Will a 7wt large arbor reel do well on an 8 rod?

Fishing Saltwater Fly Fishing
1

My wife and I have a TFO Pro 8 and a Redington TRF 8-9 that we got for bass, but we found that our 5 and 6 outfits could easily handle even an occasional 30" carp, so we haven’t used the heavier rods much. Enter the oportunity for salt water, and we need a couple of reels. I know an 8wt reel would be best, but would a 7wt large arbor salt reel at a very nice price do a good job with the rods? It seems that nowadays there are a lot of “4-5-6” or “7-8-9” reels. I can’t think of any reason the 7 large arbor wouldn’t work well, especially since it weighs the same as an 8-10 standard arbor by the same maker.

Will appreciate any help,

Busbee

2

A key issue is the ability for the reel to hold enough backing. You might need to use Gel-spun backing which is thinner than regular backing so that you can hold enough line for the fish you hope to hook.

Assuming the drag is a good enough drag you should do fine.

jed

3

Specifically, the choices are Teton Tioga 8 standard arbor at $100 and Teton (not Tioga) 7 large arbor plus extra spool for $160.

4

Teton Fly Reels web site:

http://www.tetonflyreels.com/

Contact info there, if they are anything like other Fly Reel companies I have dealt with, they will likely be happy to give you the backing capacities of the various reels you are looking at.

-wayne

5

This is my first post to the salt water forum, and I haven’t spent much time here (but I will), so as of yet I have a short supply of knowledge on salt water. But it appears that you salt guys are really into reels more than fresh water fishers (and quite understandably so), and it somehow seemed to me that amongst salt water fly anglers, it would just plain be wrong to get a 7wt reel for an 8wt rod. But if it is merely an issue of the amount of backing, then it is no problem. The 7 large arbor Teton holds a line and 150 yards of backing, which according to Kreh is enough. A Kreh quote on backing:

“Many people recommend over 200 yards. Forget it… Think about it. If you have an albacore – which run pretty well – and he rips 150 yards of backing from your reel, if you add 30 more yards for line and leader – that’s one and two-thirds of a football field away! That will happen only in your dreams.”

And the Teton is better than the Teton Tioga. Right? Plus that extra spool is nice. Or with a shooting head system, is an extra spool all that helpful?

Busbee

6

It’s a matter of fitting the backing about on, along with the line you want to use. That’s about it as far as reel size goes.

Now drag is another thing, but if you already know the reel you are using, then that decision is already made. So if the required backing and line fit, then use it.

-wayne

7

Well, they ain’t bought yet, so the decision hasn’t been made. There are other possibilities, I guess. Such as the Redington CD-series. Same price range, and since we need two reels, price takes on a greater meaning.

But your bringing up the drag is somthing new. Hadn’t thought about that. How important is the drag difference?

Again, is the extra spool important if you have changeable shooting heads? Our largemouth fishing has been decidedly low-tech – wading in a shallow river and using poppers on a floating line, and long long casts, with lots of 2 and 3-pounders and occasionally higher. We have had sink tips and an intermediate line for three years – never used them. Lazy, I guess, but if it ain’t broke…

But salt should be more demanding – not necessarily more fun, but at the least it will add variety.

Busbee

8

Drag is important in a lot of salt water fishing. Take a cheap drag reel, and let a bonefish run, watch the drag fry. Drag need will depend on what you are fishing for. I am not familiar with Teton’s drag system so I won’t comment. I have mostly Orvis reels.

This is my take on spools/lines. Other may have other opinions. For my larger rods, 6 wt and above. I have multi-tip lines. Not shooting heads, but multi tip. An example is SA Quad Tip. For my fishing, this works well. Floating, intermediate, sink tip, etc. Quick to change, cast decent. Not as good as separate lines, but does not required multiple lines on multiple spools. Less to carry, less to buy. Yea when the line wears out, I’ll have to buy another expensive multi tip line, but for me I like the solution. They make freshwater and salt water versions on the multi tip lines. I am planning on going salt water fishing some time, and will simply buy a couple salt water multip tip lines.

I use them for my Smallmouth bass fishing, and most my fresh water fishing.

-wayne

9

OK, we’re sliding away from the original question. When I said that salt water fishers were, understandably, more into reels than freshwater guys, it was about drag. So I know drag is important. You brought up the drag difference, and I thought you were talking about the difference between a 7 and 8 drag. But now I guess you meant different reels have different drags.

My original question assumed that the Teton is one of the best, if not the best, salt water reel, with great drag, for around $250, with the Teton Tioga being cheaper by about $75 or so. That is, the Teton (standard) is better. and with that in mind, the question concerned whether the sacrifice of “mismatching” an 8 rod with a 7 Teton was worth it to get a Teton rather than a “well matched” but slightly less-desirable Teton Tioga 8 regular arbor.

So, yes, a salt water reel’s quality is about drag, anodizing, drag, machining tolerances, drag, backing capacity, and drag. And of course cosmetics.

Question: My wife and I have two 8 rods and have a chance to buy a fantastic pair of Teton 7 large arbor reels, with extra spools, half price, $160 each, or a pair of Teton Tioga 8 standard arbor reels for $100 each. We of course prefer the Teton (standard).

I am sure that any differences would be subtle, but we fly anglers are into discerning subtle differences.

Any help from the Teton crowd?

Busbee

10

Answer: It’s about backing/line capacity :slight_smile:

-wayne

11

The Teton reels (including the Tioga) have a patented drag system based on neoprene discs. I have two of those reels (and 8 and a 6), but I can’t truly say that the drags have been tested. Other than that, I like the reels. Maybe someone else can say something about how good the drags are.

Most people consider reels with cork compression drag systems to be the best. The reason is that cork compresses under pressure and therefore cork drags have low startup inertia – which is what results in having a “smooth” drag. So when a fast moving fish (like an albie) takes the fly, there isn’t an iniitial “shock” as the drag starts up. No personal experience speaking there, because the bottom line is that I can’t afford such reels.

Many other companies have patented drag systems, Lamson/Waterworks, Nautilus and so on, based on different materials and theories about drags.

My personal opinion, probably not worth much, is that the Tioga is great for the kind of fishing I do nearly %100 of the time – which is stripers/blueflish. If I could afford to go after albies or bonefish frequently, maybe I would feel differently. But that will have to be in my next lifetime.

Those are great prices on those Teton reels you cited – you wouldn’t want to share where you got them, would you? :slight_smile:

(The line/backing capacity of all Teton reels is posted on their website.)

12

Well, guys, it seems that waynep succinctly summarized the concensus with “It’s about backing/line capacity.”

Thanks,

Busbee

13

Busbee,

IMHO Teton makes the best saltwater reels for the money, easily in league with other reels costing 2 as much. In your case make that 4x as much since you?re getting quite a deal. They have excellent customer service, and lifetime warranty. A go ? to outfit here in the NE (striped bass and bluefish mostly) is a TFO Pro rod/Teton or Tioga combo. Usually a 9wt rod matched to a 10 reel. They’re not in the same league as a Tibor Riptide at $600, which might be an optimal choice for bones, permit, tunoids, giant trevally or whatever you have down there that?s comparable to those speedsters, but very adequate for bass, blues and the occasional false albacore up here for way less, and you’ve been offered a fantastic deal too good to pass up. You may even want to consider buying 4 reels instead of spools. It’s good to have back ups in case something bad happens, especially at that price, (but don’t know if spools are interchangeable between tetons and tiogas, if not buy all 4 the same)

Both the Teton and the Teton Tioga share the same drag, are machined from a solid aluminum and have salt water coatings. A spritz with FW should be standard practice after using any rod and reel in SW.

One word of caution though, if I could get a size 10 (for 8-10 outfits) instead of the size 7 Teton (or size 8 Tioga), I?d opt for that instead, especially at that price. SW fish especially on open flats, can really take off, and it?s not at all unusual to have 100 to 125 yds burn out on a hot fish if you?re going to be poking around for bones, permit, GT, medium sharks, or going after small tuna. Personally I?d feel a lot better with 200 yds. and never have to worry about it… Also LA reels have less backing capacity than medium (standard) reels for the same line wt., so you?d be pushing it a little with a 9 wt WF and maybe a little skrewed it you decided to overline it with a 10 WF . Going to gel spun (with a couple of wraps of regular on the reel as a cushion first, might give you the backing with the 7 or 8 if you couldn’t get that fantastic deal on a 10 or 8-10.

From the Teton website (note that heavier fly lines = less backing):

Teton 7 standard 6.4 oz. 100-200 yds #20 with WF 6F

Teton 7 Large Arbor 7.2 oz. 100-175 20# with WF 6F

Teton 8-10 Standard 7.2 oz.175-250 yds w/ #20 WF 7-10F

Teton LA 8-10 7.9 oz 125-175 yds #20 w/ WF 7-10F

Tioga

8 Standard 6.6oz 150-200 yds #20 WF 7-9F

8 Large Arbor 7.1 oz 100-150 yds WF 6-8F

10 Standard 7.2 oz. 175-225 yds #30 WF 8-10F

10 LA 7.6 oz. 100-150 yds. #30 with WF 8-10

Hope this helps.

peregrines

14

Peregrines,

Solidly useful information.

And solidly appreciated.

Busbee

15

Also keep in mind that a reel with a 7wt line and 150 yds backing will, if using a 9wt line hold closer to 125 yds. backing (Wild arsed guesstimates). Truth be told, most reels will be sufficient as it is rare that you get into the extra yds of backing.

jed

16

Busbee,

I?d be very interested to hear about the SW fishing over there, and enjoyed your post very much about your perspective and the LMB fishing. What was up with the guy that packed up and left? Some sort of cultural taboo you unknowingly stepped on?

Any way, just some random musings:

-Trying to pack as much backing on a smaller reel, plus fly line leaves you less margin for error in terms of winding line back on the reel when fighting a fish. Ideally, line should be evenly wrapped on the spool, but it?s very easy to forget to layer it properly when fighting a fish, trying to steer it away from coral, and all ?heck? breaking loose. You can very easily end up with a ?bump? of fly line jamming up against the reel cross piece preventing you from reeling in a fish that?s still a way?s off, and if it runs at you you?ll have a hard time keeping tight. .

-All things being equal, a smaller diameter spool will be spinning faster on runs, which will translate into more heat on the drag. But I couldn?t begin to tell you how much difference it could make though, so maybe it?s just a nit…

-Consider right hand retrieve for saltwater (if you?re a righty). It seems counterintuitive, since one would think you?d be better off holding a rod in your strong hand to fight a fish, and it does require a hand switch after the first long run after a strip set which can be a little awkward at first. There are a couple of advantages to reeling right though, especially for fast fish. One is you can pick up line a lot faster by reeling with your dominant hand. The second is that the reel handle pointing to the right is out of the way of the fly line when you cast, and is one less thing for it to wrap around in the wind. It?s also out of the way when a fish makes its initial run and loose line is zipping out of the guides before it comes tight to the reel, while you?re still learning to do the ?o? thing with the thumb and index finger of your left hand (and letting line clear through the ?o? after a hook up to reduce the chances of getting a jumble of spaghetti caught up in the first guide). On the flats, it?s all about making your shots count, and anything you can do to up the odds is a good thing.

For what it?s worth, I?m a righty, and all my FW reels and older SW reels are still set up for LH retrieve, but I use RH retrieve now on my newer SW reels and like it a lot after getting used to it. If you plan on doing a lot of flats fishing for hot fish, or any SW fish with a ?T? (trevally, tarpon, tuna) I?d recommend you at least consider it and possibly pitch it to your wife for a blessing or veto. The Tetons and Tiogas can easily be switched from LH to RH if you want to try it (but you?ll have to re-reel the line and backing).

Anyway, welcome to the board, and I?ll be looking forward to your reports.

Regards,

peregrines

17

I have Teton and Teton Tioga models. They are one of the better values in fly reels. I also have reels that are much more expensive from Ross, G. Loomis, and Abel, as well as equal or less expensive models from Orvis, Scientific Anglers, Ross, and others.

The Teton and Tioga reels have proven to be very solid and dependable reels for much of my inshore and light saltwater angling. I have had a few serious critters pull on them. I highly recommend them for most angling situations. However I am not sure that I would rely on them for heavy duty work with high speed critters tunas larger than 15-20 lbs or so and other similar critters that can move real fast. I have never actually heard of the drag itself failing but their is a weak point in the design that can fail under stress. All direct drive fly reels have some sort of mechanism to have the spool engage the drag and keep from free spooling. On both the Teton and Tioga, this is accomplished by a leaf spring on the back of the spool which engages slots on a ratchet plate on reel frame. I have received two first hand accounts where the spring failed and the reel went into free spool. Both cases involved battles with tuna and dorado of about 20lb. I witnessed one other case where the spring bent under stress and would not engage the ratchet plate and the reel went into free spool.

But even with that experience, I still highly recommend both the Teton and the Teton Tioga reels for most bay surf and inshore fishing. They are solid and clean up easily, and don’t require much in the way of maintenance. The tolerances are not quite as tight as some more expensive reels, but this is not necessarily bad - they don’t jam up as easily if you get sand in them. Not that you should continue to use the reel if you get sand in it, but they do flush out easily.

I use a Teton 9/11 on 9 and 10wt rods and have been using it for 10 years. I use a Teton Tioga Magnum on 6,7, and 8 wt rods. I think the Tioga 10 or Tioga Magnum 10 are a better match for 8,9, and 10 wt rods.

Now if a budget reel for things like tuna, trevally, dorado, and billfish and such is needed, I would strongly consider the Tempest Reels from Sea Level Fly Fishing. This machined, draw bar cork disk drag reel was previously marketed by Albright. Albright discontinued the reel and Sea Level Fly Fishing acquired most of the rest of the stock and sold them at 50% off the original retail price. Sea Level is now having that same reel made and sells it under their own label, again at 50% of what Albright listed them for. The four models run between $150 and $185. The reels have a very good track record. Cork drags do require maintenance however.

18

It should work just fine try it.