As I read through the FAOL threads on rods I noticed several people stating that they have so and so’s rod and they really like it a lot, but, if they had one complaint it would be that the rod came with single foot guides and they wish it had snake guides instead.
Why do these people wish the rod came with snake guides instead of single foot guides?
Is there an advantage with snake guides over single foot and if there is, what is it?
Will removing the single foot guides and replacing them with snake guides change the action or weight of the rod?
Until reading these threads I never wondered much about the type of guides on my rods and now wonder if I remove the single foot guides and replaced them with snake guides, will I notice a difference in the rod action?
Just curious and wanted to see what those “in the know about fly rods” thought about this…
Is there an advantage with snake guides over single foot and if there is, what is it?
No!
Will removing the single foot guides and replacing them with snake guides change the action or weight of the rod?
In actuality YES!..but you will never be able to detect it without $$$ equipment
Until reading these threads I never wondered much about the type of guides on my rods and now wonder if I remove the single foot guides and replaced them with snake guides, will I notice a difference in the rod action?
Nope!
Just curious and wanted to see what those “in the know about fly rods” thought about this…
Although I pretty much agree with Sully, there is a (minor) advantage to snake foot guides – if you do happen to pop a foot out of the wrapping you don’t lose the guide, the other foot holds it in until you can repair it; with a single foot you can lose it.
Some who prefer snake guides will also argue that it’s harder to knock one loose in the first place. Maybe, but a well installed guide isn’t likely to come loose in either case. In almost 50 years, I’ve only popped one guide out of it’s wrapping. (And that was a snake guide.)
I may prefer snake guides, but it’s purely for aesthetic reasons.
The last 2 rods I built were light trout rods and I decided to try single-foot guides. Reading some of the rod-building forums, it seemed that the main benefit was less line friction through the guides, weight reduction and speed of rod construction (1/2 the time to wrap and apply finish). I’ve been very happy with the rods although I don’t notice any difference in casting distance between single-foot and snake (the rods I built are for small creeks where I spend most time fishing with about 15’ of line outside the tip); I don’t know how much it saved in weight (didn’t have a comparable rod with snake guides); I’m sure construction time was a little faster although I never time myself when building rods.
I appreciate everyone who has responded to my questions and I did do some searching in the Archives here on FAOl and found this very interesting article which answers many questions I have:
ROD BUILDING TIPS
Guide Effect On Stiffening
By Tom Kirkman, (RodMaker Magazine)
Here’s a question from the July/August 2000 issue of RodMaker magazine: "I enjoy the magazine very much and recently sent for all the available back issues. In one of them, you said that wrapping double footed guides on a rod would make the rod softer, not stiffer. This goes against everything I’ve ever heard about using double footed guides. All the better rod builders I know say that double footed guides make the rod stiffer, because the guides are stiff themselves. How can you explain your statement which goes against what everybody else says?. . .Barry, Flora, IN
"You and your building friends have missed the boat on this one. All guides, whether single or double footed, will soften a rod to some degree as the weight they add has a greater effect on rod efficiency than does any stiffening that may occur between the guide feet.
Let’s put this into perspective. Let’s say you’re building a simple 6 foot spinning rod. I’d guess you’re going to use about 6 guides or so to make things interesting let’s assume they are of ultra-stiff frame construction. What is the total area between the guide feet? Measure and add the sum of that space on each guide that lies between the guide feet and I’ll bet you’ll come up with a combined total of something less than 3 inches. So on a total rod length of 72 inches you’re going to stiffen less than 3 inches! In other words, the total amount of stiffening going on is pretty much immaterial - you’ll never notice it. But you will notice the reduction in rod efficiency caused by the overall weight increase made when you added those guides. Double footed guides, usually much heavier than their single foot cousins will exacerbate the softening caused by the addition of extra weight to the rod. This is why, contrary to common belief, using double footed guides will usually result in a softer rod than if single footed guides had been used on the same blank.
The bottom line is that the reduction in efficiency caused by the weight of the guides will have an overall greater effect than any few inches of stiffening will. [b]~ Tom Kirkman[/b]
I prefer snake guides. Why? I use shooting head systems extensively. I have found the the shooting head to shooting line connections are much more likely to hang up on single foot guides than snake guides. Same with multi tip lines. That is my experience based on trying a few rods with single foot guides and owning two rods so equipped. Some other friends have come to the same conclusion. That is why I prefer snake guides. Other than that, it makes no difference to me.
The two rods I own with single foot guides were provided as warranty replacements. The original rods had snake guides. The company switched to single foot for those models. I did not perceive any significant difference in rod action. Maybe if I had one of each version I might have noticed something.
I must agree to a point - much of what you read is personal preference and choices made based on various experiences had by a large number of people.
I am very picky when it comes to the guides I place on the rods I build - again personal preference. I suspect most who do not like the single foots are using the ones that lay flat against the blank - I will not use them either. As stated in a previous response knots do catch in them and they don’t allow the line to flow smoothly
However Hopkins & Holloway or ReCoil make some that stand up away from the blank and I find they do allow for smoother flow of the line and much better performance than snakes when I am building a rod designed for distance casting. A rod where the fishing calls for covering a lot of water.
With that said though I do find snakes give a better feel for the line and perform better when building a rod that will be used where accuracy counts. A small stream rod will always have snake guides when I build one.
Again this is all my opinion and my style - other rod builders will have different opinion and different styles to what they do
That is what makes the sport fun - we can all express ourselves and enjoy in our own way.
While there is a difference in ‘actual’ performance, mostly due to weight reduction from one less wrap, the difference is so slight that the fisherman won’t be able to tell in normal use.
All the stuff about single foot-v-double foot guides comes down to perception and personal choice.
I’ve always believed that taking the time to properly space the guides, and determine the optimum number of guides for each blank, will produce the most notable differences in percieved performamce.
Also, most folks misunderstand the difference between stiffness and action. Not the same thing. While I know and like Tom Kirkman, his explanation above missed that point. You can make a blank ‘stiffer’ and still slow down it’s action, which adding any weight to the rod does.
By the way, I only use single foot guides. I like the idea of the weight savings, and the time saving from one less wrap per guide appeals to me. I also like how it looks. Again, all personal preference issues.
I usually do not believe everything I read or hear for that matter. I try to make my decisions based on what I read and gather from others and then put all the input together and make my decision from that and from reading that article and reading everyone’s responses, I have decided that it does not make any difference as far as rod performance goes. It is just a personal preference and I am OK with that and appreciate everyone’s replies.
I started an informal poll on this issue last spring some time, on the Rod Building Forum.
Almost without exception, people who responded indicated that while actually fishing they would not be able to tell the difference between a rod with snake guides and an otherwise identical rod with single foot guides.
The discussions about preferences and the technical differences that might exist between two otherwise identical rods sporting the different style of guides are always interesting and educational.
But when it gets down to the dynamic situations fishing presents, hardly anyone, if anyone, can tell the difference.
