Anyone here use it? I got to meet Dave and Emily this weekend. Very nice people. Bought his new book and he signed it, even drew a little fish picture as part of the autograph!
I attended a session Emily did talking about their Knotless Zap-a-Gap system. I bought he kit and DVD, and going to try it. I will admit that I was skeptical about it’s strength. I did the first leader connection tonight and I cannot pull it out, and I pulled on it pretty darn hard, I felt the line stretching and quit pulling. My tippet will break long before this connection. Dave has said he has caught Tarpon and bill fish with this connection, so I decided to try it. It seems the key is roughing up the leader butt a little with sandpaper before gluing to increase the “grip” the glue has.
I use both the knotless system and loop system that Dave has. Both work really well and neither have ever failed. It is very important to follow the instructions to get a good glue up.
The knotless connection works nice when one reels in a long leader and it doesn’t get caught on the guides!
I purchased his knotless system and DVD in January and really like it. It’s hands down the smoothest connection system I’ve tried so far. I was pleasantly suprised by the number of different conections Dave demonstrates on the DVD, many I never thought of.
I agree with iaflyfisher, you have to follow the directions or it just doesn’t hold as well, learned that one the hard way!
My experience has been that the super glue crystallized after about a year and the butt end would pull out of the line. This short coming is apparently well known in some circles, e.g., woodworkers. Am restricted to the use of only one hand, or would elaborate. (Don’t want to risk the ‘third time’ NOT being charmed!)
I have a full-sink line with the glue connection that’s been going strong for twelve years now, without change. I’m confident that it will go a lot longer still.
I have my 4wt rod setup this way now. It seems to be holding tight. I pulled on the connections pretty hard, and they held nicely. I know the tippet is going to break way before the amount I pulled on them. I do really like the smoothness of the connections now.
Maybe my tailing loops won’t catch on those connections!!
I also watched the entire DVD. Several nice to know connections shown in great detail.
It works really well IF you rough up the leader butt and follow the instructions TO THE T. Zap-A-Gap is not typical superglue. Now, if you leave stuff with ZAG on it out in the hot car or in a shed in summertime for extended periods of time, etc. it will crystalize. Of course, so will your fly lines and mono leaders. So who cares about the ZAG? LOL But if you care for your equipment the way you’re supposed to it won’t happen. That’s why some of these fellas are reporting several years of reliable use, while others will say it broke after about a year or so. Heat and UV degrade the fly line and mono leader just as much as they are bad for the ZAG. But ZAG is far more resilient than your run-o-the-mill superglue. It also forms a waterproof seal on things. And the chemical bonding that it does with natural materials is superior to superglue. With synthetics, it can be downright dangerous! (slight exaggeration, but the reaction is sometimes quite interesting).
While I know nothing of Dave’s glue system I’m shocked that anyone would fish a leader or butt section for longer than a few months, much less a full year or longer. I suppose that one guy’s 3 years of fishing is equal to another guy’s month of fishing but leaders are cheap compared to all we spend on this hobby. Why not change your leader every month or every 3 to 5 outtings? Yes I change tippet often too, some days as many as 10 to 12 times per day. Nicked line and a lost large fish will make you figure out that it is a simple task to change tippet often.
I am with you, Rick. Every time you change a leader using the Whitlock Knotless Connection you have to clip a bit off the end of your fly line. Leaders are much cheaper than fly lines and it doesn’t take long to change the way a line turns over a fly. That’s why I gave it up pretty quickly after messing with it for awhile.
I agree . . . I followed along with Dave on the DVD while doing it the first time. I did roughen up the leader butt like he did. I also don’t leave equipment in the car when there is a possibility of the car getting hot, unless it’s a spare rod while I am fishing, but that will be for that day only.
One of the two co-developers of this “knot” personally taught me to make this connection, and I did rough up the monofilament. My gear is never, ever kept in my vehicle in the heat of the summer unless the A/C is on, i.e., going to and fro fishing locations in a SUV!! Ergo, the inference that the reason they did not hold for me is due to gear mistreatment is pure pferdescheist! Can’t imagine a more sophomorish comment than “…if you care for your equipment…”. The array of different super glues is astounding! So what else is new? I agree that Zap-A-Gap is NOT a “typical” superglue; first, as previously noted, there is no such thing; second, it has a very limited shelf-life; in my personal experience with it, substantially less than the 2 years attributed to the 'typical" superglues. Hence, I quit buying it quite sometime ago. Damned aggravating to have a bottle less than six months and find that it has solidified when it has been kept at a temperature in the mid-'70’s on a fly tying desk in the house.
Moreover, not all objects made by woodworkers are intended to be used outdoors, kept in closed-up vehicles or stored in garages during the heat of the summer. Some are very high dollar ornate pieces of furniture that will be kept in “climate regulated” homes and offices.
wow. all that gluing and work…? not for me. I use furled leaders and the Castwell knot. I can tie on a leader in about 15 seconds and go fish. Change leaders in a heartbeat. But don’t have to because furled leaders last so long.
Calm down there, aged sage! LOL We understand. But a fly line coating and a leader are not ornate wooden furniture, and if you didn’t use ZAG then you didn’t follow the instructions TO THE T. Nobody accused you of anything.
For your edification, when Joe Robinson, who helped Dave Whitlock develop the “knot”, showed me how to do it in about 1993, he said absolutely nothing about Zap-A-Gap being essential ! The inference at the time was that they used ZAG simply because that was what they had on hand (as most fly tiers used it and had it available).There were NO TO THE “T” instructions! Period! You are once again making unfounded and unsubstantiated assumptions. If I learned nothing else during my academic career, I DID learn to read; and the inferences were clearly there in your earlier post. Additionally, I NEVER said that wood and fly lines and leaders are equivalent (another erroneous inference). It was simply a rebuttal to your earlier erroneous inference relative to my comment about super glue and wood workers. Those are your words! I very simply said that wood workers have found that super glues have a tendency to crystalize and subsequently fail. My statement was, is, and will continue to be true and accurate.
You can rest assured that this Old Kraut is NOT going to let erroneous, misleading, and demeaning inferences made in reference to something he has said go unchallenged! Sorry; but I paddled my canoe past that point years ago!
I always date mark superglue when I purchase it. My current bottle of ZAG is dated 3/7/2008, and is still perfectly useable. The “trick” is to keep it air tight. I have also had ZAG connections last for several years. I always test the connections before I begin fishing, and in the past ten years, I have only had one fail the test, and it was in it’s second season.
Hello,
I sometime like to “troll” a weighted fly with my kickboat with long leader. It is not much fun reeling the loop to loop conection thru the guides. How much does this knotless system cost? I may like to try it.
Thanks
I bought a kit from Dave Whitlock at a tying show last weekend. He has the kits on his website for $25. He also has a DVD showing the connections. I got them both at the show. One could put together their own kit, the stuff is available at most dept stores. I bought both, and I think the DVD which has the detailed instructions for several different connections which Dave shows step by step, is the valuable part.
Fly lines have a 6" section of level tip that is used to tie on the leaders. Look up the profile of all fly lines. For example the Sci Angler Sharkskin See the .5 ft tip section? Or the Orvis Fly lines - See the 6" tip section?
What ever connection type you use, if you use .019 - .017" Maxima Chameleon as a connector and then tie a perfection loop to that, you never have to cut off any of the tip. You loop to loop the actual leader to the Maxima connector. Since my connection is permanent, I actually cut off about 4" of the level tip to get a smoother transition from fly line taper to connector to leader.
My problem with the Whitlock connection is that the section of mono inside the fly line tip stiffens the tip and it has no give or flex whatsoever. This causes hinging where the tip meets the connection and the fly line will eventually crack. The harder and tighter the casting loops, the more the hinging occurs. I use the standard nail knot which does not seem to have this problem as often. Coated with Pliobond it does not hang up in the guides.
Here is the key to keeping knots from hanging up on the guides, especially the tip top. TURN THE ROD OVER (reel facing up)! This causes the fly line and leader knots to ride along the shaft of the rod and not over the guides. Snake guides allow this because they are incomplete rings. Whenever I am into a large fish and I need to take the leader knot into the tip guide, I flip the rod over and the knot slips smoothly over the top of the rod and down the rod shaft.
Geez. When I made my post I was trying talking to Wayne about the topic he asked about and barely even thinking about your post…only that you said it would fail after a year or two due to crystalization. The rest wasn’t even in my consciousness. I never meant to offend you and certainly wasn’t taking a shot at you. If you got offended, I’m afraid that’s on you. But I’ll apologize anyway. There are a LOT of really, really fragile egoes around here!
Gadams,
My experience with ZAG is just about like yours. If you keep the stuff air tight it will last quite awhile. My current bottle is at least 3 years old and going strong. I have 2 more unopened bottles that I’ve had for 2 years now and they’re fine. And I have ZAG holding literally hundreds of things together, most of which have been used quite a bit, some of which are as much as 8 years old now. But I have yet to find anything that is 100% perfect for everything I try it for 100% of the time…even my wife.
