Yak or Toon?

Fishing Warm water Forum
1

As I get older, I can stand less and less time in the canoe. I have a Tube and use it but am limited in mobility with it. So I’m trying to decide if this spring I get a kayak or a Personal Pontoon. Both would alleviate the lower back problem I am experiencing with the canoe but I wonder which would be more useful ???

While I have spent some time in a kayak I have never been in a PP (personal pontoon). The added height of a toon would make fly casting easier but would also subject me to more effects of the wind, while the low position of the yak gets me out of the wind somewhat but puts me in a tougher position to “keepeth my backcast upeth”. I have considered the oars/paddle also. With the PP all one has to do is drop the oars (assuming they are somehow affixed to the oarlocks) while in the yak, the paddle has to be stowed somehow to fish.
I am sure there are considerations that have not even crossed my mind but I am relying on the collective wisdom of the Bulletin Board to help me make my choice.

Comments???

Clint ( in the the land of the flat waters )

2

Bluegill Budd- Hmmm… You bring a good argument. If you ask me it’s a matter of personal preference. I’m more comfortable in a kayak, because I’m farmilliar with them though. I also have never used a PP. I don’t know what to tell ya.
-Fly_Fisher_12

3

I use a Hobie Float Cat ['toon] but have never used a kayak. I do know it’s easy to fish out of the Hobie; just fin along and cast when you want to. Easy to turn. Actually one of the better presentions with the 'toon is to actually “troll” as you move from one area to the next. You also have the oars for moving greater distances altho you will not have the range of a kayak. You can mount a rod holder on the 'toon and troll while using the oars. If wind is a problem and you want to hold in place you can rig up an anchor system.

I also have a 12’ pram with electric motor but like the Hobie for the additional presentions I can use with it.

Hope this doesn’t confuse more.

Donald

4

Since you already have a canoe, why not just get one of those padded (cushion) seats with the fold up/down backs? I know they make the metal crossbar seats that the folding seat can fit onto.

I have a Creek Company ODC 816 pontoon catamaran that I like a lot with the old style padded seat (the new ones have plastic seats that I don’t like). I also know that yaks can have folding padded/cushion seats. I don’t know about yaks but the cat is very stable and very portable. It also has a lifetime guarantee on non-metal parts like the pontoons and seat. It probably does not row as well as a rigid craft in calmer waters like a yak unless I had rigid pontoons but it gets me where I want to go and it doesn’t take up a lot of space. Its personal preference so I guess it boils down to what works best for you. Best of luck.

Robert B. McCorquodale
Sebring, FL

“Flip a fly”

[This message has been edited by dixieangler (edited 16 August 2005).]

5

Clint,

You are one year older than me and I know where you are coming from with the canoe. I used one for several years and now own a Hobie Cat 75 and really enjoy it. It only weighs 33 pounds, fits inside my Mazda B3000 pick-up truck which has a cap on it and is very comfortable to fish out of all day. I have added an anchor system and use the oars to go from one fishing hole to the next. It rows very easily even against the current. I removed the soft foam seat and back and installed a padded vinyl seat with folding back plus mounted it on a swivel which really makes it easier to turn around to reach the cooler or fish from the side. The pontoons are polyethylene which means no pump or worrying about a bladder over inflating in hot weather or traveling higher altitudes. Just my opinions on this subject

Warren

6

Two observations:

  1. You can get a seat backrest for a canoe seat which might alleviate some of your canoeing back pain

  2. If you need to go any distance chose a kayak. The effort is much less in a kayak than a 'toon.

jed

[This message has been edited by Jed (edited 17 August 2005).]

7

i like the kayak b/c of its ease of transport and manueverability. Also, I fish alone often, I can put in, paddle upstream, then float back in many cases. it has paddle clips on either side, or I lay it across my lap when fishing. No air bladders to worry about busting either.

8

Gill Budd, RW here,

I’m 69 and still going strong with my canoes. How come by now you have never used a clamp on seat with back rest?

If you’re used to fishing from a canoe you wouldn’t like a belly boat for all your fishing…trust me on that. A toon won’t help loading time or the impracticle aspects of loading and unloading in particular vehilces as you get older, especially if you fish alone a lot. A yak will just put you lower to the water. My son has yaks, and I tried fishing from one. After 45 years in canoes I didn’t like it. If you are used to fishing with a canoe and hate to give em up then don’t. Use the applications (seats with backs, etc.) that are readily available.
I do.

Later, RW

“We fish for pleasure; I for mine, you for yours.” -James Leisenring on fishing the wet fly-

[This message has been edited by Royal Wulff (edited 17 August 2005).]

9

RW, and others,
In my youth I was a semi-serious canoeist. I have never felt comfortable sitting on a seat in a canoe. It is too high and “tippy”. I have always knealt but that puts too much strain on my lower back. I have seen the seats that rest in the bottom of a canoe and have considered them, but I would have to paddle kneeling and then change position to fish. Not a good option I figure.

As far a a toob goes, I have one and use it. I have no problem with my back using it, just the lack of ability to cover greater distances with it. There is one cove on Johnathon Creek on Kentucky Lake that is shallow enough that I drive the Bass Boat Boys nuts when I fin up into the end of the creek channel and bust LMBs on poppers and rubber spiders when they are trying to work the drops 100 yards out and doing zilch. What fun!!

Clint

10

Kayaks/Tubes/Pontoons

I just got back from a trip down into New England where I spent most of 13 days fishing from my float tube. They are definitely a poor man’s bass boat. With a flip of the fin you can swivel just like in a bass boat fishing chair. You can slow troll more efficiently than any gasoline motor. You have the silent approach of an electric and when you want to move you can propel the tube pretty much the same speed as a solo canoeist.

I have also done a lot of fishing from my canoe and my kayak. The main advantage of the canoe is the amount of interior space. Even though I lose all the space convenience I prefer to fish from my solo cockpit style kayak. This craft is much lighter, far more manoeverable and doesn’t get blown around like a canoe. It also moves twice as fast over the water and with a rod holder or the rod handle sitting in your lap can slow troll with hardly any paddling effort whatsoever.

While on my trip I had the opportunity to paddle an open cockpit kayak. It was A Wilderness Systems “Pungo”. This kayak would be an excellent fishing vessel. It gives you much more canoe like convenience with its open cockpit. Lots of space for fishing gear, a cooler etc. This kayak tracks really well on flatwater and would be a joy to fish from compared to my small cockpit vessel. As one of the other fellows mentioned you can also paddle effectively upstream in a kayak. If I had to choose one craft for fishing it would be one of the modern open cockpit kayaks. You can even get in and out of them like a canoe. These kayaks were observed on top of vehicles in a ratio of 10 to one over canoes on our journey home to Canada. They seem to be very popular and now, having paddled one, I can see why.

“…whatever is true,whatever is noble,whatever is right,whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable–if anything is excellent or praiseworthy–think about such things.”

[This message has been edited by speck (edited 17 August 2005).]

11

yak yak yak!!!

12

yuk yuk yuk

I mean yak yak yak. I have one and love it. Also have a u tube and enjoy fishing from that as well.

Before I bought my yak, I had seriously considered getting a toon. The main drawback I saw was not being able to efficiently cover great distances, especially when paddleing up river. So I went with the yak and haven’t looked back.

13

Hey Clint,

I have long had problems with my lower
back as well. When canoeing, I often like
to pull into the bank and walk about a bit
and do a few stretching exercises for the
back.

Kayaking on the other hand does not seem
to present the same problems for me. But
realizing the possible problem, I took it
into consideration when selecting a kayak.
I went with the Walden Adirondack. It’s a
fair sized boat of the recreational class
that easily handles my weight. It has a
very roomy cockpit which enables me to change leg position at will. And mostly it
has one of the best designed seats offered
IMHO. The seat has excellent back support
and is fully adjustable 3 ways from Sunday.
I find that lengthy paddle trips are no
longer problematic for me. Another great
feature of this craft was the price. It
did not break the bank.G Nothing will
replace “trying before you buy”, but I would
recommend the Adirondack as one to try.
Warm regards, Jim

14

Two more observations:

  1. A kayak is not as good as a canoe and never will be for fishing. Canoes are higher up and with lots more room and ability to move around. It is what you loose to gain the size and weight benefits from a kayak.

  2. A Wilderness Systems Pungo comes with a Phase III seat that adjusts for cushion firmness, cushion angle, back angle and back rest height. It is by far the best seat I have seen, especially for those of us with less than perfect backs.

jed

15

I have back pain (can’t walk from my desk to my truck without my foot going numb) and I kayak fish. Kayaking seems to be actually be therapuetic for me.

If you buy a kayak, buy the best seat you can afford.

Here is an article for folks starting out…

[url=http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050807/SPORTS05/508070317/1022/sports05:754d3]Kayak Fishing Article[/url:754d3]

Good Luck,

-Phil

[This message has been edited by BassYakker (edited 18 August 2005).]

16

Clint

While I do not recommend buying a yak before trying several, if there are no shops in your area, you might want to get in touch with the yak folks who are a sponsor here on FAOL.

Just a thought.

Dave

17

Bud,

Does your back pain flare up WHILE you are in the canoe, or does it hurt you all the time?

If it happens only in the canoe, then the cause might be that you own a canoe that’s too heavy. Your paddles might be too heavy as well.

It’s sad, but one of the nation’s best-selling canoes is a clunky plastic affair with metal tube bracing (aka “Texas Beer Cooler With Indoor Plumbing”). Off the rack one of these beasts will weigh 100-plus pounds. If you are getting older – and even if you were getting younger – you have no business humping a canoe that heavy on your shoulders.

If you have the means, I suggest getting yourself a lightweight solo canoe made of Kevlar. There are also lightweight Royalex solo canoes available. By lightweight, I mean from 24 lbs up to 45 lbs.

Likewise, most canoeists at one time or another will buy a paddle constructed with an aluminum shaft and a heavy plastic blade. You can wear yourself slick using one of these war clubs. A better choice that’s much easier on your body is a carbon-graphite foam core paddle in “bent shaft” style. Using a paddle that weighs just 8 or 10 ounces turns paddling into something more akin to a video game; there’s no sensation of paddle weight in your hands whatsoever, yet the boat moves nicely along.

Last, even though you paddle your canoe from the kneeling position (best for stability and control) does your canoe have kneeling pads? If not, then your back may be hurting because you unconsciously put your torso in wierd positions just to relieve the pain in your knees and ankles.

If that’s going on, then I suggest you buy an old Army surplus green closed cell foam sleeping pad. Cut out some squares or rectangles that are large enough to cover the areas where your knees and feet make contact with the boat, then glue those pieces in position using Weldwood Cement.

Having a lightweight canoe and main paddle (the backup paddle can be any old thing) plus outfitting your canoe to make it as cushy as possible, those things will minimize back pain, or in your case possibly make it go away entirely.

BTW, do you remain aware of your back pain when a fish is on? If not, the cause of that is adrenaline. All the more reason to keep fishing, right?

Joe

“Better small than not at all.”

18

If you want to cover more water definately go with the yak. I have a Old town discovery canoe with oar locks that rows easily and fast but I can not cover nearly as much water as I can with my kayak or as fast. On small ponds I prefer the canoe because of the room and stability. I can stand and cast in the canoe but don’t dare in the yak. I have never rolled a canoe but have rolled a yak. In the spring the only man powered boat that I can keep enough speed in while trolling for LL salmon is my kayak and it is so easy to paddle that I can do it all day. I have a rod holder just behind my seat so that trolling doesn’t interfere with paddling.

If boat weight is an issue a small hand trailer is easy to build or buy. I have one with knobby air filled tires that I use with my yak and canoe to pull it down bike paths and marshes to get to the water with all my gear in my yak or canoe.

If you are worried about stowing your paddle when you hook into a fish attach a lanyard to it and the kayak or yourself so you can just throw the paddle into the water for the hookup and it won’t float away so it can easily be retrieved.

I have never tried a tube or pontoon so I can’t say if they are better.

Who has time for stress when there are fish to catch.
Nick

19

I have fished from both a canoe and a kayak and I prefer the kayak. I use the Hobie Mirage Outback which has a removable pedal/flippers devise that works great. It keeps your hands free for fishing, is super quiet and really moves when you want to cover any distance. It is the best personal water craft I’ve ever used, hands down (no pun intended). It’s super easy to pedal and steer and at age 55, I’ve experienced no back pain at all. I use it now about 4-5 evenings per week since moving to a house on a very nice 50 acre lake I strongly recommend this kayak and suggest you look it over before you make your final decision.

Jim Smith

20

I am 67 and have had back problems for years. I toured and fished from a kayak and after awhile I would have problems with my legs and back. I fish mostly alone and being in a kayak in back country in deep water and swampy banks can be dangerous.

I bought a 15’ 4" Gheenoe High Sider with a 44" beam and put a small outboard on the square stern and now go long distances in the shallow back country where no bass boats go. I position the boat for casting with a kayak paddle and it responds canoe-like. I anchor it with a 3 lb little anchor. When my back gets stiff, I stand up and fish. I transport it on an aluminum trailer and can launch it without back strain. Not bad if you want to go fairly long distances and still have maneuverablitiy while fishing. The Gheenoe weighs 120 lbs and the motor 55 lbs. and two people can fish at the same time.

It might not be a good option for ponds, but it does well in small creeks, swamps and bayous. Tom