The Jim Hatch Jellybean link reminded me of this.
There seems to be fairly universal opinion that providing some red to represent gills in our flies is a good thing…[sure, some will say it doesn’t matter].
If it does help why do you think it does?
I encountered something a short while ago that I think explains it? Let’s see what you say first.
Respect Your Elders!
A sick or wounded fish breathes harder flaring its gills. Hence the red gill on many streamer patterns.
Paul H.
“Whiskey is for drinking; Water is for Fighting over.”
Just follow the old pattern recipes and no one gets hurt 
Sorry I’m a little late chiming in on this subject but, when I tie Wooly Worms or Buggers, beside the RED tail, I also tie in a small red “beard” on the bottom of the head of the fly. These will outfish BGs and Bass 2 to 1 on either of my ponds.
Wise men still seek HIM…
I think PaulH has got the underlying reason…and Chris too.
I was helping collect some fish at a hatchery recently and the manager was picking out minnows that he said weren’t going to make it…turns out he was seeing the flared gills and when held in hand it was impressive how widely visible and red they were.
It’ll give me more confidence to go to the effort of tying gills in.
Respect Your Elders!
[This message has been edited by ducksterman (edited 21 July 2005).]
[This message has been edited by ducksterman (edited 21 July 2005).]
Maybe because of fly tying convention or confidence you have in your patterns unless you consider underwater color shift.
While it is plausible that predatory fish key in on the red gill on many streamer patterns representing bleeding or mating color of some baitfish, there is no guarantee that the red gill on your streamer remains red under the water regardless of the surroundings you fish in.
In a recent contribution to Fly of the Week, Fox Statler talked about underwater color changes referring to What Fish See by Dr. Colin J. Kageyama. The nutshell is that water acts as a color filter, and that the types and colors of water (choppy vs. smooth, clear-blue, green, or muddy), light conditions (sunny or cloudy), the depth of your streamer patterns in the water column, and underwater background colors are factors that change how the streamer color is perceived by fish.
With underwater color shift in mind, trout may not perceive the red gill as red at all in some types of water.
With underwater color shift in mind, trout may not perceive the red gill as red at all in some types of water.
At the same time, the red mark we see above water on real fish, may exhibit the same colour shift underwater?
The contrast or difference of colour in the gill area may be all that is needed to trigger the pred response in other fish.
Paul H.
“Whiskey is for drinking; Water is for Fighting over.”
Let’s see now …if we see gills as red and we see a piece of marabou or fur, etc. as red would they change to the same color under water…maybe the fish sees them as the same color but it doesn’t call that color red???
Respect Your Elders!
Hey Folks,
As a youngster tying my first flies for
gills, my Dad told me to always include
some red. My Dad told me it excited the
fish and got you more strikes. I don’t know
where he got that from, maybe his Dad, and
have absolutley nothing to back up the claim. But if it was good enough for Dad,
it’s darned sure good enough for me. After
all, he taught me to fish.G Warm regards,
Jim
pharper and ducksterman,
We may have greater confidence in an aesthetically beautiful red-gilled streamer, so we may fish it more vigorously, and hence catch more fish even when the red gill turns black underwater and the red gill is not a factor in certain types of waters.
I agree with you that fish would experience the same underwater color shift with respect to bleeding on real baitfish and the red gill on your streamer pattern although red blood and marabou fibers would turn black in green water.
However, I am not sure whether red-turned-black gill attracts fish. Maybe, in the case of real bleeding fish, not the red blood color but the abnormal movenment of a wounded minnow attracts fish? Also, fluorescent red synthetic fibers would remain more true to red color in green water than red-dyed marabou? So, tying materials might make a difference, too.
pharper makes a good point that the color contrast in the gill area may act as a trigger, and I agree. However, the red gill may not be the best to achieve maximum contrast in the gill area under green water. Fish sees green, yellow and gold best under green water, and to have maximum contrast with these colors, we may not have to use red as a contrasting dark color.
That being said, I never intend to be a smart a**. The color of fly patterns is always an interesting topic to me, and I am just curious whether and how we really achieve the intended effects of using certain colors on hackles, spectrumized dubbings, etc. At the end of the day, as Gary LaFontaine said, there can be simultaneously many reasons why a fly pattern works successfully, and the red gill may or may not be one of those reasons.
Have a great day.
[This message has been edited by adso4 (edited 21 July 2005).]
You know we have to give Gary LaFontaine a lot of credit for his underwater studies… but I’ve wondered…he was looking through human eyes …do we really know that’s how fish see the things he saw???
Respect Your Elders!
RW here,
The question: Why Gills?
The answer: Why not?
“We fish for pleasure; I for mine, you for yours.” -James Leisenring on fishing the wet fly-
RW,
The pragmatic answer…
If worthless …then save the step…
Actually, I’m with you…
I receive the “National Geographic” Channel, on my cable TV service, and they had a show on fish coloration. Some fish (especially saltwater fish), have the ability to see in the ultraviolet range. Also some fish with their colorful markings cause them to be camouflaged if their by their colorful markings if it is seen in the ultraviolet light range.
Amazingly some fish have body markings patterns that protect them, when viewed in ultraviolet, yet the fish with the markings does not possess ultraviolet sight. Very strange…
So some fish can see an object in visible light and in ultraviolet, some can only see things in visible light, yet use the aspects of ultraviolet light for protection…
~ Parnelli
Chartered Member of “Friends of FAOL”!
Down in the meadow in a little bitty pool
Swam three little fishies and a mama fishie too
“Swim” said the mama fishie, “Swim if you can”
And they swam and they swam all over the dam
[This message has been edited by Steven H. McGarthwaite (edited 22 July 2005).]
I suggest going down to Wal-Mart and looking at the dying fish in the aquarium section. That might give a better idea of how to pattern a fly that looks like an easy mark to a hungry fish.
RRhyne56
[url=http://www.robinscustomleadersandflies.com:c400c]http://www.robinscustomleadersandflies.com[/url:c400c]
IM = robinrhyne@hotmail.com
Did you mean the greeters at the Wal-Mart? Sorry.
Drew
A bum-legged old man and a drunk. That’s all you got?
That’s WHAT I got.
Now Drew,
Respect Your Elders!