i did not write this ,This is a post from a different site and i would like to hear the FAOL community"s thought’s on this.
Fly swaps… the reality?
Although I do not know exactly how they work, it was alway my assumption that the swaps were sick, original, fish tested and fisher-person approved patterns. From reading the text from the past few swaps and talking to others about these, it seems that you can send in crappy tied standards that don’t work and its accepted? I was kinda disappointed in reading/hearing that. I was actually looking forward to the day I felt skilled enough to do one. I felt that there was no way I was entering in swaps with guys like Cheech, Nightfish, Grizz, UFG, Marty, Wildnative, MFRW, Joni, The Doc, Mr. Fry, Improv, many I do not know, etc etc etc. My skills just aren’t there yet. Not to down play anyone or take the fun out of tying, swaps or learning, it just seems its waisting skilled tiers time and probably keeping some serious players from getting involved. I mean where are the skilled old guru’s that love to tie with fishy patterns, the ones that visit this site but don’t do the swaps or participate but read it every day. For example, why don’t guys like Buddy Knight, Dennis Brakke, Mike Andreas, L. Tullis, the entire Jedi Master crew that hangs at Fish Tech, etc etc etc do any swaps. Ya, ya… the time factor, burnt out or they’re sick of them but I think that’s not entirely the case.
I think that swaps should benefit everyone not just those that suck at tying.
My suggestion would be swaps that fit the skill level.
Greenhorn –> swap is for new tiers, generic flies OK.
Second String –> Graduated from GH status.
First string –> NO generic flies, must have credentials.
Masters –> The guru’s found here… fishy flies, fishy dudes and gals.
Ya know, I didn’t recognize any of those names in the second list. I doubt anyone worries too much about the quality of the flies in the swap. I have received swap flies that were beautiful works of art that people obviously spent lots of time on. And I have received flies that wouldn’t make the cover of a magazine. They were all worthy flies. My flies, after 30 years and that many thousand flies at least, are not works of art, but they catch fish and I am not afraid to show em to others who share my passion for fishing.
It has not been my experience that famous people tie flies any better than nonfamous people. They just have better marketing. Guess I am not a Jedi Master.
PS if you are the swapmeister, you can make up any guidelines you want. Don’t expect to force that on anyone else’s swap, tho.
Why would you assume swaps only help those who suck at tying? I’ve been involved in swaps for about three years and have slowed down my participation because of time constraints. Also, the four classes of tiers you recommend … how does a person know when they’ve moved from 1 to 2, or 2 to 3 etc? If I submitted my best fly to you ( or someone else) you might think I’m closely akin to a greenhorn but to others they may deem my fly as coming from the third class. Such classification reeks of arrogance. These are only my thoughts and not intended to flame. All of the swaps in which I’ve participated have helped me. Some of the flies were seemingly tied better than others. We all start somewhere, and the swaps strengthen the learning curves of those who are just beginning. If you are afraid you will get alot of bad flies then don’t participate. My experience on this Board is the open invitation to all level of tiers to join the swap.
ben,
Just a thought. It might have been better to ID the person who wrote the Post, write “Quote” at the beginning and “End Quote” That way you aren’t liable for any flack.
Doug
The original poster can solve his worries very simply. Only get involved in swaps with himself. Then the flies will always be up to his standards. :rolleyes:
OK SO FOR THE RECORD I DO NOT AGREE WITH THAT POST ONE BIT. WHEN I READ THAT POST IT PISSED ME OFF. The reason i use FAOL is because that type of attitude is not present. I am here because i am obsessed with fly fishing ,and enjoy meeting and learning from others who share the same obsession. Not to draw lines in the sand. I do swaps because i love to sit at my vise and think about fishing, and i enjoy seeing the flies i get in return. I hate to think that i could be judged and excluded due to ones opinion. I HOPE I DIDNT OFFEND ANYONE I JUST WANTED OTHERS OPINION’S. thanks ben.
I have been in several myseld including right now…I have learned that it is a chance to do your best for other people to enjoy and use…the reality is I received some of outstanding design and quality…others were useless…you must just assume its a gift from you to the others and they have done their best…I usually lose out bigtime but I still do them every so often but now I am mainly saltwater so there is much less salt swaps…there were shining moment also…a beginner in every way did her best and was very scared and embarressed by her effort…I got my largest snook last year with her fly and I posted it and she is pushing forward still and the last fly I got was noticably improved…so there are happy ending too…heres where I think they suck the worse, nobody yet seems to be able to keep their word on getting them in on time…to me this is frustrating at best but also very inconsiderate to people like me who had to purposly make time to do them and make special allowances to mail them on time…there is NO excuse, PERIOD…usually there is 3 to 6 weeks to send in a dozen…this has turned my personal feeling sour towards once considered friends because thats a quality I simply cant accept…all this being said I will still keep doing them…right now the flys are 12 days late and still havent been sent out and we are talking 8 flys…who wants to meister the next one? I never have been in one on this forum yet
Simply put, I disagree with the quote. I’ve hosted swaps (have one in progress now), and I’ve participated as a swapper. As a host I can create my own ‘theme’ and if enough people want to participate the swap will take place. As a lurker, I can see what swaps have been announced and decide if I like the ‘theme’. If I do, then I may sign up. I should mention that I’ve seen swaps for ‘Beginners’ too.
And yes, I understand the quote was someone elses and you’re just asking for opinions.
The reality is that fly swaps are like a box of chocolates:P
The reality is swaps are about having fun and sharing. Sometimes they require creativity and may take the tyer completely out of his/her comfort zone. Swaps can be a means to display the efforts of a new skill you spent the winter trying to master. They can also be an opportunity to send out some patterns you simply love to tie or fish…or a newer creation that you would like others to try on their favorite waters. And swaps will always serve as way to pass cold nights or to escape from reality for a bit.
If a would-be participant is hesitant to join a swap for fear of not getting flies that are up to his/her standards, he/she shouldn’t join. What’s the point in playing if you’re too concerned about the disappointment factor. Tie for your own use and put the negative energy to better use.
Some may welcome a ratings system (even with all the issues it would create), while others would see it as less-than-inviting…just another way to subcategorize members and limit participation. In the meantime, the hesitant swapper should recognize that participants will have varying levels of skill and experience. Some may be novices with evolving skills and tons of enthusiasm. Others will be very accomplished, and you might find their flies too “perfect” to fish. That’s the surprise factor, another reason why swappers participate.
In short, if you are searching for disappointment, life will reward you over and over.
I am confused as to what are generic patterns vs flies withcredentials? I doubt the creator of that post knows either.
OK, here’s my opinion. Stay away from any website that smacks of elitism and chest thumping to the detriment of the other posters. When there are people dominating a website to the point that other posters feel inferior and are afraid of fully participating in the activities of the site because they do not “measure up,” it’s time to leave that site and shake the dust from your feet on the way out. I have been on sites like that and I can tell you that after going back at 6 months and 12 months, the same chest thumpers are dominating the site and there is no free exchange of ideas and information like you find here on FAOL.
I have entered a few swaps here because I WANTED to participate, not because I was any better than anyone else, and certainly have never been made to feel inferior. I’m an average tier and have been very fortunate to receive a lot of excellent flies from some very talented people on this site. It’s by participating in swaps and tying patterns repetitively that we become better tiers. I would consider each swap I’ve been in to be an educational experience.
ben ,
i know that wasn’t your quote so this is just a comment on the quote! we ask ourselves why our sport/art/pleasure is not growing and then i read things like this…hmmmm i wonder why lol. i’d rather have a “crappy” fly tied by someone who put there heart and soul into it than a fly tied by an “expert” who can knock them out blindfolded any day. i know i stick at tying but i’m trying to get better. the kind people here allow me to join in their swaps and its helping me a lot. nobody has ever made me feel inferior though i know my skills are.
I’ve been in a few swaps on this board and my thoughts on this are as follows: I’ve never worried much about what I was getting. I focused and concentrated my efforts on what I was tying and tried to make sure what I was giving was my best possible tie. I doubt if any were perfect but they were my best. I received every fly with the same measure of respect. Regardless of the fly received, I looked at it as the best effort of the person sending it. I don’t think I want the stress of having to place myself or my tying in a category based on some perception of skill or other criteria. I tie what I like and fish what I tie. I’ll entry the swaps I’m interested in and life will go on. To do otherwise would simply take the fun out of it.
I host a lot of swaps, but only here on FAOL. The purpose of the swaps for me is to get some new ideas on materials, patterns, and styles, and to tie some new patterns for practice. Some of the flies are simply amazing, others are obviously a new tyers attempt. In any case, I’ll bet they catch fish. I look back at my early entries, and just shake my head. Sorry to everyone involved in those. But my tying has improved, and the swaps give me a lot a practice that I wouldn’t have got otherwise. Anyone looking for “show quality” flies is probably looking at the wrong venue unless the swap specifies that up front. If anyone is wondering whether or not to participate, try one or 2 out. Don’t be shy and you’ll be amazed how your skills will improve.
Yeah Ben that is an interesting post, I think I know what he is talking about. It is not something I have experienced though. I have seen many “beginners swaps” and the like so somebody with limited expertise should be able to feel encouraged to participate.
I for one like anybody to feel free to contribute, as long as they are mature enough to accept some constructive comments from the others. I hate it when everybody just says to me “Wow” type comments when I really want some constructive feedback.
My beef with a lot of swaps and the reason I don’t do too many, is because I end up getting a heap of flies I didn’t want - as in people don’t stick to the instructions. What I mean is like in an “Adams” swap some guys ended up doing a crawfish pattern, one was a streamer, and a couple of nymphs even. I wanted some Adams to compare peoples styles, nothing else! The others end up in the bin, so that is a waste of someones effort and money.
—sagefisher—