Toon, float or kayak?

I'm certain somebody has asked this question but I just couldn't find any posts on it.
I am thinking about getting one pontoon, tube or kayak but I'm not sure which one would be more suitable for bass and striper fishing in a mid size pond. I don't have a lot of experience fishing from a boat so I take I don't have sea legs if that matters. I did own a u shape tube that I tried once in pool, it seemed easy to handle.
The other thing to take into consideration is that my fishing budget is not what it use to be so I can't spend a lot.

Thanks in advance for your help.

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/forumdisplay.php?f=9
Check this out. I think he has one left. Jim

You might need to be a little more specific about the intended uses for a definitive answer, but here are some of my observations...

float tubes
- easy to transport, fit into the trunk of a car
- your butt is always in the water, not so nice on cold days
- not efficiant over distance, few yards OK, a hundred yards is a heck of a lot of kicking
- can be impossile to return to launch point in high winds, beach the boat and walk home
- since your legs dangle down you need min. 3-4 feet of water to float
- entering shallow banks is difficult, need to walk in clumsy flippers to deeper water
- legs hanging down can be dangerous in moving water, feet catch and flip ya right over
- light enough that hiking in to remote locations is possible
- not allowed on many rivers do to safety issues
- can't pee out of one, you will need to go to shore and remove your waders

pontoons
- fits in the back of my SUV when dissasembled, or on top when put together
- takes 20 minutes to assemble or take down, prefer to leave it set up for multi-day
- butt sits high and dry in comfy seat with back support, legs can rest out of water too
- low draft, floats in 6" of water, enter or leave shallow water easily
- need flippers or extra set of arms to fish and row at same time
- flipper and oars work best in 'reverse' direction, forward travel is much less efficiant
- big enough for lots of gear, small cooler, live well, spare clothes, 6 pack, whatever
- big wide footprint, really hard to flip one
- some are stable enough for stand up casting, nice feature
- oars provide efficiant propulsion, can also mount small mount small trolling motor
- higher wind profile, tough to keep it where you want it when wind is gusting
- beefy enough for class III rivers, bounces off rocks w/o damage

kayak
- need roof rack for transport, include this in cost analysis, those thule racks aren't cheap
- zero assembly time, gotta love that
- it's a wet ride, you will be sitting in water much of the time
- 90 degree sitting position is uncomfortable for some folks w/ back problems
- paddle and fly rod each need two hands, cannot to fish and steer at same time
- storage space is limited on some models, where do I put the cooler?
- stable but it is still possible to flip them, expensive ones can be fitted w/ outriggers for stand up casting
- very efficiant propulsion, good for long distances or upstream/upwind travel, silent and stealthy
- travel forward, backward and turn on a dime no problem, as long as both hands are free
- might want a paddle leash or spare break down paddle, they don't go far w/o one.
- need full size storage space for off season, 12-16 feet takes up a lot of room
- modern roto molded plastic hulls are almost indistructable, pass boat the along to your grand kids

Wow Kengore, that was an amazing explanation. This will make my purchase (one day) a whole lot easier. I thank you for sharing such valuable info. I think so far I'm leaning towards the float, easier to use. I will be fishing a lagoon with bass and some striped bass. What shape do you think is better?

I have a pontoon, round tube (my 3rd) and a Fish Cat LCS4. The latter is my favorite of the bunch. I get out the pontoon when I have a larger lake to cover as even with my pitiful rowing skills I can fish a good sized lake and travel from bream bed to bream bed with relative ease. If I used it more I would probably use my trolling motor on it some. I frequently wear shorts and sun block on the upper leg. I wear swim fins and use them to to move around while fishing.

Kengore in right taking a whiz in a float tube is involved, a float tube is a barge where the LCS 4 is more of a boat when it comes to moving around. In warm weather you could wear shorts with either really but with the round tube you will be soak with the LCS you will have a wet backside. If I could only have one toy of this type it would be the LCS or a similar pontube.

Down here thunderstorm can come up quick, the fastest you can go in any type float tube is really slow. I have been known to do aerobic float tubing with hand paddles and swim fins going in unison, but I really don't like to practice.

Heres the toon i have... aint had a bit of trouble with it... very tough & rugged... takes me about 10min to put it togather, inflate the floats & have it all readied up to go... i use a coleman battery opperated air pump steadin of the hand pump what comes with it...

http://www.creekcompany.com/indivdis...toID=254&Cat=3

For inland lakes and rivers I think sit-in kayaks are superior to sit on top kayaks. You stay dry and most have much more comfortable seats than sots. They also tend to be faster and more manuverable (of course there are exceptions). A 12 foot rec kayak with a large cockpit makes a great fishing craft.

Kayak are fast, but if windy, no hands free fishing. They are what they are, they don't deflate (unless you get one of North Forth Outdoors, which are cool as heck, plus you can sit side way and kick with flippers).
But, I am betting the price is up there

Donut tubes, hard to cast from as you are sitting half in the water. Plus, there are cases of people rolling upside down and drowning.

"U" tubes are a little better, in that they have an open front. But they require that cross bar that with out makes for a very uncomfortable ride. Plus those braces can and do break.

"V" tubes are great. Shaped like an arrow head, they cut through the water great. Sitting higher, easier to cast from. More storage.
You have a choice of a foam seat (which will require modification after time) and the inflatable. The inflatable packs up very small and easy to transport.
More storage.
Again exception to this rule, is North Fork Outdoors, with the Freestyle H3. 6' long "V" tube. It can take rivers (the boat can, the operator is another story). You can also use paddles on it, or get one of those oar kits made over seas.
Plus I watched a video of some guys rolling over on their belly in a "V" tube and swimming. They could cover allot of water very quickly. Just a thought.

Lastly, Pontoon. The most comfortable seat available. Molded, padded plastic seat. You can sit for hours, and even pee more easily (even me with aid of a towel or some coverage)
Your leg from the knee down are in the water, so you only need Hippers or in some cases I have seen the knee high rubber farm boots work.
You can kick, row, and for a license fee - motor.
Sitting higher, easier to cast, plus several models with standing platform.
Allot more storage.
Depending on the material is the weight factor and longevity.
Aluminum frame and Urethane or Bladderless is going to be the lightest.
Urethane or bladderless is less susceptible to altitude and temp change, plus less likely to crack from being folded up.
Vinyl, is cheaper and heavier and more effected by alt, or temp, and not the longevity. Can get cracks and holes from folding.
The outer cover it very important. Like a hot dog, it holds it all together. Thicker PVC is going to add weight but also adds toughness.
A rhino type bottom is the best as you can drag the boat.
PONTOON ROCKERS...this is the tips of the pontoon. Like the ODC, it has very large rockers. Designed more for white water than still water. Less of the over all (center) pontoon is in the water, meaning less weight capacity.
Outcast, Bucks, NFO are shorter rockers and are outstanding for stillwater plus rivers. More all purpose than the specialty pontoons. Plus the large rockers on the ODC means less material, and less money.

Just my take on it.
I have started off in a Donut, moved up to a "U", then the SFC followed by the H3 and NFO Navigator II. I even had a Day Tripper (but that is another story). A Bucks Bag 6' Alpine pontoon, a Venture outdoors 4' pontoon. a Dave Scadden Expedition, and an Escalade, then the 11 1/2' Cardiac Canyon to the now OUTLAW X5.

I admit, I have a flat bed trailer, but I can launch and trailer my boat by myself and I am not a burly woman. I have also launched at great distances.
Even gone as far as laying a tarp down, putting boat on top and dragging it to the water over rougher territory.

WIND, okay as I mentioned, I have had several boats and several models. WIND EFFECTS THEM ALL! People say you will get blown around more in a Pontoon because you sit higher........you will get blown around just as much in ANY boat. Advantage to a Pontoon, you can row if your legs give out.
I have nearly died from exhaustion trying to get to shore in my SFC.

Hi Martin,
For what it's worth, here's my take.

Go to each of the waters where you intend to use this watercraft and observe what type of craft, including the make and model that the anglers are using. Inquire into their reasoning and choices. Chances are that one or two types and sizes of craft will far outnumber all others you'll see there and you'll get a good look at the accessory set ups that are most common for those waters.
Those anglers went through the selection process, possibly even a long and costly trial and error process and amongst the more seasoned anglers, there will be a body knowledge that already exist about which craft best suits those waters and fishing techniques. It might not be a bad idea to bring along your waders and whatever foot gear that you have that might be suitable to these craft. Many anglers would be glad to let you take a little test ride in their craft if they think your sincerely interested. ( ...and I'd bet that every respondent to this thread would let you take a test spin in their's, if it were possible. )

If that's not possible, check in with fly fishing bulletin boards or fly clubs that target those same fishing areas, or for that matter, talk to people here who fish the same waters you intend to fish, they'll have a better feel for your home waters. But the best info you'll get will be that which you gather through your own on the spot observations and interviews.

Best, Dave

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Originally Posted by kengore

You might need to be a little more specific about the intended uses for a definitive answer, but here are some of my observations...

kayak
- need roof rack for transport, include this in cost analysis, those thule racks aren't cheap
- zero assembly time, gotta love that
- it's a wet ride, you will be sitting in water much of the time
- 90 degree sitting position is uncomfortable for some folks w/ back problems
- paddle and fly rod each need two hands, cannot to fish and steer at same time
- storage space is limited on some models, where do I put the cooler?
- stable but it is still possible to flip them, expensive ones can be fitted w/ outriggers for stand up casting
- very efficiant propulsion, good for long distances or upstream/upwind travel, silent and stealthy
- travel forward, backward and turn on a dime no problem, as long as both hands are free
- might want a paddle leash or spare break down paddle, they don't go far w/o one.
- need full size storage space for off season, 12-16 feet takes up a lot of room
- modern roto molded plastic hulls are almost indistructable, pass boat the along to your grand kids

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Have to disagree on several of the above points:

You don't always need a roof rack. Many kayaks can be placed in the bed of a pickup truck. Also, existing "luggage racks" that come on most SUVs are sufficient for most sit on-top kayaks.

My kayaks aren't wet at all. I have the Native Ultimate 14.5. Very dry ride.

My kayak comes with the best set in the business -- hence, no sore butt or back. Plus, you can sit side-saddle. I even stand up in mine.

doubt you could flip my kayak.

Storage is plentiful in my kayak. I can carry a 36-quart cooler in the bow.

As far as storage goes, I have a system in which they're stored on their sides on the wall of my garage. No problem.

Ok, so I take it's between a v shape tube or a toon. I have no space for a kayak and my back is not exactly 100%. I'm still in the process of saving money to get one of the mentioned so I got time to research and look around. I saw a u tube on CL for $ 50 but I will wait so I can get something a bit better.
Thanks TONS ladies and gents.

Why hasn't anyone mentioned a canoe yet?

Money is an issue, maybe that's why nobody did, I can't spend more than a couple of hundred bucks or so. Storage is also a problem.

A store near home carries a Caddis Navigator, it is v shaped and only $ 79.99. Of course, I will also have to spend money on the waders but it's a start.

Sierra Trading Post sometimes has good deals on tubes and toons. Very limited selection (basically, closeouts from manufacturers I think). But I've seen some great deals.

Google "ODC 420"

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Originally Posted by Steve_IA

Google "ODC 420"

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Very popular tube!

Ok, so that means the caddis is not exactly the best.

You are the one who has to define "Best" it may be the best buy but not the top performer. I have noticed that some people don't let price become an object, I think some of these are guides and using equipment almost daily make quality all the more important. Until I make my second million, I have to watch price and I mainly fish when it please me and the weather is decent.

I love my Fishcat LCS 4, it is frameless mini pontoon and weighs about the same as my round tube. That said it cost quite a bit more than my Caddis round tube which has been pretty much trouble free.

I just got back from 2 weeks on lakes and the ODC420 design and ones like it were everywhere. My wife and I have not used our pontoon boats all summer since we bought them. We could put each of our "boats" in the camper filled with air and drive to the next lake, pull them out of the back and go fishing. We did that 10 times in two weeks I think.

Right on! I understand what you are saying. We use to go on trips and be spending 30 minutes to an hour inflating and deflating, putting rods together and so on.
We got smart this year and put the receiver on the back of the camping trailer:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f1...r/IMG_1758.jpg

We were even able to put the rods together with flies so every thing was ready to go. (I take three rods out with me, one with floating, one with a slow sink, and one with a fast sink)
PVC tube on the bottom of the flat bed trailer, lay the rods in and go.
Took us like 5 to 10 minutes to get on the water. BIG difference.

I have all three.

If you can only have one, get yourself a good used canoe.

All the features stated here are somewhat true, but there are exceptions.

Float tubes are great for small, sheltered waters. You don't want to be using one where there are a lot of motor boats, or places where there might be dangerous things in the water, such as in salt water, or in Florida. Your legs sticking out the bottom could become somethings lunch. Currents and tides are also a problem with tubes/pontoons. And, you can't carry much gear.

Kayaks are the ultimate boat. Sit Inside Yaks are virtually unsinkable and indestructable. They can go anywhere, and float in 2" of water. They are the fastest non-powered (non-sailed) watercraft there is. And I don't get very wet in mine. No more than in any other boat. If you may have to travel through any fast water, this is a good boat to have. The only drawback is that they have limited space for a lot of gear, and it's hard to keep what gear you have accessable while your on the water. And Car-Topping isn't necesary always. If you have a truck, or van, you can do like I do, fold down or remove the rear van seats, and just throw it in the back. If it sticks out much, just tie a red piece of cloth on it, and take off. And, I have strapped both my kayak, and my canoe to the top of my Geo Tracker, using just some Wal-Mart straps and a few foam blocks. It works fine. You don't have to have an expensive Thule, unless you just want one. I've also used just plain rope to tie my boat to the car top before. I have't lost one, yet.

Canoes are great fishing boats. They are quiet, reasonably fast, and can hold a lot of gear, and have it accessable while you are on the water. With floatation bags in the front and rear, they are as unsinkable as a kayak, and much easier to get back into in the event of a spill, (but you can, of course, Eskimo roll a Yak, something impossible in a canoe). They can be carried just like a kayak. And you can find used ones for very good prices with a little patience. I would avoid the aluminum ones if possible because I had one, and it was cold, and noisy, and they tend to develop leaks in the seams with age (although it's an easy fix). But if that's all you can afford, it will get the job done. The better ones are made from polymers, and can handle some pretty serious whitewater, although not as manueverable as a yak. My canoe is a Mad River Adventure 15, and I have taken it through Class 5 rapids (accidentally), and made it intact a few times.

With both canoes and kayaks, you can cover many miles easily, something not possible in a float tube. Like I said, if I could only have one boat, it would be a 10'-15' canoe.

I wouldn't even consider a Jon Boat, or those cheezy little 'Bass' Boats that look like a truck-bed with seats. They paddle horribly, are slow, unmanueverable, and noisy. A jon boat has one redeeming quality (other than being able to put a motor on it)...they float in 3" of water.

Happy fishing.

I got the ODC Classic from Creek Company and I really like it. I'll mostly use it on large ponds and things like that, but will occasionally be able to go float a river to.

They say you don't want to use a tube in running water, you could get a foot hung in an underwater obstruction and even a slow moving river will pull you under if you aren't free floating.

But the MAIN thing is which ever you get wear your PFD!!!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

my two cents worth,
hNt

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Originally Posted by hungNtree

I got the ODC Classic from Creek Company and I really like it. I'll mostly use it on large ponds and things like that, but will occasionally be able to go float a river to.

They say you don't want to use a tube in running water, you could get a foot hung in an underwater obstruction and even a slow moving river will pull you under if you aren't free floating.

But the MAIN thing is which ever you get wear your PFD!!!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

my two cents worth,
hNt

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Got anything to do with your handle...:wink::lol:

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Originally Posted by Fly Goddess

Got anything to do with your handle...:wink::lol:

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Nope, so far only flies are hungNtree. :D

Thanks guys. I really value what y'all have to say. I'm still learning tons in here, what a great website.

I am with Gigmaster on this...I too have all 3 and have fished extensively on all of them...I have even been known to push the boundries of common sense with all of them as well so I know to what extreme each will handle...as much as I cant believe I would ever say this, the canoe is the best fishing tool I have ever used...I use it now in Florida...float tubes are out of the question because of the gators and crocs...in Alaska I carried a small potoon kick boat at all times with flippers...most lakes are non motor plus tough to get to anyway...when hiking I would wear it like a back pack..I have even floated the Kenai River in various spots with it...kayaks are sweet and unstoppable but for me not so good because I am 100% sight fisherman so standing full time is the best way right now...they have every possible contraption for them, even outboard motors so there is no limit to them...with the canoe there is nothing to snag your line on and it allows for whatever gear you need or even to take a partner...I stand up full time..in Alaska I would not use a canoe because of the deep lakes and too much work...I certainly would never use it on the rivers up there...I have seen many try and every one without exception has failed in wild flowing water with sweepers etc...I have a pair of 12ft pontoons for that...I guess it boils down to what kind of fishing and also being able to get it there...I drive around Miami now with a 14ft canoe hanging out the back of the truck and a 15ft pushpole tied off to the canoe but again, I am shameless:lol:

With Martin being in So. CA. I am still going with the pontoon.
I have allot of friends in CA that TOON it.

The water I'm planning to fish is a lake so I won't be dealing with current, I might try to be patient and save for a toon but the V shaped float I say is not expensive.

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Originally Posted by Martin McFly

The water I'm planning to fish is a lake so I won't be dealing with current, I might try to be patient and save for a toon but the V shaped float I say is not expensive.

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Check this out (at the bottom) ODC for $150.

http://creekcompany.com/...ay_friday.php?Cat=12

You will need at least waist high, some kind of bootie and flippers. Or there is the LITE on the bottom right, for $30 more you get the flippers and a pump.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martin McFly

The water I'm planning to fish is a lake so I won't be dealing with current, I might try to be patient and save for a toon but the V shaped float I say is not expensive.

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Float tubes are nice. Kickboats-better. You're dragging more with a tube. You have nothing but your legs to get from point a to point b. Kickboats you have your fins, less drag than a tube, you have oars and the ability to put a motor on it. Breaks down small to fit in a SUV or what ever. You go to a lake and observe who's out there and floating in what. You'll see mainly 'toons and a few tubes. When the wind comes up it's harder for a tuber to kick back to shore. Being compact has it's drawbacks.
You get what you pay for and for under $100, what are you getting? I've always had an infinite belief that I don't want to die by drowning so I've stayed away from the vinyl cell bladders. I know it doesn't happen too much, but I've seen the bladders blow and it's generally not a pinhole leak if you get my meaning.
If you go for a toon or tube, I would suggest at least a urethane bladder. It's less prone to shrinkage when put in the water and more forgiving when inflating. It's also easier to patch when you do get a leak. Get the best you can afford. Why not get a used name brand boat locally?
Good luck in your endeavor.

hey Mojo...you are right about the exploding bladders on some...I was fishing one night about 7yrs ago back in Alaska using my pontoon kickboat...all of a sudden BOOM!!!! I thought I had been shot because of the violent splash of water and how loud it was...before you could say "Jack Dempsy" I had barrel rolled in 100ft of water still strapped in...nice and cold water if I might say so...well, I am still here but thats because of my force fins...

That's a hell of a story bone. Glad you were able to make it out ok.
About 10 years ago my brother had a Trout Traps tube that the vinyl bladder blew out. I had already launched (in a kickboat) sitting in the water waiting for him. He launched a few minutes after I did. Luckily he was only about 5' away from shore when it happened. The look on his face was surprise and then shock. No warning, no pop that I recall. He went down fast. It blew right on the seam and was about 4" long if memory serves me right. He was in less than 3' of water. I don't know what would have happened if he would have been out farther. It screwed up his plans for the day, but he shook it off and fished from shore. We didn't feel right about his fishing from shore (soaking wet) so we ended up leaving shortly after that. I think it scared me almost as much as it did him.
All's well that end's well I guess.

The canoe is a great choice and here's another way to configure one:

Solo canoe (mine weighs 32 pounds) with outriggers. I can stand up in it. It's really easy to put on top of the car, I can use a single blade, a double blade or a small motor. Lots of ease of movement compared to a kayak. And I can use it without the outriggers whenever I want a normal canoe. Cheap? Not so much.

Yeah, expensive is an issue right now...

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Originally Posted by Martin McFly

Yeah, expensive is an issue right now...

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one last plug for the canoe...mine was only a little over $400...it is 40 inches wide and unflippable...here is some pictures...I also have a small adjustable height stool for passengers or for myself when I sit to rig up...on calmer days I will actually stand up on the stool and pushpole from elavated stance...also I remain 100% dry

Wow, that is one nice looking conoe...

bonefishwhisperer, what kind of canoe is that? Nice looking canoe.

it is a Indian River...I believe it is the Sportsman model...this is my 2nd one from them...last one was the "Eagle" ...the price is right and they are unsinkable because of foam in front and back molded inside...tunnel hull sucks down tight to the water and its hard to break the suction even lifting it...at 40 inches wide I can actually carefully walk inside and as you can see it has room for whatever...2 rachet tye downs hold it in the truck...I just back up to the water and slide it out fully loaded and ready to go...