tippet and break strength

[Clay]

I understand that we use X or diameter of line for classifying tippet material, but someone is stroking me.

As an example Dai-Riki lists their 1X tippet material as .10 and 13 lb break strength. While Climax list their same .10 diameter tippet material as 12 lb (so far so good) but when I buy Berkley Vanish (cheap Fluorocarbon) that is .10, they rate it as 8 lb test. So is Dai-Riki twice as strong as the Berkley Fluoro Vanish or is the Berkley really breaking at a higher rating but they under rate it on purpose? I know that many lines have an advertised break strength and then if you go for an IGFA record it would really classify in a very different class line than the advertised break strength.

I can see where some line materials are stronger than others but 1X or any other give tippet size should be somewhat similar. Just playing with tippet material today and I decided to vent my frustration. All comments welcome.

Rick

[J Castwell]

Yes. There are a lot of differences. In strength, sink-rate, abrasion resistance, visibility, price, knot holding power, and 27 other things.

[Clay]

I like the Rio Powerflex tippet material, but using Cortland Precision II 3X material left me wanting something with much better abrasion resistance. That Cortland really nicked up badly and quickly. The Berkley Vanish described as "the easy casting fluorocarbon" has had good knot strength for me and good abrassion resistance, but the advertised break strength for the diameter of line doesn't match very well. I wish that there was more of a standard in the industry. In very cheap lines they usually under rate the line because of the inconsistancies in diameter and they are covering their rear end when they quote a break strenth.

Like I said, just venting today,

Rick

[JohnScott]

Rick -

The X factor is a size - subtract the X from .011 inch and you get the size of the tippet material. For example, .011 minus 1X is .010 inch, .011 minus 3X is .008, .011 minus 5X is .006, etc. That is an industry standard, as I understand it, but that doesn't mean every tippet is going to be right on the standard. Take a micrometer to tippets of a given tippet size even from the same manufacturer and you will likely find some very nominal variance.

The two 1X mono tippets you mentioned are pretty close in rated break strength at 13# and 12#.

Fluorocarbon is an inherently weaker material. It is has some advantages over mono but strength is definitely not one of them, as evidenced by the 8# rating on the 1X fluoro. It has some disadvantages, also.

I like Rio Powerflex and use it almost exclusively for tippets. I did pick up a whole bunch of Dai-Riki 9' 1X leaders at www.sierratradingpost.com a while back for $.55 each. They are great for fishing big nymphs, especially tandems - and I can't make my own knotted tapered leaders or furled leaders for 55cents each !!! Three dozen for under $20 !!!

John

[tigfly]

I think that for conventional lines (that is other than tippet or leader material) that fishermen and manufacturers use the line's nominal breaking strength as a measure of relative diameter. That's why the power braids give an approximate breaking strength like 20lbs. but a diameter comparing it to a mono line's breaking strength of around 6lbs. I think that fishing line ads are kind of strange because they talk about making the world's strongest line as if one type of 6 lbs. line breaks at higher than 6 lbs., what the heck does that mean? Is it then really an 8 lbs. line? One thing I noticed is that for leaders and tippets that Maxima diameters are large for their stated breaking strength. I think their 3x is rated for 5 lbs. breaking strength where most 3x tippets are rated between 8 and 11 lbs.

[DG]

If all tippet materials were exactly the same, chemically, then they should have the same breaking strength for a given diameter. But each manufacturer has a slightly different formula. Some are harder, some softer, some stiff, some limp, some dyed, others clear, and so on. Then there is mono versus fluorocarbon. Then there is actual diameter versus advertised diameter. Then there is the knot you tie in it...

Monofilament fishing line is, typically, of much lower breaking strength for a given diameter than fly fishing tippet. 6# standard mono is a LOT larger diameter than, say, the 4x tippet I normally use that says 6# on it.

When I flyfish, I worry more about diameter than about breaking strength. I sort of figure that I can reasonably land a fish twice as heavy as the breaking strength of the tippet, and larger than that if I take care. I seldom fish for 24# fish, so I don't use 1x tippet very often. 3x is about as heavy as I ever go when trout fishing. And I prefer limp tippet over stiff.

[Flyrodde]

Rick -

Fluorocarbon is an inherently weaker material.


John

It was my understanding that fluro is a stronger material than mono.

The lower rating of the vanish is because it is a spool filler and not a tippet or leader spool.

Filler spools are rated lower because they have some imperfections that effect the strength. Line manufacturers rate line on and average and not on "true" breaking strength.

Filler spools equate to a cheaper cost but more imperfections and less breaking strength in certain sections. Tippet or leader material is more expensive because it has higher tolerences and a greater average breaking strength per diameter. If random sections of each are tested side by side, the tippet leader material would win most of the time, but not all the time. This of cource would be the same manufacturer with the same line in the same diameter. (i.e. Maxima ultra green in a filler spool and a tippet spool)

If it is rated a "true" breaking stregnth it will be stated as "Class" and not "Test" and probably also say it is IGFA rated or tested.


Try a bunch of different mono and fluros and use what you like. I started using Grand Max, but actually have not seen an greater fish catching with it, so I have since switched back to orvis super strong. It is just what I have confidence in and it is cheap and ease to get. I do use maxima is certain situations and amnesia as HI vis butt sections.

[Clay]

I have learned many things on this board and I am still learning. I knew that there was a difference in regular fishing line between pound test and what it's IFGA class is.

I didn't know that tippet material was different than regular spooled material. I did know that I sure didn't want to spend $8 for a leader. Like John Scott, I bought of bunch of the Dai-Riki leaders for 55 cents each. That was a steal and the material has been good. I have been putting Vanish on the end of both the 7 1/2' and the 9' leaders to increase their length.

I wish that labeling had more truth in advertising. They really don't want us to be able to compare apples and apples. They want us to buy off of image many times. Damn marketing people - OH, I was one of those guys for many years.

It's nice that they tell us these days on most spools what the aver diameter even is. In the old days they never listed that. A standard, hardness and abrassion rating would be wonderful as well as how much the line varies in diameter or how tight the tolerances are on the line would be great. I just don't think that we will ever see this kind of info since they will say that their formulas are proprietary.

If we really knew more we would be able to see different lines with the same specs at vastly different price points. Again, those marketing types are at work. What will the market bare if we put this product in this store and call it X. Venting once more. I'm about to get over it since I am about out the door with my fly rod in hand.

Rick