I’ve maybe been doing to much reading and have gotten myself all confused. I’m relatively new to fly fishing and have been going over different articles about leaders and attaching them to the fly line. What do most people do? use loops, nail knots or ??. Loops seem to be most efficient if you are changing leaders a lot, but how often to change them is a whole new topic.
Any suggestions or ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks
John
I use furled leaders which I tie to my fly line with a nail knot.
I would like to build a loop on the end of my fly line and then use a loop to loop connection.
When I was using a monofiliment leader I also used a nail knot, however, I ended up tangling and cutting back my leader enough that I kept taking little 1/2" chunks off of my fly line each time I tied on a new leader. So once again, a loop would have been better.
The tippet end of my leader has a loop on it and I tie my tippet to the furled leader with a loop to loop connection by tying a perfection loop in the tippet. That seems to work great.
John -
First of all, greetings and welcome from SE Idaho.
Your question always brings forth a lot of very different opinions, cause different things work for different people for their waters and situations.
For myself, both for dry fly and nymph fishing with a floating line and streamer fishing with a full sinking line, mostly for trout in moving water, I prefer the braided loops. Orvis and Rio put them out, and I suspect there are other brands available. The braided loops have proven durable and reliable for me and make changing leaders very quick and simple. They work well both with thread furled leaders ( next you’ll be asking about those ?? ) and mono leaders.
I have used a piece of mono nail-knotted to the fly line with a perfection loop at the end for a loop to loop connection to the leader, and that is probably my second favorite approach. Been thinking that when I run out of my current supply of braided loops, I may go back to that method to see how it feels / works after several years using braided loops only.
Anyway, welcome to the BB. Lots of neat people hang out here, and way too much good information available, if that’s possible.
John
P.S. If you are going to stay around, it would be helpful to fill out the profile so people will have an idea where you are from and what kind of fishing you likely do, and what your other interests are, etc.
John,
On fly line that doesn’t already have a loop for a loop/loop contection I nail knot on a piece of mono (20 to 40 lb test depending on the diameter of the fly line) about 6" long (finished length) and put in a perfection loop. On the one or two lines I’m currently using that didn’t come with a pre-welded loop in the line I find this the easiest method, whether using furled or tapered leaders, to change out a whole length of leader.
You can seal the nail knot and fly line with some plybond to give a nice, clean knot, that passes through the tip top or just hit it with a touch of super glue to seal the end to keep water from wicking into the inside of the fly line.
The chinese finger loops work fine. Lots of folks use them. I’ve just got no confidence they’ll hold at that critical moment. That’s not the connectors fault, it’s purley my paranoia. Loads of people swear by them so who am I to argue?
Like JohnScott said, you’ll get lot’s of opinions on this 'cause there’s lots of right ways to do it. Check out the Beginners Section on the left side of the main page. It has some suggestions as well (on a variety of fly fishing issues). You’ll even find reference to the famous “Castwell Knot” as an option. Try the seach feature or maybe some other helpful soul will link that for you.
Good luck, happy fishing and glad you found us.
On one of my 8wt fly rods, I use a nail knot to connect the fly line to the tapered leader. This works well, and I’ve landed some respectable fish on this.
On a second 8wt rod, a buddy of mine that worked at the store where I bought the rod attached a stiff piece of monofilament (I don’t recall exactly, but at least 20 lb test, maybe a lot more?). He used a nail knot on to connect to the fly line, and then put a loop on the other end, which would make it easier for me to attach the leader. This also works well, but the loop knot is kind of big and often catches floating grass and such.
On my 5 & 6 wt rods, I use the Scientific Angler L2L connectors (L2L stands for “Line to Leader”). I REALLY like these for a number of reasons, including ease of changing leaders, the connector is nicelyh streamlined and I can reel the connector right through the line guides and onto the reel, and the connector seems to float well, and acts as a good visual to watch for “takes”.
Welcome to FAOL.
I HATE the braided loops, and never recommend them to new fly fishers. I have had two failures with them when landing nice fish (both steelhead), so that was the end of my love affair with them. Both times Iwas told tha I should super glue them in so they won’t fray, to which I said, "What the hell good is it if you have to reinforce it? Makes no sense given the price of them.
IF a fly line does not come with a loop on the end, I whip one with tying thread and super glue it. I have not had any failures with this method, and I can switch easily between tapered mono leaders and furled leaders, both of which have loop to loop capabilities. The nail knotted heavy mono leader with a perfection loop at the end is also a better option than the braided loops, but they sometimes take a set at wierd angles and throw off your cast. Did I say I don’t care for braided loops? Oh, yeah, I did.
Learn how to whip a loop on the end of your line and you won’t need anything else except to master the perfection loop for your leaders.
Joe
If the leader has a loop in the butt end (most furled leaders do) the suggestions above for adding a loop to the flyline will work.
Or use the “Castwell Knot” to attach the flyline to the leader loop, I’ve never had one fail!
Welcome aboard from Tennessee, hope to see more of you soon. Also drop by the Chat Room any evening to meet some of us in real time.
Unless there was a welded loop, then always an Albright, that is, until I tried a Castwell knot the last time. So far, so good on the castwell knot. A guide I floated with even noticed the Castwell knot and we took it apart to show how it was done. It’s so easy it just can’t work… but it does.
Glenn
I like simple and very functional. The last couple lines I bought had built in loops. For the rest, I nail knotted the butt end of a leader onto the end of the fly line. I end up with about 6 inches of mono with a loop on the end of the fly line. Loop to loop connections from there makes things easy.
-wayne
I use a “Hot Butt”. This is esentially what a lot have already recommended, with a slight difference.
I use a short piece of 20 or 25 lb. test (can’t recall which weight I have) Sunset brand “Amnesia” fluorescent orange monofilament (they make it in fluorescent green too), about 6" - 8" long, and nail knot it to the fly line. I put a single surgeons loop at the end. I coat both knots with Loon KnotSense so they’ll pass through the guides more easily. I’ve never had to replace one of these butt sections. If the leader doesn’t already have a loop in it for some reason, it is easy to make one. I’ve personally never bought a fly line which already had a loop in it, but they’re out there.
The reason for the flourescent butt section is specifically for nymphing. You can nymph this way without the use of a strike indicator if the situation requires it. The fluorescent piece of line is plenty visible and works nicely as an indicator. I’ve never had any trouble using it with dries either, so I just tie these on all my lines. HTH. :tieone:
I will vote for putting a loop (Perfection loop) in the end of your new leader and using the Castwell knot to fasten it. I must like the knot to lend my name to it. Still testing it though, waiting for it to fail. Over half a century so far without failing, but I will keep testing.
Wow! Sooo much information. I have been tying my leader directly to the fly line with a nail Knot. It seems like I may be the only one. Loops of different kinds seem to be the most used, I had no idea. I will have to pick one of the methods suggested and start trying them out. I like the idea of not clipping the end off my line every time I change leaders.
My thanks to all that responded. I have been reading the forums on this site for a while now and am amazed at how much information is readily shared. Whatever happened to a fisherman’s secrets. This is way better.
Once again, thanks to all.
( now I’m curious about these furled leaders. Always learning sure keeps things interesting )
John
John;
A Furled Leader (Not to be confused with Braided Leaders!) is basicly a tapered rope. They can be made from almost any type of line or thread. A Furled Leader can be cast by it’s self and allows for longer tippets. A Furled Leader will last much longer than a mono leader as you only have to change the tippet for different conditions. A properly made Furled Leader will have a loop in each end allowing for a loop to loop connection to the fly line (or Castwell Knot) and to the tippet.
Ah heck, pm me your mailing address and I’ll send you one made of 6/0 Uni tying thread, 7’ long, 12/10/8/6 strand taper with 2 mm. tippet ring.
I use the ‘hot butt’ Amnesia mentioned above but with a needle knot and perfection loop instead of the nail and surgeons.
On my heavier lines where I sometimes use homemade sink tips I use the whipped fly line loop, also previously mentioned. The sink tips are just lead core line with a whipped loop at each end.
J.C.,
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I had one fail this summer. I was fishing for Tiger Musky so I was using some really heavy leader, tippet and big, hairy fly. While fishing from the shore I got my fly hung up about twenty feet up in a tree. I laid my rod on the ground, grabbed two handfuls of fly line and tugged like he**! The Castwell knot gave way but then again I did put a substantial amount of my large carcass into the effort. Well, really cannot blame my lack of common sense on the knot can I? :roll:
Hey, actually this is a darned good testament as to the incredible strength of the knot. It took a substantial effort from my big butt to get the knot to let go. I was really leaning into it when I heard a pop! I got the momentary thrill of a free fall just before the ground came up to meet me. Must have been quite a comic site me flopping around on the ground like a fish out of water, gear clattering everywhere. Glad no one else was there to witness it!:lol:
Yes I use, still, the Castwell knot.
I just nail knot it
Actually the nail-knot is a dandy union. Fun to tie, quick and you can cover it with Plio-bond to taper it. Holds fine for smaller fish and goes through the tip and guides well. Often trout can require a leader much longer than your rod, making it necessary to bring the knot into the rod while landing a fish. Larger fish more often can be caught with a shorter leader that does not require it coming into the rod to land the fish.
All the steps involved above…nail knot’s…glues, perfection loops etc. Total way too much to do…if not necessary…and it isn’t.
JC’s Castwell knot is it. Peeriod. (yes…typo intentional…for my peers). If I had a line with a welded loop I cut it off! Yes…I will take a Rio Grande welded loop and cut it off.
I only use furled leaders with a loop already in the leader. No tools needed to tie the line to it with a Castwell knot. So simple can do it in the rain, in the dark…sooooooo fast and easy. I don’t change leaders that often. But if so…snip off the knot and Castwell Knot another on it.
It is soooooo simple and easy.
Nothing better in my opinion. Of course my opinion…is the only one I am an expert on.
Gemrod
BTW…give yourself a little test. Either do all the steps above icw adding loops…and THEN do a Castwell Knot. Or just READ all the extra steps involved above…and then DO a Castwell knot. You will then experience how quick and succinct and clean the knot is. And you don’t need amnesia and a loop between line and leader, wrapped nail knots…etc. Just a simple knot and you are done. Go fish.
Interesting that none of the replies says anything about anyone using “line connectors”. The type that I’m referring is the plastic oval shaped ones with opened ends and exposed middle. They come in clear and orange colored. As long as there are no pre-exisitng loops, the connectors are simple to attach by threading both leader and fly line through each end and tying a suffiicient knot head in the exposed middle of the connector. I tie my own leaders and changing or replacing leaders are a snap with these connectors and they practically last forever.
I use only the Castwell, Knot and it has never failed. It is easy and fast to tie. I like using it with furled leaders as others have said. I have used the same leaders for many trips just changing tippet now and then. You can find very easy intructions to tie it in the knots section of the site. Just my 2 cents John