I have primarily been a dry fly fisherman. I would like to turn that into an all around fly fishing catcherman. Aside from the obligatory wooly buggers and leaches, what streamers would you recommend for the Rivers of Northern Idaho? I fish the North Fork of the Coeur d’ Alene and the St. Joe. When I’m really lucky I fish the Lochsa and the Selway. All these rivers hold Westslope Cutthroat and they have responded well to the Red Humpy and the Royal Coachman, but I would like to learn sub-surface tactics.
Thanks Ahead,
Joe -
This is about the only streamer I fish, because it works everywhere I fish streamers for all the types of trout here in SE Idaho. It has taken some of the larger cutts that I’ve caught on one of my favorite cutthroat streams.
It is an easy streamer to tie, it is durable, and it is very effective. Another pic for scale.
I have tying instructions in the form of a PM I’ve sent to several BB members who have inquired about it - let me know if you are interested.
John
That’s a nice looking fly. It look’s like a classic bunny leech substituting squirrel for the rabbit strip. You can add lead wire wraps for a heavier fly. Instructions from Hatches Magazine for the pattern:
http://hatchesmagazine.com/page/may2006/176
With a squirrel strip:
http://flyillusions.com/wp-content/newgal/album/slides/squirellsculpin.html
The FAOL flytying section has the pattern using a squirrel strip also.
http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/fotw2/051605fotw.php
John mailed me one of those flies and I’ve now tied a dozen of them with and without beads and/or weight in different sizes. I gotta tell ya, the action when you twitch that fly is amazing. They zig and zag and look so completely alive that I’m convinced they will catch trout in any river that has trout in it.
The fur strip leech patterns are great flies.
I haven’t tied them with squirrel strips yet. The wide collar pushes water and sends out vibrations to attract fish. They are great in stained and dirty water. One disadvantage, at least of the bunny leeches is that they get water logged and are heavy flies. I suspect they squirrel ones will do the same. Get yourself a 7 wt rod
I’ve got to get some squirrel strips.
The fur strip leech patterns are great flies. They are good for bass also.
I haven’t tied them with squirrel strips yet. The wide collar pushes water and sends out vibrations to attract fish. They are great in stained and dirty water. One disadvantage, at least of the bunny leeches is that they get water logged and are heavy flies. I suspect they squirrel ones will do the same. Get yourself a 6 or 7 wt rod
I’ve got to get some squirrel strips.
Silver -
Interesting collection of similar flies on the links you supplied ( the fly in the second link appears to be virtually the same fly ).
I know at least three other fly tiers who have come up with the same basic pattern independently. Except, the others use weight and / or other materials in addition to the pine squirrel zonker. My version uses only hook, thread, and pine squirrel.
Personally, I don’t like weight on this fly because I fish it as a sculpin / baitfish off a full sinking line and I think weight changes the movement, and not for the better. Interesting that you refer to it as a leech. Weight would make it more effective if that is what you are fishing it as.
NightAngler1 has another very interesting variation that he calls the Hibernator. He incorporates some flash material ( believe it is polar chenile ). I fished one of Leonard’s and did quite well with it. But I couldn’t get the hang of incorporating the flash material in the fly.
John
P.S. I haven’t had a problem with this fly getting waterlogged and too heavy to fish. I routinely fish it on 3 wt and 5 wt rods with a full sinking line with no problem. You can use the micro pine squirrel zonker strips on size 12 nymph hooks for smaller water / smaller fish, and could probably fish those with a 1 wt or 2 wt.
Listen to John as he knows of what he speaks … this fish was not caught in a river but it was caught on the fly pictured above…
Thanks a lot John. The brown pictured here is my first brown, and then by far of course my largest… Love the PSCer…
My first ever Brown …
My largest ever brown on the same fly that caught my first ever brown, the PSC is now enshrined and retired to my super fly display…
John,
I’m sending you a PM. I’m very interested.
Thanks,
Hi Lotech,
If you’re looking for a few patterns, after the PSC (which is a winner for sure), I would also suggest one of mine (Hammlim minnow) which is listed as a fly of the week here. Also, Blue Charms are a good streamer pattern when tied small for trout rather than salmon sized. Cossebooms have also worked really well for me on some New Zealand Rainbows. And a mallard and claret, tied long, is very useful. And don’t forget the Micki Finn, and other bucktails. Hmm, if they like royal wulfs, then a light or dark spruce might be worth a try. In fact, a royal coachman streamer would be a must try (think extended body royal coachman body, and tie in some white hackles as the streamer wing).
Another simple pattern style is the New Zealand Matuka style of streamer. They are quite simple to tie, once you get the hang of wrapping the rib through the feather tied onto the shank. I’m pretty sure there is one listed as a fly of the week.
- Jeff
Add a conehead to that and you have a ‘slumpbuster’ just one of the many great flies developed by John Barr (ie, copper john)
here is a recipe…
Ken -
Not just a conehead to make a slumpbuster - you also need to make a nice shiney body with something. Starts getting complicated, doesn’t it ??
Not taking anything away from John Barr, for sure, but I wonder what the “slumpbuster” that he actually fishes looks like ??
Just a few thoughts about weight, since Joe is looking at how to get started fishing streamers.
Seems to me that the weight makes for an unnatural movement in the water, compared to the unweighted fly. “Getting it down” is the usual reason for adding weight. I don’t necessarily buy that - the biggest fish I’ve had on, a mid to upper 20 inch brown on the Henry’s Fork, came up from the bottom and slammed this fly before it had a chance to “get down.” I had made two short strips, just enough to get the slack out of the line - the fly probably wasn’t 6" below the surface when he hit it. That was a very typical take.
My experience when I first started fishing this streamer exclusively and extensively ( I’d have to check my notes, but my recollection is that I fished it 40 times in '07 and caught well over 400 trout with it ) was confirmed by an article that I read last year in one of the fishing magazines. The point was that when minnows and other baitfish get out in open water, they stay high in the water column, quite close to the surface. Big fish are used to looking up for small fish out in the open water.
Another article confirmed my experience about fishing this fly unweighted. An article by Art Lee in another magazine - from the mid '70’s, as I recall. The article was actually about fishing a streamer high in the water column DURING A HATCH. I have fished this fly in the middle of a good hatch a number of times with great results. I doubt that a weighted version of the fly would work as well in that situation ??
Fishing this fly, and most other streamers, off a full sinking line will get it down and preserve a more natural movement. Fish going after “injured or wounded baitfish” is another reason for adding weight to get erratic movement. My thought is that if all the big meat eating trouts out there waited for injured or wounded baitfish to come by for dinner, they would starve long before you had a chance to catch them with a very natural, healthy looking little sculpin / baitfish pattern.
Not just this fly, by the way. I fished Jeff Hamm’s Hammlim Minnow and his Vanessa streamer the same way late last summer on the South Fork and the Henry’s Fork. Caught some really nice fish with them - actually, I was surprised that such small streamers took such big fish ( a couple cutts in the 18" range and a 21" brown on the South Fork on Vanessa, for example ) in such big water !!
John
P.S. Ray - WOW, those are some nice fishies you got there !! I’m still hoping to get up your way this summer, and your pics didn’t do anything to dampen my enthusiam for fishing some rivers in SW Alberta.
You might also try a Royal Coachman streamer. Tie the body the same as the RC dry, no tail, for the wing I usually use white buck tail or marabou, then 3 or 4 wraps of brown hen hackle. They catch a variety of fish for me. Terry
You might also try a Royal Coachman streamer. No tail, white wing such as buck tail, marabou, etc., and 3 or 4 turns of reddish brown hen or bugger hackle.
The pattern tied with a rabbit strip was named the bunny leech. I’ve tied it for about 30 years.
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=bunny+leech&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
Scott Sanchez’s famous pattern, the double bunny, uses two strips of rabbit fur rather than wrapping a single strip around the hook. By using a dark over a light strip, it is more imitative of a bait fish. This fly’s durability and fish catching ability was proven by winning the One Fly contest 3 times. It is now banned from this contest.
I think using squirrel strips instead of the rabbit strips would make a great “double squirrel” fly.
I agree totally with your view on using a full sinkling line and a relatively unwieghted fly. Kelly Galloup also prefers full sinking lines. “For ultimate efficiency in almost all situations, we use sinking lines. We believe the most effective line is a weight-forward, full-sinking line…”
Silver -
Scott Sanchez’ Double Bunny is, indeed, an awesome fly. And it is easy and fun to tie. If the PSC wasn’t so easy to tie, so durable and effective, I would go back to using the Double Bunny as my primary baitfish streamer.
I’ve actually run across a “double pine squirrel” streamer on another website, but I can’t remember which one. I thought about trying it, but the precut pine squirrel zonkers are a bit on the narrow side for the glue up involved in the double bunny. Also, I haven’t seen any really light colored pine squirrel zonkers. I did think about bleaching some as an experiment but just haven’t gotten around to it. Perhaps I should cut some wider strips and bleach some to see what can be done.
While we are talking neat streamers, the Thunder Creek minnows are reasonably easy to tie, fairly durable, and pretty effective, for those who have and like to tie with bucktail. I haven’t tied many and never got very good at tying them, and probably won’t. But they are a good streamer for a lot of situations. The Thunder Creek patterns can also be tied with synthetic hair / fiber material to good effect.
Getting back to Joe’s questions about taking up streamer fishing, sink tip lines are another option, and most of the guys I know around here prefer sink tip lines to full sinking lines. I think most of those guys are fishing from a drift boat, where it would make more sense to have the advantages of a floating line and some of the benefits of a sinking line. I flat out do not like casting sink tip lines and, as a wade fisherman, the full sinking line works better for me - easy to cast and gets the fly under the surface, and deeper on a longer cast or in slower water.
John
Hi John, good points about the weight. I mistook the head of your fly to be a lead bullet weight, painted gold.
The photo I posted is from Charlie Cravens web site, he did the photography for John Barr’s recent book, including that image of a slumbuster. John tends to tinker with his fly patterns. I think his book mentions the slumpbuster in many styles, weighted, unweighted, with or without the flashy body. I included the link to Charlie’s site because the instructions and photo’s are so good.
In John Barr’s book he mentions that he purposely adds weight to the head of the fly for a ‘jigging’ action. His theory is that extra weight in the head causes the fly sink with the head down, making it look more natural. Without weight streamers tend to sink butt first, since the hook bend is the heaviest part.
The weight thing is confusing to me. Seems like there are advocates of both camps. Some guides on the North Plate use double cone head buggers! Kelly Gallop is a strong advocate of using unweighted streamers (like his ‘zoo cougar’) with a sink tip or full sink line. Yet in his book ‘Fishing Streamers for Trophy Trout’ he shows pic’s of his fly boxes which are also filled with a strong selection of conehead bugger’s and conehead madonna’s!
I have tried the non-weighted streamer with a sinking line, but on the fast moving rivers I fish (North Platte, Arkansa, Upper Colorado) it’s hard to get an unweighted streamer down more than 6". Even with my full sink line rated at 7 ips. Maybe my local water runs a little faster than yours, it’s got a lot of class II/III whitewater. During the spring runoff I need to get down at least 3-4 feet to find fish. So I tend to fish weighted flies and a fast sink tip. Later in the fall I can find fish in shallower water.
To address the ‘natural movement’ issue I often use a large heavy weighted streamer as a point fly, then use an unweighted streamer tied off the bend of the hook. I often get as many takes on the lead fly as I do on the dropper. Color and size seem to be a bigger consideration.
There are good sculpin and crawfish populations my local water, not so many minnows. I have always assumed that trout are hitting the fly thinking its a sculpin or crawfish. Since both are bottom feeders wouldn’t you want to fish them deeper than 6"?
Ken -
If I was fishing water like that ( “it’s got a lot of class II/III whitewater” ) I would likely be a weighted streamer person myself. The water where I fish streamers has what you would probably consider slow riffles and soft runs. That would probably make you an advocate of the approach I’ve been describing. Makes the point that we all encounter such different conditions that no one method is right for everyone.
One of the places I have had notable success with the PSC is the lower Henry’s Fork. When you wander around the little side channels and back waters in that area, they are just loaded with minnows that are almost exactly the same size and color ( uniformly dark green ) as the PSC. They are the ones that likely ride high in the water column in open water. The browns absolutely love them, whenever and wherever they find them.
The South Fork has a lot of sculpins. Yes, they are a bottom feeder and that is where you will most likely find them. However, the silhouette of the PSC closely matches the general outline of the sculpins, and the color is a good match for those in the South Fork. So it comes together quite nicely for me.
I think the weight thing and the sink tip line thing around here might find a dividing point whether you are in a drift boat or wading. I know that on the South Fork, it is like night and day, and I think what works for the drift boat guys gets carried over to their wade fishing, and to other wade fishers. I never do drift boats, so I started with an approach that works for me. Handling a floating line with a sink tip or throwing weighted flies is a lot easier for the drift boat guys, at least the ones I talk with. They don’t want to try to manage a full sinking line as they cruise down the river pounding the banks. And I don’t want to be using a line I don’t like to cast or weighted flies, which I also don’t like to cast, while out in the riffles and runs stripping a streamer.
I realize that if I used their streamers and tactics, I might catch a lot more fish. And if they used mine, they might catch a lot more fish. The point is, people keep doing what they are doing because they like doing things that way and the results are good enough to keep them at it. Give someone enough days in a row where he / she is skunked, and they’ll start re-examining their approach - flies and tactics.
One other point of departure comes up in streamer fishing moving water. Kelly Galloup and I are probably polar opposites ( for a LOT of reasons ) in that regard. He generally, I think, advocates fast stripping while using the rod tip to help move the fly at the same time. Works for him, and a lot of other people. I strip about 6-10" with a fairly slow and steady rythm. Works for me. Again, it’s probably something in the water.
Your points will certainly help Joe if he is going to be confronted with the kind of water you are describing. If he is fortunate to have water like I have around here, he might do better with the approaches that have worked for me, or similar ones.
John
Ken -
If I was fishing water like that ( “it’s got a lot of class II/III whitewater” ) I would likely be a weighted streamer person myself. The water where I fish streamers has what you would probably consider slow riffles and soft runs. That would probably make you an advocate of the approach I’ve been describing. Makes the point that we all encounter such different conditions that no one method is right for everyone.
One of the places I have had notable success with the PSC is the lower Henry’s Fork. When you wander around the little side channels and back waters in that area, they are just loaded with minnows that are almost exactly the same size and color ( uniformly dark green ) as the PSC. They are the ones that likely ride high in the water column in open water. The browns absolutely love them, whenever and wherever they find them.
The South Fork has a lot of sculpins. Yes, they are a bottom feeder and that is where you will most likely find them. However, the silhouette of the PSC closely matches the general outline of the sculpins, and the color is a good match for those in the South Fork. So it comes together quite nicely for me.
I think the weight thing and the sink tip line thing around here might find a dividing point whether you are in a drift boat or wading. I know that on the South Fork, it is like night and day, and I think what works for the drift boat guys gets carried over to their wade fishing, and to other wade fishers. I never do drift boats, so I started with an approach that works for me. Handling a floating line with a sink tip or throwing weighted flies is a lot easier for the drift boat guys, at least the ones I talk with. They don’t want to try to manage a full sinking line as they cruise down the river pounding the banks. And I don’t want to be using a line I don’t like to cast or weighted flies, which I also don’t like to cast, while out in the riffles and runs stripping a streamer.
I realize that if I used their streamers and tactics, I might catch a lot more fish. And if they used mine, they might catch a lot more fish. The point is, people keep doing what they are doing because they like doing things that way and the results are good enough to keep them at it. Give someone enough days in a row where he / she is skunked, and they’ll start re-examining their approach - flies and tactics.
One other point of departure comes up in streamer fishing moving water. Kelly Galloup and I are probably polar opposites ( for a LOT of reasons ) in that regard. He generally, I think, advocates fast stripping while using the rod tip to help move the fly at the same time. Works for him, and a lot of other people. I strip about 6-10" with a fairly slow and steady rythm. Works for me. Again, it’s probably something in the water.
Your points will certainly help Joe if he is going to be confronted with the kind of water you are describing. If he is fortunate to have water like I have around here, he might do better with the approaches that have worked for me, or similar ones.
John
Lots of ‘statements’ made in these posts that may or may not be ‘true’ so, in the interest of full disclosure…a differing view:
Hydrodynamics is a complex topic, but it’s something that many of us ignor and just assume that all ‘things are equal’ and what is true on the vise applies to the waters we all fish in…unfortunitly that’s not true…
An unweighted streamer will not sink ‘butt first’ because the hook bend is the heaviest part of the hook…Unless it’s not tied to anything…The difference in weight from the beginning of the bend to the hook point isn’t all that much ‘more’ and the dressing of the streamer causing drag above it offsets most, if not all, of it. Then there’s that pesky piece of fishing line we have to tie to it…
The fly will sink either slightly head first or ‘level’, due to the drag of the line…even in stillwaters (I’m assuming a sinking or sinking tip line here). The fly will follow the LINE almost always. If you want a fly to sink butt first, you need LOTS of weight…believe me, I’ve worked on this for years, trying to get a fly that will do just that. Even with the weight, you need slack or the drag of the line negates the rear weighting. It’s pretty much impossible in moving water without a lot of weight and amazing mending ability.
With a floating line, the unweighted fly will sink ‘level’ if you have slack in the line, and like a pendulum if the line is taught…if the line is pulling on the fly due to drag, the fly will follow the line…it really can’t do anything else.
Head weighted flies will do that cute ‘jigging action’ thing everyone talks about, as long as there is ‘slack’ in the line, and the line is light enough…and there isn’t any current. Otherwise the drag of the line, just like the unweighted streamers, will cause it to fall level or slightly head down and, again, the fly has to follow the pull, so if you are pulling up, or down, the fly will go that way…
Regardless of ‘what’ is in your own waters, minnow/fish eating fish will look up for their quarry…they are ‘camoflaged’ from ‘above’ so they hug the bottom so that their quarry won’t ‘see’ them…they are genetically programmed to do this, and will do it everywhere they exist even if there are ONLY bottom dwelling minnows present (yes, they’ll eat those too, but they will also eat stuff above them). Browns especially, where ever they live, are vulnerable to a shallow streamer under the right conditions…
You can see this clearly if you just look at the fish…where are it’s eyes? Above centerline on the sides of the head. The place where the vision of both eyes overlaps is where? ABOVE and in front of the fish. Most predator fish feed upwards because they are built that way…Trout have to tilt themselves to a rather odd angle to be able to feed ‘below’ them…they do so, but it’s not their ‘natural’ feeding position.
A weighted streamer moves ‘differently’ than an unweighted one but I wouldn’t say one moves more ‘naturally’. Real fish have weight and mass exceeding what most unweighted streamers do…plus their own motive force and thus momentum…most streamers don’t move anything at all like a ‘real’ fish (be serious, NOTHING ‘real’ moves like that in the water)…it’s just that real fish aren’t very smart and it just doesn’t matter if we mimic life effectively. All we have to do is make it look something like food, and they eat it (good thing, other wise we wouldn’t catch very many fish).
Weight isn’t bad nor good on a fly, it’s just that weight is another option so that the fly sinks to the depth you want it to sink to. If you are just letting the current carry the fly, the weight combined with the type of line will determine the depth it ‘drifts’ at…if you are pulling on the fly, then current speed (thus ‘drag’) plus all the rest will come into play.
Since all rivers are different, and can even change hour to hour on any given day, it’s prudent to carry several options with you as far as weights and lines go.
I know streamers are effective, but there isn’t ‘one’ that’s always effective everywhere (well, I do have ‘one’ but it’s tied in lots of differing weights and sizes;)).
Buddy