What to do with 2-spool salt water outfits

FAOL Community Fly Anglers Online
1

While we’re on the subject of matching (or mismatching) lines and rod and reels (another thread), I have a question less theoretical on a pair of surf and flats outfits: With a pair of identical reels plus spare spools, and an 8 rod and an 8/9 rod, what would you suggest doing with the four spools. If we bought them, my wife and I would fish them mostly at the same time, so there could/should be some level of basic duplication. It could be complete duplication, with each having a changeable shooting head system on one reel, and, say, a rocket taper floating line on the other. But it seems that once you have a shooting head system, you have floating, intermediate, and sinking/sinking tips covered, and the spare spools are not needed. That is, why not do the system all the way, with the running line on one spool, and a vest full of tips?

And given Lefty Kreh’s suggestion of underlining and overlining according to conditions, there could be a couple of sizes of a type of shooting heads, here and there.

Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated,

Busbee

2

Depends on the depths of the waters being fished. For most flats fishing a WF-F on one spool & a WF-I (intermediate) for those adjoining waters up to 20’ deep or for casting the waves breaking on the beach with the spare spool. With a #8 weight for one set up & a #9 for the other rod. If the waters are deeper go for the heads, but it still might be quicker to change spools than the heads 8)

3

Busbee,

Wow, you?re a long way away. How?s the fishing?

As far as lines go, as Dave said, it depends on the fishing you do:

From shore, wading or in a skiff over shallow flats, a floater and an intermediate would probably be the way to go.

If you fish from shore or wade flats where you?ll be fishing over a mix of shallow flats and channel edges, drop offs etc, I?d use a floater and a fast sink tip.

From a boat, fishing flats and a mix of water depths, I?d use a floater and a full sink using a grain weight matched to your rod, maybe up to a 275 gr on the 9/8 and a 250 on the 8 if you’ll be over really deep water.

In salt, I mostly use a full line rather than shooting heads, especially sight fishing on the flats with a floater . Advantages of a full line:

You can pick up and recast much faster since you don?t have to get all the running line back in the guides.

You can also do a reach cast with a full line to present the fly in front of cruising fish that are moving 90 degrees to you for a better presentation allowing the first few strips to be in front of the fish instead of away from it.

And you can ?measure? the distance with a full line to a fish before dropping the fly or redirect your cast while it is in the air a lot easier.

For blind casting to unseen fish in current, a full line lets you mend more effectively than a shooter

If you?re wading, what will you be doing with the excess line? Running line tends to pick up floating stuff and is easy to lose sight of in the water. A shooting basket helps, but running line tends to get blown out more than a fly line in salt because of wind IMHO.

Personally, I?m more apt to use shooters in freshwater for steelhead, where I want quick changes because water depths can change around each bend, different water release conditions, and/or water I?ve never fished before so I don?t know what I?ll be running into.

In salt, having a spare reel (rather than a wallet with different shooting heads) can also be a very good thing in the event you get spooled, or your reel blows up. A spare spool allows for more flexibility too, since I?ve had handles come off on fish (the screws snapped).

Maybe the way to go would be to get 2 floaters, and as spares, an intermediate 8 and a type 2 sink tip on the 8/9. You could both fish shallow stuff with the floaters, and for deeper water you?d be able to fish similar but slightly different depths, and you?d have another option if you (or your wife) fished alone.

Hope this helps.

peregrines

4

Busbee,

If you will be fishing with your spouse, then you need two identical set ups.

You do not want to be in the situation where you hear ‘why are you catching fish and I’m not?’ and having to explain that your line is ‘different’ (she’ll hear ‘better’) and is letting you catch fish she can’t…

What those lines will be depends on where and how you’ll be fishing.

Certainly one set needs to be floating lines.

After that, it’s completely up to you.

Good Luck!

Buddy

5

Buddy, you old sexist. Why do you assume I will be the one catching fish and she will be the one complaining?

Well, actually you are right. And I would do as I always do if my fly is working and it is the last one we have: I would give here the spool of line that is working. Not that she asks for it, but it is in my self interest for her to catch a lot of fish. But she’s good and doesn’t need a lot of help.

But I do see the wisdom of your suggestion. We should both have the best setup for the given situation.

As I wrote in the post, they would be for surf and flats.

Thanks,

Busbee

6

peregrines,

Again, an amazing amount of information, all nicely laid out. I copied, pasted, and printed it.

And you and Dave agreed on floating and intermediate.

Thanks,

Busbee

PS perigrines - the fishing, LMB, is great.

7

If you are aboth knowledgable fishers then let her buy two lines of her choice and you buy 2 of your choice. You could share if there were differences and advantages.

jed

8

Busbee,

Some thoughts on the shooting head idea - I use a shooting head system for about 75% of my angling, 2/3 of that 75% is surfzone and inshore saltwater.

The type of water that I employ shooting heads includes, surf, bays from 6 to 30ft deep, kelp forest, reefs, open ocean, river estuaries and deltas, canals, lakes (trout, bass, pike, walleye, panfish).

The shooting head (SH) system provides great versatility on one spool. They are not the best if delicacy in presentation is required. With practice, they can be cast quite accurately. Not a great choice for flats. Great for making long casts and covering lots of water.

When you cast a shooting head, for best shooting performance you must have a few feet, typically 2-5, of the shooting line extended beyond the rod tip. This is usually referred to as ‘overhang’. Too much overhang and the thin shooting line cannot support the head during the cast and the cast falls apart. For this reason, the head must be retrieved at least to the rod tip to begin the cast, so you can’t quickly pick up and re-cast.

With shooting heads of 30 ft or less, typical guidance is to upline by two line wts compared to your rod’s rating. This is because rods, especially the 7-8 wt and heavier range, are designed to load optimally with 40-45 feet or so of a standard line. Uplining a head by 2 helps make up the difference in load between a 30ft head and a longer amount of a standard full length line. This is why makers of integrated lines like the Teeny T series, S.A. Streamer Express, Orvis Depth Charge, etc will recommend matching a 300gr line to an 8wt rod for example.

With shooting heads, underlining usually gains no advantage and often is of disadvantage. One of the reasons some people, Lefty Kreh for instance, recommend underlining, is to make casts in a strong wind. The rationale is to extend a longer amount of a lighter line to provide the same load as a shorter amount of a heavier line, shoot less, and take advantage of less air resistance to a thinner line. However, with a shooting head system, if you try to extend too much overhang, the shooting line is too light to support the head and the cast falls apart. The shooting line is typically lighter than the running line portion of a standard line also, so to do not increase the load as much by extending overhang deeper into the shooting line.

Anglers will give varying advice for which type of shooting heads to use in terms of density. Some may suggest ‘Type III’ or 'Type VI" or ‘250 gr’ or ‘350 gr’ or whatever. Be aware that a “Type IV” from one manufacturer may sink at a different rate that a “Type IV” from another. Or one 300gr head may sink at a different rate than another. I look at the specified sink rate of a head to make sure I get one that sinks as I wish, at the line rating (9wt, 10wt, etc) or weight in grains (250gr, 300gr) etc to match to the rod. All SH manufacturers have data sheets with the pertinent information.

I will usually have 4 to 5 heads to match a rod: a floating head, an intermediate head, one with a 3-4" sink rate, one with a 5-6" sink rate, and a custom cut head made from Cortland LC-13, Rio T-8, Rio-T11, or Rio-T14 for a very fast sinking head since these lines sink at about 8" sec. On my 8wt, this custom head is 27" of LC-13.