baits that sink like stones), then you need that big rod for even close fishing.

That being said, my 9 weight will easily handle 100 pound sailfish. That's way too much rod for how a bass 'fights', even in heavy cover, in my opinion.

I'll use it for the presentation aspects, when needed, but it's NEVER because I want to 'land' the fish easier, it's because I want to HOOK them easier.

Good Luck!

Buddy

[ducksterman]

How come nobody has talked about the action or flex of the rod in relation to all this ....or don't they matter?

[Buddy Sanders]

Duckster,

I think that the action or flex of a rod has most to do with how it casts. And, since that is more a function of how the individual angler uses the rod, it only 'matters' if you want it to.

Certainly, a slower rod will flex more as you lift on it, but once you get to the point of 'maximum' force, it's a question of the angler knowing his tackle, and tippet strength.

Good Luck!

Buddy