National Parks firearm law

Has anyone been to any of our National Parks since the new law was enacted? The new law permits OPEN carry of firearms in all National Parks. The first general public reaction to NON armed parks visitors was supposed to be VERY negative ( I'm referring to actual visitors who had first hand viewing experiences). There was also some fear that the sheer number of "toters" would paint the wrong picture of an otherwise wonderful experience with the wonders of nature.
Maybe it's too early in the life of the law, or in the Parks visiting season to take it's temperature but maybe some of us have BEEN THERE. Also has anyone read anything after the implementation of this law- good or bad.
Personally, I have not heard nor read any reaction.

Please note that our OPINIONS regarding this law were amply "aired" and the posts in which they appeared were justifiably LOCKED. SO, this is not a REVISIT to those opinions but merely a question "has anyone seen, heard or read....................................".

Mark

By th way, I thought EVERYONE should know, the CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS swept the San Jose Sharks just about 2 hours ago. It's The HAWKS and the winnner of the Montreal and Philly conflict ( in which Phillly leads the series 3 to 1) in the Stanley Cup Finals. Sorry Tyrone Fly ( well. NOT REALLY)

Mark
PS: Hijacking my own thread is OK ( per ME)

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Originally Posted by Marco

.... Hijacking my own thread is OK ( per ME)....

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.... hijack your own thread, I mean. That has been my understanding of the "rules" all along.

As far as guns in National Parks, I did see some local press a couple months ago with views expressed on both sides of the issue, with no clear majority. Of course, Montana is not exactly the place to get a majority opposing the new law. It will likely be a while before there is even much awareness of the situation. By this coming fall, I would expect an informal poll like this to generate some interesting comments.

John

P.S. Not to hijack your thread, but are you aware that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and I believe the National Park Service, and the interested State Agencies in most of the Intermountain West States ( Montana, Idaho, Wyoming and Colorado ) have taken the position that one is better off carrying bear spray than a gun, when it comes to dealing with critters ??

Follow the link, and be sure to read the actual linked document for verification.

http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com...inst-grizzlies

I think the incident that resulted in the law was the brutal murder of a young lady hiker in the north Georgia mountains. At the time she would have been a law breaker had she been armed hiking on the Appalachian Trail. The murder was caught and convicted and should be sitting of death row in Georgia.

I'm much more concerned about human predators in parks than I am animals. Saying that, however, one had better know when and how to apply the use of a firearm in any form of conflict resolution. There's training out there, if you're inclined to pack iron.

John,
I'll have to let billhouk's post go as unanswerable ,But, I have to tell YOU that I have BOTH the " UDAP,BIG MAMA( their spelling)" and several of the smaller containers. I have "several" because I always forget to bring one or three and have to stop in Cody to buy more. Dudley's description of me as "macho paranoid" notwithstanding, i have NO intention of harming ANY animal in our park system. My ( vast inventory) collection of bear spray will be my/our first defense in any event requiring their use. The firearm will be a last resort but it WILL be used if necessary.

Mark
PS: I DO hope that this law does NOT bring out cammo draped and inked skinhead types for that's the consequense I most fear.

Gentlemen,
AGAIN. lets NOT offer opinions. Just " have you heard etc.............".
Thanks

Mark

Since I've been 'invited' to participate :cool: I'll just add that this rally on June 19 may have some bearing with future popular opinion

http://www.publicopiniononline.com/c...e=most_emailed

Mark, it appears your fears have been realized. That is really unfortunate for everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Uncle Jesse

Mark, it appears your fears have been realized. That is really unfortunate for everyone else.

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If this is directed toward me, you need to know that Marco and I have a very friendly difference of opinion on the motivations of people who carry hand guns

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Originally Posted by Marco

By th way, I thought EVERYONE should know, the CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS swept the San Jose Sharks just about 2 hours ago. It's The HAWKS and the winnner of the Montreal and Philly conflict ( in which Phillly leads the series 3 to 1) in the Stanley Cup Finals. Sorry Tyrone Fly ( well. NOT REALLY)

Mark
PS: Hijacking my own thread is OK ( per ME)

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Luck I tell you. It was pure luck! :mad: ;)

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Originally Posted by dudley

Since I've been 'invited' to participate :cool: I'll just add that this rally on June 19 may have some bearing with future popular opinion

http://www.publicopiniononline.com/c...e=most_emailed

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I'm not really sure what the Neo-Nazi's holding a demonstration at Gettysburgh has to do with a law abiding citizen with the proper concealed carry permits to legally carry a firearm in the parks. I didn't see anything in that article that linked the two issues together.

I have carried a firearm in the Smoky Mountains since the law was passed. However, because it is concealed, nobody would ever know I had it with me even if they were standing next to me fishing. Outside of hunting or back country camping, I'm not a big fan of open carry in crowded areas. I think it's asking for trouble or a reaction. Carrying a firearm for self defense is just that for self defense. It's not to go around saing "Hey look at me, I have a gun".

I've been to the Smoky Mtns. twice since the law was passed and so far, I've not seen anyone outside of rangers openly carrying a firearm. How many were like me with a concealed firearm is anyone's guess.

Jeff

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Originally Posted by jeffnles1

I'm not really sure what the Neo-Nazi's holding a demonstration at Gettysburgh has to do with a law abiding citizen with the proper concealed carry permits to legally carry a firearm in the parks. I didn't see anything in that article that linked the two issues together.

..........................It's not to go around saing "Hey look at me, I have a gun".

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Jeff, I think you understood my point perfectly
This new law is an open invitation for these sort of people to openly bear arms in a tense situation
They may or may not take advantage, but it's my thought that this is just the sort of publicity that these people are looking for.
I'm not predicting any sort of confrontation. Law enforcement will surly out number the rally goers, but when the media publishes photos of openly armed neo-nazies in a national park,
....you're gonna get some public opinion

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Originally Posted by dudley

but when the media publishes photos of openly armed neo-nazies in a national park,
....you're gonna get some public opinion

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Which should be aimed directly at the neo-nazies unless portrayed otherwise.

But...not a revisit for me Marco. :wink:
In my opinion ......
Open carry around the general public, whether legal or not, is nonproductive for 2nd amendment rights.

Frankly I think the country has gone overboard. When we lived in Montana in the mid 1970's it was legal to carry a handgun and they were not registered. I can remember walking into the local Safeway on the way back from elk hunting with a pistol in a holster on my belt. I felt a little dumb afterward when I realized what I had done - BUT - it wasn't illegal!

I normally just post on the classified ads but looked down today to see this post.I too fish in the smokies in NC and i do think when overnight stays are in order that i feel better with it than without it,not so much for the animals but the
fools that are out here in the world today.Not to get off national parks topic but i also feel if more people had them at certain times crime would not be as rampent as it seems now,just look at chapel hill's president,maybe if she had been carrying,a decent person would still be alive and two !@#$%&*'s wouldnot be upkept by the state for the rest of there lives in prison.

I say if they look suspicious take em out.
Seriously, I have no problem with one pro-actively protecting themselves.
However, inappropriate open carry is problematic.

Since I am ALL FOR THIS LAW, i intend to be a HUGE monitor of it's implementation and to it's adherence. "Inappropriate" display is subject to interpretation. MINE is OBVIOUS. If there is a roof over your head and there are NO bear or hamsters around and all the folks around you are wearing shorts pulled up to chest high and knee high BLACK socks with Volvo's in the parking lot, PUT THE DAMN GUN AWAY. You're in NO imminent danger. I will have NO problem ( for the good of all) in airing my opinion if I observe a violation of MY interpretation. I can handle the licks ( hopefully, he said).

Mark

If I saw a gun on your hip Marco...well,,,, I'd have to get my pepper spray out.
Open carry around the public to make a point is ridiculous!

But looking at it again....that's what you said????

Hey nam.
I'm gettin this strange feeling you're conclud'n before you're read'n just because it's ME that a'postin. That's EXACTLY what I said!!!!!! Ya gotta be somekinda DUMBA--S ( "macho paranoid"- thanks again ,Dudley) to display JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN. The ONLY people who will know I carry are those who meet me in the DEEP wilderness or those who mistake my kindness for weakness ( also in the DEEP ............)

Mark

I guess the national parks are looking at...The right to bear arms...As far as i can see,if the criminals and thugs can carry them anywhere,why can't i?

Thomas,
For Shame!. There is ABSOLUTELY NO place for THAT kind of that kind of common sense logic in this question. It's best to hold hands with the perp and sing Kum-ba-ya or we are the world until he/she recognizes their wicked ways and repents.

Mark
PS: Here in Illinois /Chicago we have a rep. bobby rush who wants to ban all handguns probably to protect most of his constituents from the wrath of really pissed-off law abiding folks who have HAD IT with criminals.

But, I HAVE really "swerved" from my original quest for information. Y'all should forgive me.

Mark

Mark,
To your original question, I haven't seen anyone with a visible firearm in the parks yet. My little .357 S&W is tucked securely out of sight and if all goes as planned, that's where it will stay. I have no desire to shoot anyone nor do I have a desire to shoot some critter.

In the years I've been carrying, there have really only been 2 times when I was glad I had it with me. One was a domestic issue at a gas station where a guy was slapping his wife around and she was doing a pretty good job of slapping him back. I called the police and they drove off. Those issues can get out of hand really fast and my family was just there pumping some gas in the car. The other was an idiot had a pit bull at a lake where I was fishing and the mutt charged me. The dog was not on a leash and the owner got the dog before it got too close. Had the dog got close enough to be a thread, yes, I would have stopped the attack in a very final way.

But those are honestly the only 2 times when I have had cause to be happy I had a firearm with me and I sure do hope that good streak continues.

Anyone who would consider using a firearm (knife, baseball bat, or any other weapon) for anything other than to protect their own lives of the life of a loved one really needs to examine what they are trying to prove or do. I'm not a huge fan of open carry in crowded places. Hunting, out in the wilderness fishing or camping, sure, no problem and I frequently carry a .44 or a .45 in that type of setting, but in a national park or in a public place, nope, deep concealment is the best way to go if one desires to have a firearm with them.

Others may disagree and that is also cool with me. I just don't think it's one of those topics worth a disagreement over. From your posts, I think you and I are on the same page.

Jeff

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Originally Posted by Marco

Hey nam.
I'm gettin this strange feeling you're conclud'n before you're read'n just because it's ME that a'postin.
Mark

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How hurtful and unfair. :grin:

Nam,
"....hurtful and unfair". I guess I just don't know what came over me. Coulda been the consumption of vast quantities of cheap scotch and warm caviar canapes.

Mark

Don't know if this is directly on the issue you raised, but it is worth reading.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...31/detail.html

I wouldn't want to offer an opinion, but if I did ......

John

John,
Apparently you DID see some possible connection, however obscure, to this article and National Park gun laws. I'd be intensely curious just WHAT opinion you WOULD offer regarding the connection.

Mark

MARCO have you read the law---it can be found on the internet. Your word "OPEN" is not in the law and "CONCEALED' is. Also you cant just carry in any state. It is also governed by each states laws. BILL

For those who may have seen the recent documentary on the Griz attacks in Glacier on PBS, frankly we are very pleased to be able to legally carry in Yellowstone and where ever else we may travel in the National Park system. Are their Griz in Yellowstone? You're kidding right? I've only seen one up close and too personal and that was north of the Park in Park County (Rock Creek) south of where we now live.
LF

Bill,
No I have not "read"( said eric holder :)) the law. In fact I have not been able to find it on the internet. I would appreciate a link if it's available to you. Having said that, however, I HAVE read many articles both pro and con and they ARE confusing. The prevalent drift is, however, that CONCEALED carry is by special ( STATE) permit only while OPEN carry is generally permitted. In fact, Wyoming specifically states that the firearm ( if fully assembled) MUST be in FULL view either on ones person or in car transport ( unless one is a Wyo resident and holds a CCW permit issued by Wyo). It would be my understanding that OPEN carry would be considered the lesser of "evils". As far as " ....you can't just carry in any state..", I'm understanding that ALL national parks are subject to the new law and NO state can PROHIBIT firearms ( BUT they MAY regulate to some degree).

PS: Hey LF, Just got a mental image of you with an S&W 44 MAG 8" 4 lb. hogleg strapped to your waist. Kinda takes that " gentle lady" thing for a long ride. :)

MARCO you must have search on you PC and under Washing Posts "Federal Eye" it shows the gun law was in a Credit Card bill. Yes it is only good in states where peopleare legally allowed to carry CONCEALED arms. Federal law is governed by each state regulation. A person in ILL just cant carry across states to Yellowstone and then carry in the park-----Bill

Bill,
I went to the site you suggested and did see the headline including the word "Concealed". I do think that it was used in error. Concealed carry requires a MUCH higher standard of qualification such as use and utilization of firearms. Open carry , in most cases, requires only a legal permit to own firearms and the states own specific carry laws.. I some states, there is NO permit even required to OWN or open carry a firearm ( Wyoming eg.), BUT, there is always a special permit required for concealed carry.
And I agree, this law pertains ONLY to areas WITHIN the boundaries of our National Parks and in most states, outside those boundaries, the weapons MUST be properly managed , disassembled etc., and probably out of reach.
DISCRETION is a VERY important issue in obeying this law. I can just see some pundits just gnashing their teeth waiting to print " WE TOLD YA SO". I hope that we never cause that to happen.


Mark

I am trying to find some info I read that stated that firearms in National Parks will have limits like not being able to carry in public areas like information centers, museums, stores and similar areas where the public congregate in numbers.

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Originally Posted by TyroneFly

I am trying to find some info I read that stated that firearms in National Parks will have limits like not being able to carry in public areas like information centers, museums, stores and similar areas where the public congregate in numbers.

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If you read the Washington News that I found in search you will find none of the restrictions you mentioned. Only that it must be concealed. The state also can restrict who carries. It went into effect in Febuary and it was attatched to a "CREDIT CARD' bill of all things. BILL

Hope I can help to bring this post to an end. If some would do a little reseach there the info is out there inatead of going on and on. "CREDIT CARD BILL OF RIGHTS of 2009" has an amendment linked to the measure that permits CONCEALED wepons in national parks "WHERE ALLOWED BY STATES". This of course does mean you cant just take a wepon into any NP. You must abide by every states rules. If the state says you must be a resident or that you need their gun permit an outsider would meet with restrictions. Few states honer other states hand gun permits. BILL

The sight, handgunlaw.us gives listings of which states honor whos permits. Wyoming honors 30 other states permits right now. Most states will honor another states permit as long as it is the same as theirs .