I must say I am in the market and this is a timely thread, not intentionally to hijack but I am a bit surprised of how many responses included felt soles considering the implications that can arise from fishing multiple streaches of water…
I am looking at zip ups but it will be with some other material other than felt.
Checkout the new Korkers for sure the Chromes are pretty sweet!
I think you are in part refering to the photo of the felt soled boots I posted. Allow me to explain.
My view is that there is no way to prevent the spread of invasives short of separate sets of gear for each watershed. Better than rubber bottom wading boots is to have a separate set of wading boots for each river system. Rubber soled boots still need to be chemically treated and completely dried. I suspect most fly fishers will not treat their boots nor will they wait until they are completely dry.
My other view is that rubber boots do not equal felt soled boots for traction and safe wading.
These two beliefs have lead me to have different sets of wading boots for each river I wade. I have a separate set of boots for the Madison River and another set for my local river.
I have 5 new sets of Borger boots in reserve for any new rivers I may fish. It helps that I got the boots free since my friend owned the company that manufacturs them. I don’t think that many boots are really necessary. Two are sufficient to allow one set to dry completely while you use the other set.
I’ve had a few pairs of Korkers and eventually grew disappointed in them. I had issues with laces breaking too often, and there is a definite loss of surface area of the sole due to the manner that the interchangeable soles fit in. I do think they are very versatile in allowing for interchangeable soles, and I used that feature quite a bit as I was bluelining mountain brook trout streams.
I bought a pair of Simms G3 Vibram soled boots, as Didymo is becoming an issue here in the Adirondacks. They worked okay on our big boulder strewn rivers, but once I put in the Hardbite cleats they were awesome. My unofficial estimate is that the bare Vibram rubber soles offer 75% the grip of felt, and the combination of rubber and cleats gives 110% the grip; that is to say, I find them superior to traditional felt soles.
Silver,
I use the same kind. After 4 seasons, the felt is getting thin. Have you had your felt re-soled on yours?
aa
I would return the boots to Weinbrenner for resoling. When my friend owned the company, they would resole and even repair the boots at a very reasonable cost. I have studded soles and they last much longer.
You can call them at 715-356-5521 for options and pricing. Wenbrenner has a factory outlet store that occasionaly has seconds of wading boots. They will also send you first quality boots at wholesale plus a UPS shipping fee through the factory outlet store.
I would return the boots to Weinbrenner for resoling. When my friend owned the company, they would resole and even repair the boots at a very reasonable cost. I have studded soles and they last longer than the unstudded felt soles.
You can call them at 715-356-5521 for options and pricing. Wenbrenner has a factory outlet store that occasionaly has seconds of wading boots. They will also send you first quality boots at wholesale plus a UPS shipping fee through the factory outlet store.
Thanks alot for the response. I have been meaning to get another pair. and send these in. Thinking on trying the “light weights”. I love my Propex boots though. They accomodate my wide feet well, and are the most comfortable wading boots I have used. Hard to beat considering they are one of the last holdout, truely made in USA, boot manufacturers out there.
I like Chota. A great Tennessee sporting company that has always offered a good product, as well as great service.
Been using their wading boots for about 6 years now.
Lightweight, comfortable, fast-drying, affordable and durable, plus they look like wading boots.
First pair was the Abrams model. Never did really wear them out, just upgraded to the STL’s.
Check them out! I see they are an FAOL sponsor also!
Are you sure that number is correct? I tried to call them but was told the number is no longer in service.
Check this out http://www.wadingshoesusa.com/resoling/index.html
I must say the Weinbrenner appeals to me with the stacked heel, gotta be more stable than the incorporated kind. I have a cheap pair of Orvis now that are starting to need replacing. My biggest beef with the Orvis is they are soooo tight when I first put them on. Is shrinking a prob with the Weinbrenner? When ordering is adding 2 sizes to your normal shoe size a good rule of thumb? I havent had much luck with ordering footware size wise.
Korkers, because they gave me a pair just for participating in a contect they had on Facebook.
-Roy
Just a thought, my husband has always had trouble with his toes getting bumped, or crunched, or something that made the nail turn blue and fall off like it had been hit, and he finally got rid of that problem with the Cabelas Ultra Light. Very comfortable and seem sturdy, and $50. We got the studded felt and it feels much grippier than the studded aqua stealth we have been wearing. Switch them out, let them dry, and you should be safe for moving little beasties from place to place.
ONE set has to suffice for the vast majority of folks.
But then will the “vast” majority of folks both clean the boots and allow them to COMPLETELY dry before going to another river? And will 100% of those decontanminations be 100% effective for ALL invasives? I’d bet that they will not.
Hence, I stand by my position that the only sure way to guarantee a boot will not cross contaminate is to have separate boots. Let me put it this way. Having separate boots is and will be more effective than changing from felt to rubber soles.
Rubber soles are at best a half-a**ed attempt. Better is to take that felt soled boot that you cannot use in some states and use it for your home water. Do not take them anywhere else.
Then use the rubber ones for travel. Allow them to completely dry between trips.
My view is that we will buy a number of different boots over our fishing lifetime. I also believe that boots wear out due to their usage. So does it matter if you buy 3 new boots that each last years for a total of 15 years, or 3 new boots that you use in three different water sheds over those 15 years? In each example each boot lasts an average of 5 years of total use. But only the last example guarantees that none of the boots will spread invasives between the 3 watersheds.
But then will the “vast” majority of folks both clean the boots and allow them to COMPLETELY dry before going to another river? And will 100% of those decontanminations be 100% effective for ALL invasives? I’d bet that they will not.
Hence, I stand by my position that the only sure way to guarantee a boot will not cross contaminate is to have separate boots. Let me put it this way. Having separate boots is and will be more effective than changing from felt to rubber soles.
Rubber soles are at best a half-a**ed attempt. Better is to take that felt soled boot that you cannot use in some states and use it for your home water. Do not take them anywhere else.
Then use the rubber ones for travel. Allow them to completely dry between trips.
My view is that we will buy a number of different boots over our fishing lifetime. I also believe that boots wear out due to their usage. So does it matter if you buy 3 new boots that each last 5 years for a total of 15 years, or 3 new boots that you use in three different water sheds over those 15 years? In each example each boot lasts an average of 5 years of total use. But only the last example guarantees that none of the boots will spread invasives between the 3 watersheds.
But then will the “vast” majority of folks both clean the boots and allow them to COMPLETELY dry before going to another river? And will 100% of those decontanminations be 100% effective for ALL invasives? I’d bet that they will not.
Hence, I stand by my position that the only sure way to guarantee a boot will not cross contaminate is to have separate boots. Let me put it this way. Having separate boots is and will be more effective than changing from felt to rubber soles.
Rubber soles are at best a half-a**ed attempt. Better is to take that felt soled boot that you cannot use in some states and use it for your home water. Do not take them anywhere else.
Then use the rubber ones for travel. Allow them to completely dry between trips.
My view is that we will buy a number of different boots over our fishing lifetime. I also believe that boots wear out due to their usage. So does it matter if you buy 3 new boots that each last 5 years for a total of 15 years, or 3 new boots that you use in three different water sheds over those 15 years? In each example, each boot lasts an average of 5 years of total use. But only the last example guarantees that none of the boots will spread invasives between the 3 watersheds. What is the better solution?
This situation requires us to challenge traditional linear thinking. “Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought”…Szent-Gyorgy
oh I agree, and you are right. It does not change the simple fact that most of us can almost afford $120-$150 for a pair of boots every 3 or 5 years, but can NOT afford $360-$450 at one shot for 3 pair of boots.
What about waders, fly lines, flies, etc? Granted, boot soles probably carry the most amount of debris. Many of the invasives we worry about are microscopic though… do we need an entire suite of equipment for each watershed? What about other river users: kayakers, canoeists, ducks, herons?
You are of course right about the other gear and other users of the water, not to mention migratory birds and other wild life. But the topic was about boots, and there was a specific question about why some folks still recommended boots with felt soles. My answer was to that specific question from my perspective.
My honest opinion is that invasives will spread regardless of what we do, and the only question is how fast they will spread. We cannot prevent it with rubber soles for the very reasons you mentioned. I happen to think that rubber soles will give fishers a reason NOT to decontaminate.
I have said on other threads that even if decontamination was effective, the fact is that there is not a single decontamination method that will work for all invasives. Some work for dydimo but they will not work on NZ mud snails or whirling disease. So you have to pick the invasive that you want to protect against. Who will take the time to research what to do for every invasive?
The other problem is that decontamination with some solutions actually shorten the life of waders and wading boots. Download this State of California DFG study on methods of decontaminating for New Zealand Mud Snails to see the damage done to waders and boots.
http://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.ashx?DocumentID=3867
Rubber soles are a simplistic solution to a complex problem. My solution is separate boots. Plus without the need for decontamination, the boots will also last longer.
I apologize for the length of my reply. But one does use separate boots without a reason, and if you are to understand why I do it, I need to explain why.
First to answer your question, you are of course right about the other gear and other users of the water, not to mention migratory birds and other wild life. But the topic was about boots, and there was a specific question about why some folks still recommended boots with felt soles. My answer was to that specific question from my perspective.
My honest opinion is that invasives will spread regardless of what we do, and the only question is how fast they will spread. We cannot prevent it with rubber soles for the very reasons you mentioned. I happen to think that rubber soles will give fishers a reason NOT to decontaminate. It is an impossible task to police every angler and watershed user.
I have said on other threads that there is not a single decontamination method that will work for all invasives. Some work for dydimo but they will not work on NZ mud snails or whirling disease. So you have to pick the invasive that you want to protect against. Who will take the time to research what to do for every invasive?
The other problem is that decontamination with some chemicals actually shorten the life of waders and wading boots. Download this State of California DFG study on methods of decontaminating for New Zealand Mud Snails to see the damage done to waders and boots.
http://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.ashx?DocumentID=3867
In January or 2007, the EPA and The Federation of Fly Fishers published a white paper on Dydymo. The white paper says:
“While decontamination will not destroy all invasive species, cleaning procedures minimize the possibility of spread. These simple treatments effectively destroy D. geminata algal cells (Kilroy 2005):” The white paper then goes on to recommend a 2% solution of bleach. Clorox is a 6% solution so a 2% solution 2 parts water to 1 part Clorox. Try putting just a drop of that on a pair of blue jeans and see what happens.
http://www.epa.gov/region8/water/didymosphenia/White%20Paper%20Jan%202007.pdf
So the both the California Dept of Fish and Game and the EPA recommend what I consider to be harsh chemicals. They also admit that there is no single magic treatment for all invasives.
Since chemicals destroy gear, I wondered what Patagonia and Simms recommended. Patagonia is the most ecologically minded of the wader manufacturers and Simms is the best know manufacturer. Here is what they wrote back.
Patagonia wrote:
"This is a very good question and one that comes up often. Our suggestion that has been agreed by all the resource folks we work with all over the West - National Parks, Forest Service, fish and game, universities, etc is to Clean, Inspect and Dry your gear after use. Remove all particulate matter, brush if you can, then rinse them and let them dry. Drying is a difficult part since anglers may be fishing for a week or so and moving to different watersheds. So do the best one can. I found that buying a brush and those flip top Rubbermaid containers cost $20. And I place boots and waders in the water (top between the flip top) and rinse as I dry to and from river. The brush I use when getting out of water to remove particulate matter. This is a great, inexpensive and handy way to reduce this threat. Think like a saltwater angler as you have to rinse all your gear well after use.
Using chemicals can create damage to gear. And we do not know long term issues with water, insects, hatch etc. using chemicals. This was the best method.
I asked Simms if there was one treatment that would kill all invasives. Here is an email I got from Simms on treatment of their Waders and Boots:
"I wouldn’t do more than a 4:1 ratio water:bleach. This will not void a warranty. From everything I have learned is that there is no one cleaner that can or will kill all of the different types of ANS. A little bit of cleaner will not hurt the bottom of your boots and a little bleach (or a detergent with bleach for colors) will not hurt your waders every once in a while. Currently though the two most important things are 1. Being aware and cautious of the problem, and 2. Rinsing your gear with fresh water after every use and letting completely dry before using again - especially if in a different water.
I hope this has helped you and please let me know if you have any questions. "
Thanks,
Simms Fishing Products
PO Box 3645
Bozeman, MT 59772-3645
Direct-dial 406-585-3557
Fax 406-585-3562
Patagonia recommends water only with scrubbing to minimize secondary contamination of the river ecosystem with chemicals. Simms recommends a 4:1 ratio of water to bleach which is half the concentration recommended by the EPA to kill Dydimo. They say it will not hurt your waders “every once in a while.” But what about every time you go to different areas?
Rubber soles are a simplistic solution to a complex problem. My solution is separate boots. Plus without the need for decontamination, the boots will also last longer. Plus I won’t contaminate the waters I fish with the residual chemicals on my boots, and I don’t risk damaging my other stuff with bleach or other chemicals.
I agree separate boots is a big one time expense. But it saves me a lot of work, won’t destroy my equipment or accidentally bleach my clothing, and won’t contaminate the river with chemicals.