“Resting fish” is just a term that is used when fish are being left alone. Not to be taken literally. The heat of summer kills fish when they are stressed by us if we happen to catch them. I did not know it is not an actual law, but regardless of the reason, whether it be the lack of ranger coverage or for the protection of the fish, it is our responsibility to maintain our own integrity. I do not tolerate deviation of policies, laws, and rules. I can’t think of any way to stop the problem of these selfish people. YNP is for everyone and because of that, the numerous fisherman that stop by the park and surrounding areas every year have a big influence on park policies. It would cost the park a lot of exposure and money to close it off for the hot months.
You touched on something Loufly. We went there a couple of years ago because my Husband and Brother in-law have never seen Old Faithfull. It was $20. for us to get into the park as it was for a trail of cars behind and in front of us. The amount of money going through that gate every day has got to be unbelievable.
The YNP traffic is incredible and people follow the leader through out the Park. If there is so much money from entrance fees, WHY does the Park Service say they are having budget problems and can’t afford more staff???
Thanks,
Doug
Two points:
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Fishing closures are administrative rules…they bear the weight of LAW. Federal regulations on federal lands bear the weight of FEDERAL law. They are structured this way so as to allow maximum flexibility of the authorities to manage things, as…yes…actual LAWS take a lot of time and effort to change.
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$20/car to enter a National Park? Holy Cow! :shock:
I’m sure they know what a cash cow they have there at YNP. The problem is that the money they take in there probably goes into the general funds of the park service and then gets redistributed to parks in all the 50 states. The funds they take in there help to offset the parks in other parts of the country that DON’T MAKE MONEY. If they would only look on those that violate fishing regulations as part of that cash cow like a small town looks at a speed trap it might be taken more seriously.
Maybe that should be pointed out to someone higher up the food chain since it’s clear they don’t care about the fish.
Rusty <><
It’s a bargain! Those tourists drive hundreds of miles through the Park and see some of the most beautiful things in the country. Lower Yellowstone Falls Grand Canyon is incredible (200 ft drop) Yellowstone Lake is 25 miles long! Old Faithful Lodge is amazing! The Gibbon River Meadow for flyfishing. The Firehole River, The Lake Hotel is great!
I did learn that it took a few trips to the Park to see the scenery and follow the leader around the Park. Then you can relax, sit in Old Faithful Lodge and take in the wonderful atmosphere.
Doug 
P.S. Can ya tell I love this place? :lol:
Yes, but we commit MILLIONS of dollars from the federal treasury each year to Yellowstone NP. Then there are charitable foundations supporting the park to the tune of millions of dollars per year. And then I still have to pay $20 just to drive through it on a public road? It costs me $4 to use a USACE boat launch, beach, or park around here (per carload). And most folks are complaining about THAT! 
It costs me NOTHING beyond my taxes to use the Mark Twain National Forest.
And…correct me if I’m wrong…but those lodges and hotels have additional charges, right?
Hi All,
Interesting discussion and read. Let me clarify a few things before we go further…
There is NO cell service within YNP. So, calling a hot line is not possible.
The current gate fee is $25 per car and I will gladly pay it every time. There is nothing that will replace an evening traffic jam caused by Buffalo on the road or the mother grizzly bear with 2 cubs! We were downwind and she was blissfully not aware of us watching as she turned over each rock and boulder looking for dinner underneath. Every so often a cub would get in the way and she’d swat them. We must have spent 15 minutes watching her family.
I am certain that some folks were not aware of the closures although the information came with the YNP fishing license (another $15/each). I am also aware of the size of the park and the manpower issues this park faces. It is huge and I do not envy them their problems with enforcement over such a large area! And, this is peak season a few weeks before the kids go back to school.
I have always thought the flyfishers, as a group, were more conservation minded (c&r) and willing to work to protect the fish. If I could say these fishermen were using conventional or spinning rods, maybe I could play elitist. But, the truth is, it was fly fishermen that were fishing illegally. And, there were many of them!
In the earlier part of the day Ken and I fished the Soda Butte as it flowed into the Lamar. There were folks fishing at every bend. When 2:00 PM came along, everyone we saw along that stretch dutifully left the river.
There are plenty of places to fish outside the park that are NOT restricted. We had a great time!
Thanks for feedback. It’s been an interesting read.
regards,
Dianne
Mark Twain National Forest = 1.5 million acres
Yellowstone National Park = 2.2 million acres
Mark Twain Total Visitors 2003 = 699,741
Yellowstone Total Visitors 2006 = 2,870,295
Mark Twain Day Use Pass = $2.00 or $3.00/day or $20/year (per vehicle)
Yellowstone Day Use Pass = $25/week (per vehicle)
Just by way of comparison…MTNF sees about 1 visitor/year per 2 acres under management @ an average of $2 each in usage fees (per day). YNP sees about 2.2 visitors per acre annually for an average of $6 each in usage fees (per day). So that’s $13.60/acre per day for Yellowstone and $1/acre per day for Mark Twain. No wonder Yelllowstone is so nice! Add all the concessions and correlated businesses that rake in about $1.5 billion per year and there’s a LOT of money flowing through Yellowstone. And NONE of that includes the burden born by the total US taxpayer base.
I’m not arguing that Yellowstone isn’t nice…or even “worth it.” It’s gorgeous and wonderful. Just some interesting statistics and comparisons pointing out why I was a bit surprised by the current entrance fees at Yellowstone. FYI, MOST of MTNF has NO entrance fees. These fees are only applicable in the developed recreational facility areas of the NF, which are pretty sparse. Most of it is just rugged wilderness. For example, in my recent column here on FAOL “A Good Kind of Sore,” I was fishing in the Ozarks National Scenic Riverways section of the MTNF. I paid $6/night for a tent campsite and NOTHING in usage fees to fish the rivers, hike the trails, or go sit in the lodge at Montauk State Park (right on the border) to enjoy the air conditioning. I did, however, have to pay a couple of bucks for my breakfast at the lodge.
Oh! And cell phone coverage in the MTNF is spotty, but ranges from excellent to none.
Dear Dianne,
I don’t fish for trout when the weather precludes their safe handling and care, if I’m uncomfortable I know they are uncomfortable and leave them alone. I don’t fish for trout around here when the weather is miserable and I will not do it anywhere else.
I’m sure I would be highly disappointed if I took a vacation and flew or drove 2400 miles across the country to find that I couldn’t fish but that is life and I’d respect the rules and act accordingly. I’m nothing if not law abiding.
I will say that I’d never schedule a vacation out West for the dog days of summer though. I’ve fished in Wyoming, Utah, and Colorado about 6 or 7 times and I never went between July 4th and September 25th. I’d rather fish BWO’s during a snow squall than sweat my butt off anyday. :lol:
Regards,
Tim Murphy
I’m sure the Mark Twain National Forest is a fine place to visit, but Yellowstone National Park speaks for it’s self in the statistics.
Yellowstone is in the northwest corner of Wyoming, more than 1,000 miles from where I live. That means that it is even further away from folks in Washington St. and California and I don’t know how far it is from you and the eastern U.S., so no one is twisting anyone’s arm to go there. God blessed this Park with heavenly things and anyone who has flyfished Yellowstone knows that it is a dream come true!
It kind of blows the idea that it’s all about catching fish, out of the water!
It’s also the craziest place I have ever flyfished, when I would be fishing the Firehole River, no one fishing with me and hundreds of cars driving by on their way to Old Faithful.
Kinda made me feel strange!
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Ma … stone+Park Enlarge Green Map.
Doug
Tim,
The weather in MT was mid 80’s with no humidity the week we were there. Evening temps were in the 60’s except when we were in the mountains and then it was downright cold! Drove up the Beartooth Highway to the alpine lakes and saw what little snow is left in the mountains.
The issue in Montana is the long-term drought (9th year) and a very warm winter. There was not much snow pack to melt. That means there will be even less water if you go in September because of the irrigation that is necessary to sustain crops and continues to draw down the water levels. They don’t expect to get much rain over the next month or so and what little they’ve had barely knocked down the dust.
This is our 3rd August trip and the first we’ve seen fishing restrictions. The fish we caught in the Soda Butte were fat and healthy. The water was very cold in this area.
No, we didn’t fish any of the “warm” water. There are plenty of cold mountain streams with a nice population of browns and rainbows.
We left the fish unharmed.
Dianne
I too saw people fishing during the closures while in the Park in July. Don’t know why they felt they needed to but always someone who will do things the way they think is OK. Mentioned it to several fisherman, and they blew us off. Also saw a lot of people bait fishing everywhere in YNP and Montana in FF only water. Need to follow the rules, but more importantly our own ethics. JIM C
I just visited a state park in Mo. (Montauk) You can fish from 7am to 8pm. What bothered me was the spin fishers
fishing the ff only part of the stream. This was happening everywhere. I did not advise anyone that the area was ff only, I didn’t want to create a bad situation, I was there to have a good time.
If the people at the park don’t know about this, they must never go to ff only stream, because everytime I was on the stream I saw one or two people with spin outfits.
What really bothered me at Montauk was people cleaning their fish and dumping the guts,skin and heads in the stream. In Illinois, you can’t clean at the water. I did ask at the lodge about it and they said–oh, everyone cleans at the stream.
It may be okay for them, but I won’t do it.
Dianne,
Having just read through most of this thread (work is very, very slow here…) you’ve received some fine dialogue. I congratulate you on your trip. Sounds like you two had a fine time out west and I hope my envy doesn’t shine through here…G from this office space.
To answer your orig. question, I’m not too sure what I’d do either. For sure I’d want to “gently” let the offenders know the rules but that’s been covered in replies. Stupid is as stupid does, I guess. Pity, isn’t it!
We go to all that trouble researching where to fish, all that distance and prep. only to find you can’t fling a fly!! That hurts. But…as sports people we need topay attention to the rules as put forth by our DNR. They really do know more than Joe Public knows. We have to trust this!
Yeah, none of the guys I know would dismiss the laws. They’re interested and concerned with the welfare of the fishery too…on the long term basis. Sounds kind of lame to have to say what you already know, that the general public (enough to make a big difference) could give a hoot about the general wlefare of the fish and/or the laws regarding fishing/tresspass/littering etc. and a host of other rules that make this country what it is. It’s like tossing your garbage out in your own back yard. I’ll never understand the mentality…
To summ it up, I don’t believe the punishments are tough enough for offenders of our game laws. And this carries over to other criminal acts too. But we won’t go there.
I don’t have a better answer. All I feel is that we don’t have enough control and money to enforce strict …STRICT…rules and regs. in many areas of our society. It’s up to all of us to act accordingly and that’s not going to happen. That’s a real shame, to the detriment of us all. Like the garbage in your own yard thing…people are sickeningly stupid and selfish.
If I had my choice, I’d gladly pay double…or triple… the fees to ensure these violators get stopped in their tracks, provided that money goes where it’s intended. I don’t think I"m alone here either. None of this should be allowed and if enforcement could manage to get a handle on the problem then it would begin to stop. But it’s not just the law enforcement folk, that won’t do it. It’s John Q. Public that has to take the responsiblity to police himself and teach his kids this same principle so it’s handed down.
It’s not too hard to do. Why??? I’ll never fathom it!
This was a good post. This is what these BB’s are about. To share and let each other know we’re all in this game together and to act responsibly and set the example. I’m “old school”…I don’t think there’s any excuse…none!
Glad to hear you had a great time out there. That’s what this sport is all about!
I really need to go fishing again soon.
Jeremy.
In the Ozarks, this cleaning fish streamside and leaving the offal in the water is considered the RIGHT thing to do by most. It’s an old cultural practice that goes back to the hillbilly days of “waste not, want not.” The remains were left for the critters along the banks and other fish in the stream to eat. I happen to also find it very distasteful. But it is sort of a “when in Rome…” thing.
It’s like litter, you pack it out!, out of respect for the stream.
Doug
[quote=“DShock”]
It’s like litter, you pack it out!, out of respect for the stream.
Doug[/quote]
Dshock, the folks around here…including many of the wildlife managers…will argue that it is more ecologically sound and beneficial to the fishery to leave the offal for the following reasons:
- Keeps critters along the stream and out of the campgrounds, resorts, and yards near trash receptacles.
- Gives the fish more biomass to eat.
- Gives the scavengers stuff to eat.
- Gives the predators EASIER stuff to eat than if they have to catch live fish…thus reducing predation of game fish.
- Prevents that nasty smell in the parking lots, campgrounds, resorts, and yards of homes near trash containers.
It is a compelling argument that has always carried the day in Missouri. But I also suspect that banks littered with carcasses also ATTRACT MORE predators than would otherwise be there. So I’m not so sure of the net ecological gain vs. loss proposition with regard to predators. And it makes the fisheries smell and look nasty. But it sure does give you a lot more uses for white yarn and dubbing material! LOL
For starters the water closures have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with budget cuts. What rubbish. Only select waters are closed and far more waters remain open than closed in the park with the restrictions.
As far as the resting time goes, as mentioned that term is not what it sounds. The waters do need to be closed that get too warm as these fish have a short season for building the needed fat to withstand the harsh winters so when the water is not frozen, they strap on the feed bag and eat, even in warm waters. Hooking and fighting a fish in real warm water simply exhausts the fish and they easily die from the stress.
As for for SW Ladyfish’s post it is sad when “anglers” don’t familiarize themselves with the current regulations. I just returned from 13 days in SW MT and NW WY, including several day in YNP. I drove over 1000 miles around the park with my kids and we never saw a single angler fishing during the closure. We did see anglers fishing the Gibbon, the Gardiner and the Soda Butte after 2:00pm however they were fishing in parts of those streams that were not covered by the closures. It was hard to understand why anglers would stack up on the Gibbon in the meadows above Gibbon Falls after 2:00pm when there are far better waters to fish and not have to contend with the crowds. Odd indeed.
I fished a few days and did OK but the warm weather did have the fish a bit off in areas. Despite the heat and low water levels I was rained on every single one of the 13 days I was in the area. Most days were a passing shower but 3 days were heavy soaking rains which was nice to see.
After talking to some anglers it was obvious that those that might have been breaking the closure rules just didn’t know any better. I met several who had no idea how to tell a Rainbow from a Cutt. I stuck to the cold waters for the most part and did well at those locations, including a great day on Grebe.
If I had seen someone breaking the rules I would have walked up and politely informed them of the closure instead of watching them. I agree that the Ranger’s have far more pressing issues to handle other than fishing closure enforcement but it would have been nice to see one out on the water.
As for the entry fee, $25 is a real bargain. I paid it twice as my entries were spread over 8 days and had no issue with that. It’s an amazing place that does unfortunately have far too many stupid people approaching animals, causing traffic jams and leaving litter on the roads and the rivers.
Thanks Jeff, bang on, as always.