What do I look for?

Fishing Paddling
1

Hi all,

My wife and I both flyfish and enjoy being on the water together. I have used float tubes, pontoon boats and canoes. We have lots of great water all around us…rivers, streams, alpine lakes. We are considering kayaks. I have looked at “cheap” equipment, Hobie’s, Old Towns, etc. and really need help with what to look for. In addition to the kayaks, what other equipment is needed/recommended? I want to keep the costs reasonable, but I don’t want junk either. Thanks in advance for the help and as always, Best Regards…

2

If you want to fly fish from it you need to consider stability - but the more stable (wider) it is, the slower/heavier it is… now don’t tear me apart guys for saying that, but as a rule of thumb for a novice that is mostly true. I have a Hobie Outback - the pedal drive is great. Don’t know how they run in the US but they are a little more expensive here, but you get a hell of a lot more for the price too- apples with apples, I think they are great value.

I also liked the look of the native Watercraft canoes that have been discussed here, I have never been in one but they seem pretty good too for flat water.

3

Joel:

Here are a few thoughts.

  1. The two major types of kayaks are recreational and touring. Recreational boats are in general shorter, wider, heavier, slower, and more maneuverable. They are more stable and the c?ckpits are bigger. Both traits make for better fishing platforms. Touring boats are longer and narrower, faster, go straight easier and usually require more developed skills to turn efficiently. You want to go far and fast you want a touring boat. You want a fishing boat you want a recreational boat. Sit on top (SOT) kayaks are a subset of recreational boats that many people find ideal for fishing. Touring kayaks have sealed watertight chambers at both ends so they stay afloat even if you swamp the boat. This is not necessarily true in rec boats ? a concern if you screw up in the middle of a lake. There are some great hybrid boats that are nearly as fast as touring boats but as stable as rec boats. The Current Design Krestel 140 falls in this category.
  2. Kayaks tend to be made of rotomolded polyethylene, thermoformed plastic, or composite (fiberglass, graphite, etc). Rotomolded boats are heavy and have limited design flexibility but are largely bullet proof. Most rec boats are rotomolded. Thermoformed boats are just as tough but weight less and have a broader range of designs. They also cost 30 to 50% more. Composites are mainly used in higher end touring boats.
  3. The first rule of kayaks is that no one boat is ideal for everyone. It is likely that you and your wife will prefer different boats. So spend as much time as possible paddling and paddling and paddling before you decide. Kayak shops often have demo days and you can often rent boats at local parks, etc.
  4. You might spend nearly as much on accessories as on the boat. A good life jacket is essential. A high quality paddle costs $100 to $300 and most serious kayakers will suggest that a good paddle is essential for long trips. Roof racks for handling two boats can be very pricy.

You are about an hour away from a great paddle store ? NRS in Moscow (rt 95 just south of town). They are a major source of kayak accessories nationwide.

David

4

Gringo, David,

Thanks for the input. I am familiar with NRS. I hadn’t thought about them, so thanks. I have been looking around in some of our higher end sporting goods stores and a new Cabela’s is opening here next week. Maybe I was “helped” by the wrong sales person on two separate occasions yesterday. One couldn’t take his head out of a box of freight and the other told me that I’d be better off to find information on the internet…It’s no womder some stores close down before their paint dries. I hope to have better results at Cabela’s. Thanks again for the input…Best Regards…

5

Seems most of the guys here (that don’t PEDDLE a Hobie) go for the Ocean Kayak to rig out for fishing. Have a cruise on akkf.net.au

Chris

6

Joel;
Sorry, if I get this wrong, but I’m not all sure, if you’re asking about "strictly buying a kayak, or, some other flotation craft!?
You mentioned that “you’ve tried pretty much all of them”, so I’d ask myself: “Which did I like, using the best?” and “Which craft, did my BRIDE also like, using the best?” Also, transportation is a big consideration, when deciding on a flotation craft. Car roof rack? Trailer? Etc.
Just my OWN, opinion, (which is all, any of us can offer, of course!), is I love my pontoon boat, out of all the other craft I’ve owned and fished out of. It’s very light, white water approved, (to class IV), and fits not only onto the $10.00 homemade roof rack on my Honda CRV no sweat, but also into it’s own backpack… including the oars and hand pump! (It’s 5 ply, 8 foot, 365 pound capacity craft)
I sit much higher, than in a kayak, on my pontoon boat,also allowing, (for me, anyway),more and easier rod control when casting, and/or, mending a line. I can “look down upon” my fly line on the water, not “across at it”, like in lower craft.
When not in use, (very rare!, but, there ARE times!), it’s also a LOT easier to stow away, than a hard shell craft. If I get REALLY lazy, on a hot summer afternoon it also handles a 38 pound thrust trolling motor and battery very easily!
I loved playing in the kayaks I’ve owned, over the years, and for speed and agility there’s nothing finer! But, l just found that my “tooner”, was a lot more versatile, easier to transport, afforded more comfort and other, options, I didn’t have with my hard shell boats!

7

Joel

I fish from a Current Design Krestel 120, thermoformed yak. If you are seriously considering buying one, I would go to a dealer and try out different models and designs. I paddled allot of different boats, before I settled on the one I have now. With that said, the only thing I would do different is I would have bought the same boat but in a 14’ length. I do allot of river fishing and a rudder system would be nice to help me track straight went drifting down river, or drifting along the lake shore. I cannot install a rudder on my 12 footer.

Went I was testing different boats, I also took along a fly rod and would cast/fish from them. Just to get a feel for what it was like, but more importantly how stable was the boat. I can literally tip my boat to the point of taking on water and not flip it.

Another item that comes in handy is a half skirt. Also known as a work station. This goes over the cockpit to keep water out. This is a nice thing to have in cooler temps. It also is a place for stripped in fly line to collect without getting tangled.

Good luck!

8

gringo,

a dumb question. i am also looking at a kayak, to be specific a hobie revolution. i discounted the outback because of its shorter lenght, i’m 6’ 4 " , and i was told because of its width, 33" versus 27" it did not paddle well.

can you add anything to this.

thanks

9

I hope to have better results at Cabela’s.

Joel, we have a new Cabelas here too. They’ve been open a week.
From what I’ve heard, new Cabelas employees haven’t much of a clue

10

Thanks to everyone. I’m learning, so please keep the suggestions coming. Best Regards…

11

I’ve paddled, camped and fished out of a canoe for a good many years. Back when I first took up with a canoe the only ones that seemed available at the time where birch bark and wood canvas. At least that’s those where the only ones I ever saw. The birch bark the old technology and the wood/canvas the new. The only kayak I ever heard of was the picture of Nanok of the North, sitting in one, in my school geography book. After WW II came the aluminum and a little later the fiberglass and then the plastics. I’ve sampled about all of them and settled on an aluminum for the rough knock about and a custom built wood/canvas, that is my pride and joy and on ly sees service on placid waters!

I hear fly fisherman always talk about standing up to do their thing. I learned fly fishing from a canoe sitting down! And if I just gots to stand up, pull the canoe to the bank, get the waders on (lots of storage space in a canoe) and do a little wading and “distance” casting if need be (should point out that the vast majority of fish I’ve caught with a fly rod has been with 30’ and that’s an easy cast sitting in a canoe). Another thing I just love to do, either alone or with a fishing buddy, is a downriver float trip taking along a single burner stove and a frying pan and stopping off for “lunch” off fresh fish being the main course. If fact, we’ve even taken the 9’X 9’ dome tent along and spent the night riverside … to me that’s hog’s heaven! Fresh fish dinner next to a campfire. It don’t get any better than that.

Dale

12

As with other’s I can only speak from experience. On top of this, I live in Florida, so that may be a littl different from you location. I have been around a lot of fishing kayaks and, around here, they are almost exlusively sit on tops (SOT). They are easier to get into and out of, easier to rig and are more comfortable.

The first thing I would look for is a kayak in the 13 to 15 foot range with a tank well in the back. The tank well allows you to store things that you can get too without opening a hatch. Most will have a hatch in the front to store other items (camping gear, dry clothes, etc.). There are several that are very popular, the Ocean Kayak Prowlers (13 and 15 feet), Wilderness System Tarpons (120, 140 and 160), Heritage Marquessa/Redfisher (14 feet), and the new Ocean Kayak Trident to name a few. All of them weigh in at between 54 pounds and 65 pounds with 400+ pound capacity.

As far as equipment, the first thing you need is a good seat. One with good lateral and back support will run about $90.00. Some kayaks come with an acceptable seat. The second thing is a good paddle with asymetrical blades. There are a number of on the market in the $125 range. You can spend a lot more for very lightweight carbon fiber paddles, but, unless you are really going for distance, they are not worth it. Next you need rod holders. For fly rods, I recommend Scotty fly rod holders. One in the front of the kayak and one behind the seat on the non casting side. A good anchor trolley system can be added for minimal cost. And last, but not least, a milk crate.

13

I recently did research on all the kayaks and came to this conclusion(for me).

I didn’t want a sit-in kayak. Too hard to get in and out and I plan to do that a lot while fishing(to wade, etc.)

So that left sit-on kayaks or maybe a canoe.

Didn’t want an Ocean Kayak due to the molded foot rests(take up too much room and don’t allow you to put your feet anywhere you want wile fishing)

Didn’t want a canoe because they seem a little akward, heavy and relatively hard to maneuver for one person.

After looking at all the sit-on kayaks I thought it might be a little difficult to fly fish from for having to sit all the time.

I looked at a the Native Ultimate kayaks and thought it was the one for me. YOu can stand in it and fish, it is still light-weight and easy to carry and maneuver. It has provisions to make dry storage although there are no ‘dedicated’ dry storage areas. Lots of optional equipment.

For what I want to do I think it is the right ‘kayak’ for me. I have not bought one yet and may yet consider a sit-on type yet.

14

Didn’t want a canoe because they seem a little akward, heavy and relatively hard to maneuver for one person.

BBW:
There are some very solid reasons for liking kayaks over canoes but I am not sure you have hit on them. Take for example a very common solo canoe, an Old Town Pack. At 12’ long and 33 pounds it is neither awkward, heavy, nor hard to maneuver. In fact it is lighter than most sit on kayaks I am familiar with and will probably perform about as well as them. The OT Pack in turn is short, fat and slow compared to many other solo canoes. While it is true that kayaks tend to be faster than canoes, recreational kayaks and praticularly many SOT boats are the slowest of the kayaks and they are likely to only be faster than slower canoes (like the Pack or my discontinued OT Discovery 119).

There are reasons that kayaks can be preferred over canoes. They are less influenced by wind than canoes. It is also much less technically demanding to learn to paddle a kayak in a straight line than a canoe. There are, however, no perfect paddle boats that are best for all situation. The solution, therefore, is to start building a fleet of boats so you have one for every purpose. Hey it works for flyrods why not for boats?

If you end up with one of the Ultimate boats - tell us how it goes. There are a lot of great boats out there and the decision can be challenging (but less so if you plan on buying another in the future anyway).

David

15

a dumb question. i am also looking at a kayak, to be specific a hobie revolution. i discounted the outback because of its shorter lenght, i’m 6’ 4 " , and i was told because of its width, 33" versus 27" it did not paddle well.

John, that is rubbish. I’m 6’2" and 200 pounds, and in fact the outback would be more comfortable for you. You sit right down low in the outback with all your gear around you, it is a very “safe” feeling boat and incredibly stable. The revo is a beautiful boat too, but you are a bit higher and while it is also stable it “feels” a little less so.

I test drove the outback and the revo side by side together in a lake before I bought. I also used the standard fins and the turbos. The ST fins were not out yet at the time. There was not much in it speed wise, yeah the revo is a little faster, but side by side the difference is very little. John, the bottom line is that if you went away with a mate and you had the outback and he had the revo, you would not be lagging behind - in bursts he would be ahead, but if you had a 4 cyl car and he was in a v8 how far behind would you be? If you are not racing then the other practicalities of fishing mean you won’t be far away. The Revo on standard fins and the Outback on turbos are about the same speed - but the Outback is a drier ride. The Revo is a tad lighter too.

There is not much in it mate - they are both a beaut yak. Maybe in retrospect I might have preferred the revo due to weight, and it is also “paddlable” if you want an upper body workout, but the outback is a great boat for fishing and certainly a comfy beast. The guy who sold me reckoned all big fellars find the outback the comfy one. It’s no good to paddle though - too wide.

16

6’1’ top the 300 mark and love my Outback…I do not find it all that difficult in Paddleing it…Not that I’ve seen a need to Paddle it all that often!!! Thanks to several discussion’s on this board, I’ve actually found myself paddleing it more…As fishing with the Peddle drive locked in, In the reverse direction has been very handy fishing Chronomid’s DEEP this fall…As well as while Dapping with the Onset Rig… I may never use an anchor again!

17

Try out the Hertige Redfish 14ft angler you will love it for all your fishing needs.