I broke one of my real favorite rods, a Winston BIIx 7wt this fall and sent it in for repair. It had been a gift so I expected to pay for it… and know Winston has a rep for being very fussy about original owners and all…
What I got from them was a very cryptic email with “repair” as the title and nothing recognizable as a source. It took them more than a couple weeks to send it so I had forgotten it and even deleted it before reading because it did not click that it was my rod the repair referred to…
Anyway the email listed three parts: “tip, 1 mid section, butt”
I assumed they were going to replace three sections. There is a pretty good ding on the butt…
They also wanted $132 for the repairs and $50 for shipping. I was not happy but I had been assured Winston would send me back a rod looking better than new…
What I got was a rod where the butt section had not even been cleaned up a bit, a big ding is still obvious down near the base and only the broken tip was replaced.
So I sent an email to give them a chance to explain what happened and if this was standard for Winston CS… They have not bothered to answer my email.
Frankly, Winston just took a monster step down in my mind.They have eliminated any resale value on their rods… I will never buy another, new or used, because there will be no honest resale value. Only an idiot would buy a used Winston with their CS and I could not in good conscience sell one.
The fact they did not even bother to answer my email is plenty for me to shun them…
It is a shame because the rods are very well made and a pleasure to fish.
Sorry to hear that. At the prices they charge, adequate, at the very least, customer service should be a given and exemplary should be expected. Considering all the alternatives on the market, you’d think they’d want to keep their customer base happy. I’ve got a few Sage rods, purchased in the mid-90’s and any time I’ve needed repairs their customer service has been quick, responsive and of the highest quality.
Hap, this isn’t meant in the least as a criticism of you, just a little bit of a “devil’s advocate” stab at a possible explanation. Sure would be nice if you could find the text of that original email, as I suspect that would eliminate at least some of the speculation. 2+ weeks for acknowledgment is annoying to be sure, but the rest doesn’t seem like that much of a stretch once a manufacturer has deemed it a non-warranty repair. $50 for shipping is a joke, but I read all the time now where manufacturers are charging that and more for shipping, “service fees” or some other ridiculous term for charges on even their warranty repairs, including those that were sold years back with warranties that, at the time, had no such provision in them. That last part particularly chafes me, but that’s a topic for another day. So that leaves the $132 charge on yours. If I submitted a rod for repairs that I figured the manufacturer would consider outside their warranty, I would do so with some HOPE that they’d surprise me and say they’d cover it, but with the EXPECTATION that I’d be told I was going to have to pay something for it, and it sounds like that’s what that email outlined for you. I’m guessing you got a replacement tip and maybe something like cleaning/reconditioning the ferrules on two of the other sections, and an estimate of $132 for that, which you presumably could have either accepted or declined. Again, not as great a deal as what I might have hoped for in the best of situations, but about what I could have expected for a $700 rod if it wasn’t a covered repair.
As for the resale value, and again with all due respect, I don’t see what effect this has on that issue. I buy used gear all the time, and I think anybody that buys used rods with the EXPECTATION that they’re going to get warranty service is kidding themselves. If there’s a blank warranty card, I might have higher hopes of getting away with that, but if not, I’m back to the hope vs. expectation thing described above, given that I’m clearly not the original owner. I’m not a Winston apologist, but other than being a little slow with response, I’m having a hard time imagining how this same scenario couldn’t have taken place with any number of other manufacturers.
about what I could have expected for a $700 rod if it wasn’t a covered repair.
I’m having a hard time imagining how this same scenario couldn’t have taken place with any number of other manufacturers.
Recently had a non warranty (no card) tip replacement from Sage. $50. with $12. shipping.
Good deal. Not saying that it doesn’t happen, just that it shouldn’t be expected. Along with stories like hap’s where the manufacturer has charged something for repairs, I’ve heard plenty where a manufacturer has been good enough to make repairs for someone other than the original owner, without questions or charges. In my view, the latter is a bonus, the former should be of no surprise to you if you’re not the warranty holder. I don’t have an axe to grind here and I don’t particularly like feeling like I’m defending a company when I don’t know the details of their position, but I’m a big “two sides to every story” guy and it’s not hard for me to see how this could’ve unfolded and would with other companies as well. As for the reasonableness of that $132, none of us are in a good position to judge that, since we don’t have the benefit of that email and don’t know what (if anything) was done beyond a tip replacement.
Here is a direct cut and paste from the original email:
ROD: 9 7 B2
SERIAL NUMBER: xxxxxxx
TIP:1 MID: BUTT:
OTHER: NOT ORIGINAL OWNER PLEASE EMAIL FOR REPAIR APPROVAL
[FONT=Times New Roman]Cost of Repair: $ 132
Shipping & Handling: $ 50
Total: $ 182
Payment received: $0
Balance due: $182
We have received the above listed rod in our shop for repair. We will begin repairs as soon as possible. Payment arrangements must be made prior to the return of the repaired rod. Authorized dealers will be invoiced at the time of shipment.
So, my take on the list was not an inventory as it is a 4 piece rod. I assumed they were replacing the three listed pieces, or at least doing some serious clean-up to list them as they did. Winston claims rods returned from them “look like new”. It was obvious I would be charged, and while 132+50 is high in my extensive non-warranty repair dealings with GLoomis, Sage, TFO, St. Croix, Penn Int’l, and lots more ( I guided for years and had many rods broken for me, and “some” I did myself) if they were doing major work to three sections it made sense to charge that kind of money.
What I got back was, as stated in the first post, a replaced tip and little to nothing done below… The butt has a chip in the glass of worrisome size.
Beyond that, failing to give me the courtesy of responding to my email is unacceptable.
As to resale value on rods… I will never have anything to do with buying another used Winston. I have run into many that have had similar dealings with what they feel were excessive repair charges. That feeling is becoming more common and it greatly affects resale value on these rods. Take a quick trip through ebay and you will see these rods selling used for significantly less than similar price point rods, used, of other brands.
I have never paid close to 182 previously for rod repairs. And I have had many rods that received far more attention…
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The obvious point here is that I was sending in a rod without warranty for repair. I knew that, expected to be charged; knew in the first email exactly what I was to be charged, and even acknowledged it to them via email. But there were major problems, IMO about how it was handled:
Communication clarity… I give them an F. They did not state what would be done or was done at any point. Their list of parts led me to believe something that was not going to happen. I am guilty of answering the question myself, wrongly, without asking for clarification.
Workmanship… While the tip is fine, their claim of sending back rods that look like new is improper.
Response time… Considering one request for information was never answered and the other was less than timely… another fail…
The way I interpret the email is that they received from you the tip, mid, and butt sections with the above serial number, not that they were intending to repair/replace all three sections. The $132 for replacement of the tip seems high, but I guess that would depend on the cost of the rod. The S/H charge of $50 is outrageous, especially since they are charging what appears to be a premium price for the repair. As to the damage to the butt section, in the future, when you are sending a rod in for repair, I would specifically call out your areas of concern when shipping the rod, assuming that you didn’t.
I agree except for one small detail… They list ONE “mid”… there are TWO in a four-piece rod. I did not assume they lost a section out of the rod, but rather I assumed they were doing work to the specified three sections.
If one buys a rod with a warranty, why should it matter the “original owner” part? The company got their money when the shop bought the rod, before it was sold to you. Why should it matter if the problem occurs to a second, third or eighth owner? Companies with these warranties charge a premium up front for them, and then charge again when one sends them back, in many cases.
Some manufacturers have that in their warranty and they tell you up front. It’s always been Winston’s policy ever since I can remember. Warranteed to the original owner only.
Off the top of my head, only TFO guarantees their rods for anyone… No one should argue that fact… how much they charge and how well they communicate their actions are different questions, however.
Making it plain Winston enforces their policy more stringently and more dearly than anyone else in the industry is simply a public service.
I’m not saying that you don’t have some justification for feeling the way you do. Certainly a lack of response from Winston (either timely or non-existent) does not speak well for them. But here is my take on your email.
If you’ll note, there is a colon after each (and every) item. As such, to me it indicates that one Tip is being repair, but there are no Mid or Butt sections being repaired as nothing follows their colons.
Could this be more clearly explained? Certainly. But I have to admit that you received back exactly what Winston indicated that they would repair, and that you apparently approved prior to them proceeding with it. So they met their obligation in the repair.
Was that repair worthy of the price charged? That’s a debatable topic that would probably only result with a line in the sand being drawn, and everyone taking their side. Personal perception and finances most likely dictating where each stands. I’d personally have a hard time swallowing the price, but I’d have a hard time swallowing it if the rod came back even as you had expected.
In the end I agree with John_N that there are two sides, and think both sides bear some responsibility for the outcome here.
As a disclaimer: I always buy my rods new because I want the warranty and it is almost always for the original owner only. I also have a level of discomfort buying a previously owned rod with a blank warranty card and then sending that in. I’m not truly the original owner, so… If I want a warranty, I pay for it up front.
And yes, I’m a Winston fan, and have never experienced poor customer service from them. Quite the opposite in fact. So I am bias.
After reading all of this, it sounds like you never had a clear understanding with Winston either before you sent the rod to them for repair, or before they began the repair, of exactly what you expected them to fix and what their costs would be. If that’s the case, then why blame Winston?
They sent you an email that you didn’t understand, so you deleted it, and now you’re blaming them for not replying to your email?
David
By education, history, and desire I am a technical writer. I get paid for my English comprehension. So frankly, I take a wee bit of umbrage with the notion there is something in that email I missed. Is Winston so freaking cheap they cannot afford a vowel? Or a few consonants? How long would it take them to write a form email allowing them to fill in a few blanks and actually communicate?
I do not feel I received exactly what Winston said they were going to do… Because they never stated EXACTLY what they were going to do. The email is at best cryptic.
I already pointed out I failed because I did not pursue the lack of communication. I assumed Winston would do what I had been told they would do by other Winston advocates and owners experienced in Winston CS. I have gotten a significant bit of feedback from this from folks sending in non-warranty rods and finding the work seriously subpar. So my question now relates to Winston standards on warranty work versus non.
Please realize I appreciate your comments and hold absolutely no hard feelings against your thoughts or you over this… It is just a discussion.
art
I think you misconstructed some of the events… I deleted the email, but then recovered it when it occurred to me it might be about the Winston… That email is what I copied and pasted here. I have never communicated with any rod company before sending in a rod for repair… I just send them in with some form of tracking.
I misunderstood their email, or they did not do what I thought (and was told by several Winston-experienced folks) they would do.
Now, after the rod was returned and I was surprised at the lack of attention it had received I sent an email asking for explanation. They have not bothered to respond to it.
I blame Winston for lousy communication and take some of the credit for not pushing it.
I blame Winston for gouging on rod repair charges. A simple tip replacement for $132 is not a good will builder IMO.
I blame Winston for excessive shipping costs.
I blame Winston for not bothering to respond to an emailed question.
art
Why do you think Winston is gouging on rod repairs? The Boron blanks by themselves sell for 400 to 550. If your blank sells for 400 and is a 4 piece then you buy the section you need for 100. Then, Winston needs to put the guides on. If they only charged you 132 for the tip section consider yourself lucky. They could have just told you no since you are not the original buyer. Companies loose thousands of dollars a year when you offer to do this. If you bought a used LCD TV on tried to get that manufacture to offer warranty work you have lost your mind. So why would you expect this company to do so? As far as shipping cost, every thing cost to ship now. Sure they could have shipped it cheaper if they want to shop around and do it for cost. But they need to make money also.
Everyone thinks these big Name fishing companies need to warranty everything thing. Even when they forget there rod is hanging out the bed of their pick up when they close the door and break the rod. Or you are walking though the woods with rod ready to fish and drop the tip by carelessness and break the tip. People really need to wake up and get realistic. Rods today really do not need to come with warranties because the companies test the rods and put them through the works without any breaks. But, if they did not warranty the rods and someone breaks there rod somehow, they blame the company, when it was there fault the rod broke.