Here's a shop that has lost my business

I have been using a local fly shop for quite awhile. I took my family to the Little Rock airport and figured as long as I was in the "Rock," I would hit the shop. I got to talking with the owner and said I couldn't wait for the weather to cool down since I have 3 new rods in hand or on the way. He asked what kind and when I told him TFO he started a "session" on why I would want "Cheap Korean crap." When I told him why I buy TFO, he had a comment about when a certain TFO spokesperson passes on, maybe a TFO rod can be strategically placed. I walked out and will not return to that store. I have purchased 2 full rigs... rod, reel, backing, line and case for the price of one of the rods he recommends. Oh well... I like my TFO and have had nothing but excellent service from them. I had a question on lines for a 2 and 3 weight and would a certain Mastery line be better on a 4 than another. I had an e-mail back from Rick Pope within an hour that broke down the different Mastery lines that Lefty tried on TFO. I ended up with an 8' 2WT with a DT XPS, a 7'6" 3WT with an XPS DT also and a 9'4 with the XPS in a WF. I'll do a report on the lines when it gets cool enough for me to head out. Heat and humidity and my arthritis don't mix.


Mike

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There is no greater fan of flyfishing than the worm.


Patrick McManus

If those TFO fly rods work for you, more power to you. I know the fly shop guy wants to sell some rods but he does need to learn a new technique. If he handled the TFO brand you know he would tell you they're the best rods around.

Mike,

I've seen the same attitude around a bit too. Mostly when an owner or rep is trying to push a different Name. (and not just for "buy inshore" arguments).

Too bad ... leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

JC, ...

Quote:

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...a guy has the right to succeed... or fail. He has made his choice.

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Very nicely said, ... can I quote you on that on occassion?

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Christopher Chin, Jonquiere Quebec
[url=http://pages.videotron.com/fcch/:516d9]Fishing the Ste-Marguerite[/url:516d9]

i've gotten more than one 'lecture' from fly shop guys. why in the world would they do that?

Mike,
Would you forward the info to me about the different lines. I have a new TFO rod that I haven't bought a line for yet.
Steve

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"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went"-Will Rogers

JustWondering... (what did you use this shop for?)

Rich

I was thinking on the same lines as Rich.

I'm sure it wasn't your intent, but if you were the shop owner and some guy came in and bragged that he had bought three rods, with an itch to get out and fish them, what would your reaction be? Taking into account that he didn't buy them from you and they were not a brand that you carry.

I'm not saying his bad mouthing TFO and Lefty was called for, but.........

Steve... let me know what the line is you're looking at. I misplaced the info... possibly deleted it... but I may find an answer for you.

I had only bought tying supplies at this shop. We had in the past talked about different rods but there never was any intent shown by me to buy from him because I can't afford his prices and have told him so. He knew where I stood all along. Maybe the comment on the product started me going out the door and the slam directed at Lefty finished it off.


Mike

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There is no greater fan of flyfishing than the worm.


Patrick McManus

Having made my somewhat meager living in Retail for some time now, I feel qualified and obligated to add to this discussion.

I would never run down someone else's store, product or service. It does no good. I will let a customer know the benefits of my store, product or service over another. I will also never get angry with a customer who tells me " I can get that at (insert name of some other store here) for half the price. I will explain that sometimes they are cheaper/better/available here and sometimes there. Products are products and I have no control over the quality, price or any thing else in my store. I do however control my attitude and demeaner when dealing with customers.

I, like MD, will not use some retailers because of the service I have gotten (or not gotten) but I will never hold the retailer responsible for the quality, price or availability of the product.

My $.02

Clint

BTW Maddog, it was Al Finley who said the line in your tag, and was reported by Pat McManus. I am sure everything Pat writes is factual and certainly not fiction.

tyflier

No one has the right to be disrespectful that's for sure. But I can understand how an independent shop owner could get up set under these circumstances. From Mike's thread it is obvious that this guy did not handle things well.

Also times have changed. Use to be the fly shop was were you had to go. Now all the big sporting goods retailers are selling fly fishing gear. And some of the big box stores as well. Kind of pushing the independent out of the way. Same thing happend with independent gas stations once convenient stores popped up on every corner selling gasoline along with milk.

So we buy great items made over seas that if and when they break we send em back and brag about great customer service. Maybe I should be ****** because what few rods I have are made in the USA and in over 40 years of fly fishing haven't broken a one. I feel as if I may be missing out on something.

I think everyone agrees it could have been handled differantly. I was not there so I don't know. I grew up in retale and spent 25 years as a Rep. Lefy was and reamins a freind of mine. a lot of folks thought he was a trader when he left Sage for a better Gig. Same with Bob Jacklin going to ST Croix. I understand, it was simply a better deal for them. Now with that said, the owner may have acomplished what he intended with the slam on TFO and there suporters I have had the pleasure of sending people away my self.LOL with little or no loss of business and great sadisfaction. (EXAMPLE) TFO? .... Gosh I didn't know you lived in a treiler park? Or TFO... I understand they take food stamps, but how are you feeding your kids LOL

This is not a slam on anyone DON'T TAKE IT PERSONAL.

Rich

early on in my fly fishing career i made a pilgrimage to mecca (the orvis store in manchester vt.). i was looking at a very expensive rod (which by todays prices would be mid-priced, but that's another story) and an associate came over to talk to me. i told him i loved the rod but couldn't afford it. "what rod do you fish now?" he asked. "i have an inexpensive cortland rod," i answered. "Cortland makes a very good rod," is what he answered, and to this day I'm still impressed that he said that.

[This message has been edited by D. Micus (edited 17 August 2005).]

From the owners side of the question. Yes that is not the way to handle it. When I owned a one hour photo and camera shop we would get customers all the time buy their cameras at Wall Mart and then come to us to figure out how to use them. We helped them because we might get the film processing. But the times I had to bite my tounge was when they would come in with the film jammed in the camera and Wall Mart couldn't remove it because they had no darkroom and we would remove it for them and then they would take the film and say they were going back to Wall Mart because I was too expensive. Go figure.

Made my twice monthly jaunt to Gene Stutzman's shop in Lebanon, Oregon. Gene was tying some beadhead caddis. We started yakking about caddis and he showed me some books he liked. I bought my TFO 3 wt. from Gene, but none of my other rods. ONe day we were talking about light rods and I mentioned my Sage 1 wt. His eyes got big and he exclaimed, "You have a 1 wt?". Next day I brought it in. He showed me his Orvis 2 wt. Gene sells neither Orvis nor Sage. It was just a couple of guys who love to fish talking about the art and its tools. While we were talking he handed me one of the flies he had been tying. I bought nothing that day but came away with that pleasant comraderie and sense of fellowship that this sport really needs.

Tell him to check the country of manufacture on his products. Just because the finished product was "Made in the U.S.A." doesn't mean that the materials it's made from are "Made in the U.S.A.". My Red.Fly reel is made in Korea and the Orvis is made in England. I buy American products when I can but quality products are made in other nations as well. Not out to bash anyone just my 2 cents worth. I would have walked out of that so called fly shop too.

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Eric "nighthawk"

An American Proverb:
Perseverance will accomplish all things.

what better compliment for tfo than to have the competition bashing them...

That's interesting, b/c the shop here in Richmond sells tons of TFO's along with Sage,Loomis, Winston and Scott, and they are all too happy to do it too. Their theory is that if you treat a customer the right way, and sell them what they want or need, not just some expensive outfit, you will get their return business.~Scott

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"Our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God and the people about us."

On the advice from Purebs I went to a nice sporting goods store. I took my son and his family and my wife. Now this is a big retail store lots of different sports are covered some better than others but a good selection. I wondered away from the family and wound up in the Fly area. I was looking at some of the vises that they carried and this gentleman walks up and asked me if I was interested in buying one or just looking. I told him I had just bought a vise and was comparing the features of some I had not seen. Well he gets excited and tells me I just have to see this new vise that has just come in.
We go over to the area where he gives demos and there was a nice import vise. I do not recall the brand. But it was less than 80.00 it was a beautiful vise and it was well finished. He told me with that price alone he would not be able to keep them in stock but the quality would keep people coming back to him. He had all the name brand vises, and the one I bought was there. But he was excited because he had something the average fly fisherman could use. He had expensive reels, yaks, rods of all kinds but his excitement was contagious. I was there to buy supplies. I bought over 150.00 worth of fly tying material. But he did not know what I was there for nor did he care. He was just a fly fisherman, and had someone that could appreciate seeing quality. While I was surprised at his attention I was shocked and proud to find out that my grand kids were getting the special treatment. They were in the gun room with their daddy and the people were talking to the kids so daddy could walk around and look. WE left that place knowing that we would drive the extra miles to visit them again. It takes us 2 hours to get there but it is worth the trip. I have thanked Bill a number of times for sending me there. They went the extra mile and when I told them were I was from they said if I am in a bind let them know and they will ship me what ever I need.
Service that is welcomed in this day and age.
Maddog48, I wish you had the same kind of experience. You can bet if I am ever going to the Rock I will contact you first so I know where not to spend my pennies.

Oh yes they give free fly casting lessons once a week.

Take care

Harold


[This message has been edited by Harold Hattaway (edited 17 August 2005).]

Harold,

It is apparant that you appreciated the personal attention and enjoyed your visit to that store as well as the sales personnel appreciated your business. So, I'm curious. Why not mention the name of the store?

This IS a 'Sound Off' bb. Many companies and shops have been identified by name and raked over the coals when they've seemed to be inhospitable, unresponsive, arrogant or sell poor quality. Unless the rules dictate otherwise, why would someone say something positive, as you have done, and omit naming the store/shop?

Allan

Allan

I was looking up the web address

The name is Bill Jackson's
The web address is
[url=http://www.billjacksons.com/fishing.htm:3ec17]http://www.billjacksons.com/fishing.htm[/url:3ec17]

You are right Allan I was very pleased and wanted to make sure I gave the correct spelling and address not just from memory.
Here is the address and telephone number.

I will not single out any one person because the whole staff was wonderful.


Bill Jackson, Inc.
9501 U.S. 19 North
Pinellas Park, Florida
(727) 576-4169


Harold

Harold,

Good for you, good for them, and thanks.
I wrote down that information in my 'fly fishing black book'(it really is black) so if I'm ever in that area I have it.

Allan

JC, how do you guys usually approach sponsers? Meaning, I know you don't go out and try to "beg" people to be sponsers, but as an example, in this case would this company be a potential sponser? Would you make a call to them, explain the positive thread and "invite" them to be a sponser? Or do most of the sponsers seek you out? Just interested, I have no intentions of using this info to start my own company (reference to LF's article) so please don't charge me a fee. It seems like hard work to get sponsers that you would want on your board, a little like signing your name to something, it has to matter.
Drew

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A bum-legged old man and a drunk. That's all you got?
That's WHAT I got.

Allan

You are welcome, just wish I had it in front of me when I started the thread, but you know how that is, you just never have what you need when you need it....

Harold

I had to slip it into my favorites....Don't have the time at the moment to see if they ship cross country...But I like giving my biz where it's deserved...we's all Americans and I care less where a product is made...so long as I purchase it here rather than abroad....provided the item in available here...I have bought an outfit recently...and those who follow all the boards here know what that outfit entails.... although I'm sure Shakespere is a mostly.....American company.....???

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"I've often wondered why it is that so many anglers spend so much money on,and pay so much attention to.the details on the wrong end of the fly line.If they took as much care in selecting or tying their flies as they did in the selection of the reel and rod,They might be able to gain the real extra edge that makes it possible to fool a fish that has,in fact,seen it all before" A.K.Best

"Wish ya great fishing"

Bill

I would guess that most fly shop owners are in that business, not because they are "Retailers" at heart, as much as the fact that they are "FlyFishers" at heart.

If this is so, then the owner's advocation (flyfishing) sould lead him to follow a web site or two relating to his hobby (and don't forget, it's his business).

Wouldn't you think that the fly shop guy in Little Rock (and all others around the country of his ilk) would benefit greatly from checking into FAOL now and then??

Those are the guys who won't "make it" in the future without all the help they can get.

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Snow on the roof but with fire still in the hearth

In the case of the owner of this soon to be closed fly shop,I guess everyone has the right to be stupid. Some just exercise this right more often and more graphically than others.
MD, you know this guy is " not for long" and there will soon be a closing sale or are you too disgusted to even then pass your shadow thru his doors?

Mark

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I'd rather be in Wyoming!

I should know better than to enter into these types of discussions. http://www.anchoredbygrace.com/smileys/kopfpatsch.gif Next time I'll know better. I hope.

you guys sure do talk a lot http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/smile.gif

I've not had an experience like this, but last year I was in the market for a new 8wt reel. I decided what I wanted and went to a local outdoors place to get it. The person helping me, as usual was keeping in conversation and asked what I would be using it for. after telling him, he decided that my 8wt was not suffecient and proceeded to tell me what I 'need' and 'should be using', etc, so on...basically saying I was wrong. I still shop there, but won't deal with this person. I didnt bother to tell him that the system had worked fine for years .

This store has been and will be there for quite awhile. There are enough guys/gals that go there and buy the top end items that he pushes. I'll just get the satisfaction of knowing he won't get any more of my money.

Just as a sidebar... I made an order with another company about a week ago. I ordered the wrong rod. I thought I had ordered the 7'6" 3WT but when the package showed up I found I had ordered the 8' 2WT. I talked to them yesterday and they would not let me hang up until they were fully satisfied I made the decision I really wanted. I wanted to get both rods and they actually felt I was settling for the wrong rod to just make things easier for them. When I explained to them I had a grandson that eventually will be getting started on flyfishing, they agreed the 7 footer will be fine. Go figure that one. I want a rod and the dealer won't sell it till he's fully satisfied it's what I REALLY want. That's 5 rods and a bunch of supplies I have bought from them. They're not a sponsor here, but without LF's or JC's approval, I won't post the name.

Mike

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There is no greater fan of flyfishing than the worm.


Patrick McManus

Mike, go ahead and post it. In fact, the next time you talk to them you might ask if they've even seen FAOL.

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LadyFisher, Publisher of
FAOL

It's Feather-Craft. I have had nothing but superior service from them. Like I said before, they would not let me hang up until they were satisfied I was happy with what I ordered and wasn't trying to make it easier for them. That's something you don't see every day.


Mike

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There is no greater fan of flyfishing than the worm.


Patrick McManus

Well the way I look at this one is that both party's were a little wrong. Maddog for bragging about is new rods in a store that didn't carry them and the store owner for saying what he did. The store owner should have said I do not carry that brand so I do not know that much about them. End of story.

I am wondering why that store does not carry a cheaper line of rods? All the shops in my area (And there are a bunch of them) all carry a cheaper line of rods?

I used a TFO a few years back for a school that I had to do. The reason for using it was that my rod had broken while fishing it and being about 2,000 miles from home I had to borrow this rod or nothing. It was supposed to be a 5 weight but I could not get a 7 wgt line to cast well on it. In truth it would have taken a 9wgt line to do the job right. This was BFL (Before Lefty). It is good that he went there and did what he did because there rods up until he got there were garbbage. Now they are not to bad of a rod for the money.

Lots of cheaper rods out there now days and shop owners are all carring one brand or another becasue if they don't they will lose business and they know it. A lot of the expensive rod companys are coming out with a less expensive line of rods now days to keep up with the demand. I do believe that they are seeing that the market has a place for a lower price range of rods. But believe me they are still selling the top of the line rods to.

In todays market and the way things are going it would be best for the small shop owner to bend over backwards to do right by his customers. I know a lot of them do that but you will always have a few that do not or that have an employee that is a wise guy, If that happens tell the shop owner about it. Let him take care of his employee. If it is the shop owner then jsut say "SEE YA" Ron

Ron... nowhere does it say I was bragging about the rods I got. I made a statement of having new rods to try out, I was asked what type they were and I said TFO. That's it, nothing else. I didn't gloat over the fact I bought rods from another store.I was asked a question and I answered it. The tirade against TFO started and I left. I don't think saying why I bought them could be seen as gloating, but maybe someone else could. I don't know.


Mike

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There is no greater fan of flyfishing than the worm.


Patrick McManus



[This message has been edited by maddog48 (edited 18 August 2005).]

i bought a new Tfo a few weeks ago and the guys from my flyshop in whitefish mt. not only came out and test cast a couple of the TFo's with me they knocked 25.00 off as a repeat customer discount.

Maddog- Not trying to start anything here but you have to admit that you were looking to tell someone about your new rods, Which I may add that it is more than normal to do so. I would have probably done the same thing. It is human nature to brag about a new thing we are getting or just got. If you didn't want to brag just a bit you wouldn't have said anything. But I will also admit that the person at the shops was more than an *** over it. If it would have happened here I would have told the guy he was an ***. I have known most of the shop owners here for many years so I don't take any crap from them.
In fact a few years back I had a newer guy in one shop make light of just about eveything I had to say. I told one of the other clerks in the store to tell him if he did it again I would take him out back and one of us wouldn't walk back into the store for awhile. I am to old to take crap off of a young jerk. It stopped right there and then. He dosen't work for that shop anymore thank goodness. Ron

PS: I am glad he didn't take me up on it he would have probably killed me. http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/wink.gif

Harold,

How ya been? Great post.

Quote:

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I was looking at some of the vises that they carried and this gentleman walks up and asked me if I was interested in buying one or just looking. I told him I had just bought a vise and was comparing the features of some I had not seen. Well he gets excited and tells me I just have to see this new vise that has just come in.

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If only more businesses had people like this gentleman we would all have better experiences. He knew you were not in the market for a vise, but his enthusiasm added to your experience and probably was a factor in your decision to buy what you did. It ain't rocket science; it is just being friendly and knowing how to treat your potential customers.

Jerry

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Dream the Life, Live the Dream
Laugh at yourself first and all else falls into place
Board of Directors, Valley Forge Trout Unlimited

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