How Fast? How Many?

Okay, for those of you interested in 'speed tying', here's a quiz and see if you can guess the number of flies tyed by the winner. Oh, this is based on an actual tying contest and the results. I'll post the answer sometime Sunday.
Situation & criteria:
Done during a large tying show, indoors, well lit and with people milling around. There are 12 tyers stationed around 3, 8' picnic tables that are end-to-end. 1 hour is on the clock. You use your own tools. These materials are supplied to you immediately prior to the beginning of tying: Olive 6/0 thread (you use your own bobbin, or none), a box(100) of size 12 Mustad 3399 hooks, peacock herl, and a dun hen neck. You are tying a soft hackle with this as the recipe:
tail - none
abdomen - thread
thorax - herl
hackle - wound dun
All the tyers are allowed to thread their bobbins and then are given a sample fly. In 10 seconds the clock begins and the hour of tying begins.Flies need to be tyed so that they are considered 'saleable' by the judges. How many flies do you think the winner tyed? How many do you think you would have been able to tye?

Allan

winner-37 meaning myself
me-37 since you say "YOU" in the quiz, meaning I am in the compition..

I'll bet he could tie close to 2 a minute - say 115. Me, maybe 30.

He/She 82

Me....25

I'd guess the winner emptied the hook box; me, maybe mid-upper 20's. After watching Charlie Craven bang out a pheasant tail nymph in 1:35, I gave it a shot and worked my best time down to just over 2 minutes. When I had the materials prepped for multiples (were the contestants allowed to do this?) I could do 1/2 dozen in under 18 minutes and they were relatively uniform in appearance, definitely not something you'd see in shop bins but a fish might eat them.

Regards,
Scott

Shrugs. The only contest in flyfishing for me is between me and the fish. And they always win in the end.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottP

When I had the materials prepped for multiples (were the contestants allowed to do this?).
Regards,
Scott

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Scott - No prep time. Materials were provided, a sample fly given, and the clock started in about 10 seconds.

DG - Yes, completely agree that the only contest in "fly fishing" is between the fly fisher and the fish. This however, was 'fly tying'. Not the same. Wouldn't you agree?

I'll post the actual contest results tonight. In the meantime, I will tell you that the name of the winner was Edwin Rist (anyone recognize this?) and the show was in '06 or '07.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Allan

Scott - No prep time. Materials were provided, a sample fly given, and the clock started in about 10 seconds.

DG - Yes, completely agree that the only contest in "fly fishing" is between the fly fisher and the fish. This however, was 'fly tying'. Not the same. Wouldn't you agree?

I'll post the actual contest results tonight. In the meantime, I will tell you that the name of the winner was Edwin Rist (anyone recognize this?) and the show was in '06 or '07.

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Sounds like a slight of hand artist! ;)

Once upon a time I could pile flies very fast and sold many thousands. Would still think I might be a contender in something like this. Way back then I tied winged Adams in 90 seconds.

I'd guess about 90 since I think I might be able to do 30 in and hour.

Well, time to give the results.
I want to reiterate that no one knew what the fly would be prior to the judges placing the set of materials in front of each tyer. There was no prep time. The audience was walking around the tying area and often would ask the tyers questions. Anyway, I tyed 46 of those critters in the 60 minutes. All of which were judged to be 'saleable'. I actually thought I did really well considering I didn't have to re-thread a bobbin because I didn't break a thread, I didn't fumble material, go for a drink or go to the bathroom, and I didn't get too many questions from the 'peanut gallery'. However, the winner of the contest, Edwin Rist, somehow managed to tye 68 flies (yes, I said 68!) in that hour. In essence he tyed 1-1/2 times faster then I did and how he did that I have no idea. As I said, I went at it at a very good clip. At any rate, he did. He won a McKenzie tying lamp for his efforts and we all received some tying stuff from the sponsors.

Allan

Is this the same Edwin Rist who made off with the rare feathers in England?

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Originally Posted by gmac209

Is this the same Edwin Rist who made off with the rare feathers in England?

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Yes it is he. Apparently he tried to but was unsuccessful because he got caught. There are articles about it if you do a search. Believe there was a thread on this site where his action was discussed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Allan

Anyway, I tyed 46 of those critters in the 60 minutes. All of which were judged to be 'saleable'. However, the winner of the contest, Edwin Rist, somehow managed to tye 68 flies (yes, I said 68!) in that hour. In essence he tyed 1-1/2 times faster then I did and how he did that I have no idea. As I said, I went at it at a very good clip. At any rate, he did. He won a McKenzie tying lamp for his efforts and we all received some tying stuff from the sponsors.

Allan

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Ahhhh, very nicely done, Allan! That is keeping at it even if the kid kicked your butt! ;)

As a long-time technical writer, semi-mathematician, and curmudgeon; you did hit one of my pet peeves! ;) If he tied 1 1/2 times faster than you he would have tied 115. He did tie 1 1/2 times AS FAST as you and that is noteworthy in and of itself.

The fly currently in my Nor-Vise has about 6 hours in it and has been completely restarted several times... So I am trying (and tying) the other end of the spectrum... I expect to get it done this evening... And have two more to do for a presentation box. And I spent the afternoon building the block I will turn it from.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hap

The fly currently in my Nor-Vise has about 6 hours in it and has been completely restarted several times... So I am trying (and tying) the other end of the spectrum... I expect to get it done this evening... And have two more to do for a presentation box. And I spent the afternoon building the block I will turn it from.

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if it wouldn't be any trouble, i'd love to see your work some time...

you know i looked at this thread about 4 or 5 times...i was thinking i could probably pull off about 25... only because its for a comp., i am waaay to fussy with production flies. i have gotten quill gordons down to 10 min. a piece, and im proud of that. but 68 flies.... that's fast... 46 is respectable for sure...
you didnt mention, did you come is second then?
-spoof

spoof
Got a blind-side hit this evening and did not get to do any tying. A very good friend died today, far sooner than I expected, though we knew it was coming.

I have posted more than a few flies here, including full dress Atlantic salmon flies.

What I am working on now is a project for Project Healing Waters. Three flies for their medal series; a Bronze Star, a Purple Heart, and I cannot remember the third... But I remember exactly what it looks like! In addition to tying the flies I will be turning a large shadow box on the lathe to accomodate the three flies, five military "coins", and a plaque for a very special supporter.

Just realized I am going way off course here on this thread... and remember well how uptight many get when threads wander...
art

Hi Hap - Would you please clarify your method of mathematical calculations? If I do something that yields 100 widgets and you do that same thing and your effort yields 150 (same widgets), then you are producing at a rate of 1-1/2 times faster then I did (100 x 1.5 = 150). Another way of saying it is: You're doing that action 150% faster then I am.
I believe your calculation yielded 115 widgets because you've multiplied my result by 2.5 which is a 250% increase. Bad! Here's yet another example: On a perfectly straight unending road you're driving your car at 60 mph for 1 hour. Therefore, you travel 60 miles in that hour. John drives his car at 1-1/2 (1.5) times your speed over that same road for the same time. How fast was he driving and many miles did he travel?

Spoof - Elsie Darbee said that a 'professional' speed for tying Catskill dry flies is something like 12 an hour. That sounds about right.

Allan
It is the difference between 1.5 times AS FAST and 1.5 times FASTER.

"As fast" starts with a base of zero... you both start at the same time and place.

"Faster" means they start where you left off.

I did indeed say my calculation yielded 115 widgets and I did indeed multiply by 2.5... but only because that was what you wrote. ;) But simpler, if he tied 1 1/2 times "faster" then we start at your rate of 100 and add 1.5 times that number, or 250 total. If he tied 1.5 times "as fast" you would be looking at 150.

In your examples, if I produce 150 widgets to your 100 I am producing 1 1/2 times "as fast" or half again "faster". To be going times 1 1/2 faster I would have to produce your 100 widgets plus the 1 1/2 times, or 250 widgets.

In your second example John drives his car at 1 1/2 times my speed, so he crashed and burned because I always drive as fast as humanly possible and he obviously would not be able to handle the 90mph! ;) Had he stayed on the road he would have gone 90 miles... But it is all in the phrasing. In your second example you did not fall into the "faster" trap.

Don't get me started on ads claiming how much you are saving, either... ;)
art

LOL! I'll defer to your math because I really don't .............................! (again LOL)

Regardless, he tyed those flies at a very fast speed ..... Beep Beep!

Allan

I'm still hung up on the "saleable"!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Betty Hiner

I'm still hung up on the "saleable"!!

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Meaning of a quality that could be sold in a shop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Allan

LOL! I'll defer to your math because I really don't .............................! (again LOL)

Regardless, he tyed those flies at a very fast speed ..... Beep Beep!

Allan

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I am confused enough to have a degree with majors in Math and English Lit... ;)
art

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Allan

Meaning of a quality that could be sold in a shop.

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Oh, that part I know! It's tying the flies at a rapid rate, and still keeping them "saleable"!! Don't think I'd get near as far as those tyers!

If they wanted it to be a psychological test, they cold have made the standard "gift grade" flies and let the tyers pick which of their flies were good enough.
But that's a whole different thing.

Ed

I figured since they gave them a box of 100 hooks, that's about how many flies they tied.

Me I bought two boxes of 50 about September and still have half of them left.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Allan

Hi Hap - Would you please clarify your method of mathematical calculations? If I do something that yields 100 widgets and you do that same thing and your effort yields 150 (same widgets), then you are producing at a rate of 1-1/2 times faster then I did (100 x 1.5 = 150). Another way of saying it is: You're doing that action 150% faster then I am.
I believe your calculation yielded 115 widgets because you've multiplied my result by 2.5 which is a 250% increase. Bad! Here's yet another example: On a perfectly straight unending road you're driving your car at 60 mph for 1 hour. Therefore, you travel 60 miles in that hour. John drives his car at 1-1/2 (1.5) times your speed over that same road for the same time. How fast was he driving and many miles did he travel?

Spoof - Elsie Darbee said that a 'professional' speed for tying Catskill dry flies is something like 12 an hour. That sounds about right.

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Maybe this will help.

• If he tied 50% faster than you and you tied 100 flies, then he would have tied 150 flies (100 + 100 x .50 = 150)
• If he tied 100% faster than you and you tied 100 flies, then he would have tied 200 flies (100 + 100 x 1.00 = 200)
• If he tied 150% faster than you and you tied 100 flies, then he would have tied 250 flies (100 + 100 x 1.50 = 250)

Using your math above saying that he tied 50% faster would yield 100 x 0.5 = 50 (again assuming you tied 100 flies). Well, obviously that can't be right because he tied more than you. If he tied 50% faster then he tied 150. So if he tied 150% faster, it has to be more than 150.

Don't worry about it though. Almost everybody gets this mixed up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hap

Ahhhh, very nicely done, Allan! That is keeping at it even if the kid kicked your butt! ;)

As a long-time technical writer, semi-mathematician, and curmudgeon; you did hit one of my pet peeves! ;) If he tied 1 1/2 times faster than you he would have tied 115. He did tie 1 1/2 times AS FAST as you and that is noteworthy in and of itself.

The fly currently in my Nor-Vise has about 6 hours in it and has been completely restarted several times... So I am trying (and tying) the other end of the spectrum... I expect to get it done this evening... And have two more to do for a presentation box. And I spent the afternoon building the block I will turn it from.

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It's one of mine too! ;)