What to do when there's no room to cast?

FAOL Community Fly Anglers Online
1

I had a frustrating experience in my first venture to a small “pocket water” type creek featuring lots of logjams, overhanging trees, and thorn bushes. Some of the pools were so small I don’t think I could have managed to get enough line out to make a cast even if there had been no obstructions. In other places, roll casts were the only option, but sometimes even there I couldn’t get enough line out to make a decent roll cast.

Now I realize the main thing for me to do is just learn to cast better – I’m still very much in the novice stage. And I will keep practicing.

But two questions:

  1. I was using an 8 ft., 4 wt. rod with a moderate action. Might it have been any easier if I’d been using a faster action rod?

  2. Is there a good book I could look at for suggestions for how to deal with these situations?

Thanks.

Barracuda

2

:smiley:
Baracuda;
Try a Furled leader. It can be cast by it’s self. Works well for flippin under the tree’s/

3

I had a frustrating experience in my first venture to a small “pocket water” type creek featuring lots of logjams, overhanging trees, and thorn bushes. Some of the pools were so small I don’t think I could have managed to get enough line out to make a cast even if there had been no obstructions. In other places, roll casts were the only option, but sometimes even there I couldn’t get enough line out to make a decent roll cast.

  1. I was using an 8 ft., 4 wt. rod with a moderate action. Might it have been any easier if I’d been using a faster action rod?

Been there, done that :). A 6 or 6.5 ft., 4wt. might be a little easier. Think about a shorter fly rod :D.

4

Consider dapping, especially if you are fishing an area where you can legally stay out of the stream. Get near the pool’s edge with as little distubance as possible, poke your rod tip out over the water and drop your fly down to the water. Try jigging it up and down a few times and then let it settle

5

Barracuda,

Pocket water small streams are by far my favorite type of fishing. Accuracy and inovation are at a premium here, and losing flies to stuff around and above the water is commonplace, even if you are ‘good’ at this type of fishing.

If there ain’t room to cast, then there isn’t room to cast. By ‘cast’ I mean the classic overhead or even the old standby ‘roll’ cast. Both of these require a minimum amount of ‘room’ either above, in front of, or behind the fisherman.

Still, you can find a way to get fly onto the water. Little ‘flips’ with a minimum of line and the leader. Flicking the fly with just the leader out. Dapping the fly onto the water just at rod length distances. Bow and arrow casts are also a good option. Even moving upstream and letting the current carry the fly to fish as you feed the line out.

And, while a shorter rod requires less ‘room’ to make a regular ‘cast’, sometimes a longer rod will work better in these obstructed conditions simply because of it’s longer ‘reach’. It’s a trade off, certainly, but your 8’ rod is certainly adequate for this type of fishing with a bit of practice.

In these condtions having enough line out to ‘load’ a rod is impossible. The slower the action of the rod, the easier it will be to get some enertia behind any of those little ‘flips’ and ‘flicks’ that you will have room for. Cane rods shine for this. They have their own ‘mass’ and will load and unload gently and predictably regardless of the amount of, or lack of, line out the tip.

Understand, though, that this method of presenting a fly is a learned skill like any other, and you can learn to do it with ANY rod you choose. They all will work.

While figuring all this out, just be prepared to go through a bunch of flies. Don’t be afraid to try to get a fly into anyplace you can see. If you can draw a line from the rod to the spot, then, theoreticly, you can get a fly there. Sometimes you’ll miss, sometimes you’ll get hung up, but sometimes you’ll be amazed at what you CAN do, and the fish you’ll find in those tight spots.

On really obstructed streams, where I know that ‘casting’ will be unlikely, I prefer a soft 9’ 3 wt. rod. I can stick this rod ‘through’ piled brush, reach over log jams, and flick a fly to a about 15-18 feet without having to do much more than roll my wrist. Having a nice fish take a fly at rod tip length where you can see it, and THEN trying to wrestle it through all the stuff between you is an awesome experience.

If there may be some casting room, I’ll opt for a 6’ 6" 2 wt., which is a great little close quarters casting tool. A buddy of mine borrowed it one day and landed a 23 inch brown on it. Loads of fun.

I even have a little 4’ 6" rod that I’ll use on some little streams where I don’t have to walk in too far (It’s one piece), that’ll let me roll a cast anyplace I can stand. Not far, but it will cast.

Gotta love those tight little streams. Each fish is an obstacle overcome or a problem solved.

Good luck!

Buddy

6

Hold the fly in your hand. Push the rod tip in the direction you want to cast, loading the rod. While applying pressure and loading the rod gently loosen the grip on the fly until it is pulled from your hand. The loaded rod and loaded wrist will cast the fly. You can even slip a little line to get some extra distance.

jed

7

I simply admire those types of situations and move to a spot where I can actually fish, especially since it’s unethical (and illegal in some places) to use a lightweight McCullough chain saw to make an opening to accomodate my skill level. :shock: :lol: :shock: :lol: :shock: :lol:

Joe

8

Here are a few things I learned from the experts and from experimenting.

The bow-and-arrow cast, described above by Jed, the rolling bow-and-arrow cast, the flip cast. I also lean my rod to the side and make a roll cast that runs low to the water, allowing me to put a fly under a low hanging branch. I can’t think of its name right now. Joe Humphery describes a squeeze cast. A quick squeeze of the rod hand to create a short cast in tight areas.

I use an old 7 1/2 foot slow action six weight for tight conditions. The heavier line weight makes it easier for me to cast (load the rod) with a small amount of line outside the rod tip. A faster rod might work with a lower line weight. A short leader makes things easier. If you can get by with a heavier leader, you may be able to retrieve some flies from the trees and brush. If you do try to pull a fly out of a tree, be very aware of disturbing a possible wasp or hornet nest. In thight brush, you don’t have room to run! :o

I think I’ll give furled leaders a try after reading this thread.

Credit for these ideas goes to the authors of many articles I’ve read.

9

There’s an outstanding video on fishing small streams by Joe Humphery. If you can find a copy, it’s certainly worth having. He covers most of the problems and situations that arise fishing small creeks, and gives lots of tips on how to handle the various situations.

10

A soft slow rod and a fly line a few sizes too heavy that can load the rod with a couple feet out the tip with a quick flip of the wrist. The heavier the line the less line needs to be out the tip of the rod to properly load it for tight situations. It is easier to feel the softer rod load and you have more room for error in getting the timing of the cast exactly right.

11

I second the furled leader suggestion. I use a furled leader almost all the time, but I feel they truly excel in these conditions.
I also use the “bow and arrow” regularly on small streams.
the third “cast” that I find helpful I refer to is a flick cast. I’ll below and off to the side of the pocket I want to fish, with the rod out over the water and the line downstream, in the water, and just ‘flick’ the rod to propel the fly upstream, keepin the line and fly close to the water and under any vegetation.

12

That is one reason I bought that 5’3" Fenwick. That paired with the FURLED is manageable. 8)

13

I usually move upstream and feed the line down. This also works well in areas with alot of conflicting currents. You miss a lot of hook ups this way because you are pulling the fly out of the trout’s mouth, but at least you are getting into some fish.

Regards Mike

14

I’ll second Joe’s Video / DVD…and add that It can be easily obtained from Flyfishers Paradise in State College PA…Phone# is (814)234-4189 www.flyfishersparadise.com

The Vidoe covers everything that George Harvey passed along to Joe, And contains a segment of fishing with George…

15

I love small stream pocket water fishing. I agree with the furled leader and bow and arrow advice listed above.

I have also been successful using a downstream drift to get into areas to tight for casting.

Stand upstream of your target area and layout several feet of line onto the water, letting the current take the fly and line. Flip the rod tip to throw a small mend in the line. making a slight ‘S’ in the line just above the leader, this will act as a shock absorber and prevent addtional line manipulation from telegraphing movement to the fly. Strip out line and continue to throw small upstream mends as the line drifts downstream. With practice you will be able to toss an extra 3-4 feet of line with each mend. Try to keep the line straight except for the ‘S’ (shock absorber) and the last mend. Be ready to strip in aggressivly to take out all slack if you get a strike. When the fly has past the target area let the current straighten out the line and swing the fly to the bank. Slowly strip in the line to avoid disturbing the area and repeat.

16

Barracuda:

Take all the great advice given by others here because it’s all about experimentation and what works for you.

I fish a lot of REALLY SMALL dinky creeks. When I say small, I’m talking about three feet wide or less in places with barely any room to even move a rod.


Add to this situation; trees, Rhododendron, sticks, rocks and other things waiting to grab my fly. The other problem I have is I prefer to fish dry flies so a certain amount of false casting becomes desirable since the rough and tumble nature of the creeks I fish quickly pull a fly under if it isn’t floating well.

What has worked for me is:[ul]* A rod that fits the situation which can mean a 6’6" a lot of the time and soon a 5’6" rod will be added to the quiver.

  • A rod that loads at SHORT distances. Bamboo or glass excels in these situations.

  • A SHORT leader, (I have 5-6 foot leaders I made for the purpose), or NO leader at all, just tippet attached loop to loop with the end of your fly line. I want the rod to load immediately, hence the short leader. If you have SOME fly line out of the tip top you can flick a fly with just about any rod.

  • Keep moving! I prefer to fish upstream and for some reason it seems that in many places I fish, the next hole above is easier to approach, and less difficult to cast. Sometimes leapfrogging until you find an open spot is the only way to keep your sanity.

  • PATIENCE!! It can get very frustrating fishing small streams.[/ul]I haven’t tried a furled leader because of the tangling that can occur if you pull it free from a snag in a tree. Knowing how many tree snags I usually encounter where I fish, this could be a disaster but maybe I should give it a try.

Have fun! Small streams like I fish can be a blast and you can end up with fish like these:

17

Bamboozle,
That looks like the places I go on occassion, that is why that little FENWICK I found in a pawn shop appealed to me.
For the record, W.W. Griggs makes a nice little 6 foot 3 weight for $29. Fun on these types of trips with nothing ventured and nothing gained situation.

18

Wow, that is a stunning amount of unbelievably good advice, suggestions, tips, and experience, which I very much appreciate. Thanks to all.

One question. Those of you who mentioned the Joe Humphreys video – do you mean “Casting Approach to Dry Fly Tactics in Tight Brush”? If not, do you remember the title? Thanks.

Barracuda

19

Bamboozle,
That looks like some of the places I fish in northern Michigan. Can someone point me to further info on that W. W. Grigg 6’ 3 wt rod mentioned in the thread and where I can buy one? I put together a 6’6" 2wt PacBay that’s not entirely satisfactory for such applications (although it’s acceptible)and I’d really like to try the 3 wt - especially at a cost of only ~$30! Wonderful!!

Bill

20

I got mine at Sportsman’s Warehouse. They are in Utah & Idaho. Maybe try to find them on line and see if they can get you hooked up.