I’m currently working on a flyrod built on a Forecast F764-5 blank that I recently picked up at Hook and Hackle. I’m at the point of wrapping it and have a question.
I’ve only built 3 rods up to now so I’m certainly still new to all this. Since I wrap the guides by hand (no power wrapper) I find it difficult to get the wraps tightly packed so I’ve gotten into the habit of just wrapping 5-8 turns and then manually packing the threads by sliding them together using my thumb or fingernail, wrapping another 5-8 turns and then packing the threads, etc. until the wrap is complete.
Is this a common way to do this for you “hand wrappers” or do you spend the time trying to wrap each turn as tightly as possible to the previous wrap? I’m not necessarily unhappy with my wrap jobs so far but figure anything I can do to improve it makes sense to try.
Any other techniques to achieving a decent wrap? I tried burnishing the wraps on my first rod but I had 3 or 4 wraps pull apart when I rubbed them so I’m reluctant to try that again.
I like you steve use a hand wraper. That is how I tighten my wraps as well. I have a thread tensioner so the thread is going on tight and most of the time I don’t have to pack just choose to do so. I make sure my thread is angled back towards where I started and then spin the rod. About every 5-8 turns I slide my fingernail against them just to make sure they are tight as I am turning the rod. As time goes on you will get faster at it if that is what you desire. If you have locked down the thread good you can burnish the wraps with no problem It sounds like the thread was not locked down good. I use a tribal polyester thread I use for furled leaders to make my loops to pull the thread through. I make these about 4 inches long and that way I can use as many wraps as I want to lock the thread in. Most times it is just 10 to 15 wraps but at ties it can be more. Then after I pull the thread through I pack one last time with my fingernail and pull on the tag end at the same time. After I am through I pull tight on the tag end and cut it with a razor knife. Then I burnish the wrap. Hope this helps.
I wrap professionally and have for over 20 years. Although I do own a power wrapper, it gathers dust … I still wrap 99% of my rods by hand. Wrapping by hand allow better control and finer work, IMO.
One thing and one thing only will improve your wraps/packing … practice.
As noted above, keep about a 5 degree angle so the thread wants to naturally pack and nudge when needed. It will all come together for you and become easier, just keep at it.
Harleybob: If I might sir, instead of cutting and pasting your post I’ll just quote you as the method I used was word for word as you describe with the exception on the thread part. I always used Gudebrode that required CP if I desired it and yes …IMO…Id say his thread tension isnt tight enough
I used my thumbnails and also a Gudebrode teflon burnisher / thread packer
my apologizes. I made it a little confusing I use the tribal polyester thread to form the loops to pull the thread through only. I use the Gudebrode to wrap the the guides etc.
I apologize I made it a little confusing I use the Gudebrode thread no cp to wrap the guides and I use the tribal to form the loops to pull the thread through. It is increadable strong and will not break after several rods. regular Gudebrode tends to break if you have more then 10 wraps over it when you are pulling through. I tried wire and that cut the thread, heavy mono seemed to leave ungodly gaps so I tried the tribal and it was fantastic. I have thousands of yards of it and it was cheap at wally world. It makes a great furled leader as well.
Like Jim I’ve wrapped hundereds of rods. I save the power wrapper for thse big butt surf rods that get size E thread.
For the other rods I have gotten in the habit of actually running my thumbnail against the thread as it hits the blank. It automatically packs the threads. Everyone knows when I’ve been wrapping as there is a slight divit in the edge of my nail.
Hi Steve… I’m chiming in only because you probably want to hear from a few guys…
I’m not a pro, but I’ve wrapped quite a few rods. I pretty much use the same methods as H-Bob does. I have a wrapping outfit I built, and two thread tensioners I built into it so I can have two colors going. I put together a spring loaded adjustable drag on the thread spool holders, and I turn things by hand… I’ve fashioned a couple thread packers, but nearly always use a thumbnail every so many wraps. I’d rather go slow and get the details just right. I’ve been encouraged to set up a power wrapper, but at this point, I think that would just get me in trouble…I build things for a living, on the side, and as a hobby & pastime. I just about always prefer to go slow, do it the old way, and by hand
…Happy Rodbuilding…ModocDan
It is amazing to me how many little tidbits come up with this forum.
I wrap the same way these guys have mentioned and burnish the thread, but I have had a few wraps come loose at the tag end. It is aggravating to say the least. I have wrapped a total of 4 rods and am almost ready to wrap #5 and #6, so I am still devising new ways to mess things up.
I have been using loops of the wrapping thread or a really neet, long metal needle threader to pull the tag end through. Neither is really satisfactory. The wrapping thread loops want to break on me, or cut the tag. (The wraps are tight!) The metal threader will sometimes cut the tag off short where it is hard to get a grip on it to trim it.
So, what is this “tribal” polyester thread and where do I find it? Would a bit of mono work? How about the little mono “threaders” for dental floss? For that matter, what about dental floss? This is undoubtedly the thing that gives me more trouble with wrapping than anything else.
Often I used loops of mono…short sections of leader material as my “pull loop”. If your breaking leader loops of “about” say 4X material…you got your thread wraps TOO tight.
I used a flexible arm light above my wrapper…and on the top of the light “shield”…??..I took a piece of masking tape…made a loop of it…and then stuck that loop on the light shield and flattened it down. Now…having a section of “sticky” right at hand…Id stick my pull loops right there so they were always right at hand but never in the way
IMO, the very best pull loops in the industry are made by Backlash Tools (use Google to locate). Although it isn’t necessary to have store bought - they work VERY well and hold up for a long time.
I like the 2lb diameter / 8lb braid. One loop will do a ton of wraps. Recommend adding beads or other “handle” to the ends for pulling. Lot easier on the fingers.
tribal is a thread that can be bought at wallmart with a breaking strength of about 10 pounds. I use it cause it was on hand and I like it better then mono. as previously mentioned you can buy tools or even make them
Like Walnutshoe, I use braided SpiderWire fishing line for the pull through loops.
The ‘super lines’ are VERY slick, so they help the thread slide through tight wraps easier, and they are very stong for a given diameter.
To save yourself some work and to make the wraps look cleaner, eliminate pulling the tags all the way through and then ‘cutting’ them. Lots of things can go wrong at this ‘step’ (leaving ‘nubs’, accidently cutting the wrap, fraying the tag, etc.). If you trim the tag FIRST so that it will not reach where the pull though loop exits the wrap the tag will be trapped properly, the gap where the pull through exits will burnish closed easier, and the end result will look ‘perfect’ without extra work.
If you are having trouble with the WRAPPING THREAD breaking at pull through, it’s not just do to too tight a wrap. You want to ensure that that the diameter of the PULL THROUGH material you choose to use is LARGER than the diameter of the wrapping thread. If you do this, the thread will not break, as the pull through creates a ‘tunnel’ for it to slide through.
There is a fine line to walk regarding wrap tension. Too tight is worse than too loose (a ‘loose’ wrap may come undone…easily redone…too tight a wrap can damage the blank…hard if not impossible to fix). The wrapping thread should pull through easily with steady pressure…if it doesn’t, you are wrapping too tightly. Remember it is the combination of the QUANTITY of wraps and the rod finish that hold the guide secure…not how ‘tightly’ they are wrapped. Even a ‘loose’ wrap, once ‘finished’ properly, will be stronger than the blank.
First off THANKS for all the replies - I didn’t expect so many but who’s complaining!!
Also, glad to read that so many do the wrapping the old-fashioned way by hand, even those who have those "high-falutin’ power wrappers.
I do use a tensioner for my thread. I was given a wooden wrapping jig when I started on my first rod and it has a moveable platform with 2 spring-loaded tensioners so I can put my spool of thread in and tighten down as desired. that’s the only part of the jig I use though, I just hold the rod in my hand rather than trying to turn it while in the jig.
I remember reading somewhere about cutting the tag end fairly close before pulling thru the wraps but I never remember to do it. I’ll have to try it though as I’ve had more than one wrap come undone when trying to trim the thread close to the wraps.
This rod will be slightly different too in that it’s my first using silk thread rather than nylon. No real reason other than I had silk thread in the color I want (I’m a Buffalo Sabres fan so my dark blue rod is going to have gold wraps which should darken once the finish is applied) I’ve read comments that silk is tough and I should stick with nylon as it’s easier but hey, the rod is for me so why not give it a try right? It’s those little imperfections (ok maybe big ones) that will give the rod it’s charm! Also since I have an old bamboo I’m planning on refinishing I might as well get some practice in with silk before I attempt using varnish too!!
Not keeping it in the cradles on the jig, can give you inconsistent tension on the thread. If you’re holding the blank, the tension is going to loosen and tighten with every wrap as you adjust your grip on it. I’m guessing this could be your tension problem.
Also since I have an old bamboo I’m planning on refinishing I might as well get some practice in with silk before I attempt using varnish too!!