I picked up some antron dubbing that I have yet to sit down and use but I have a question…
Is this stuff WATERPROOF…? NON water absorbant?
Previous materials Ive used ( and not much at that) would absorb water and get to the point they sink!! I want something that doesnt get water logged and will depends mainly on the tail and whatever hackeling I put on to stay afloat
I’ve never found any dubbing to be completely waterproof, even synthetics that don’t absorb it. I use biots for the majority of my dry flies that I don’t incorporate foam into; if I do use dubbing, I keep it very sparse and spin it on the thread as tightly as possible. Then I rely on good floatant and hackle (or CDC) to keep it on top. When it sinks, I try to squeeze the water out and get a few more casts, after that I switch flies.
Regards,
Scott
Sully, contemplate Gink. Even if you have dubbing whose fibers are impervious to water, the fact that dubbing is many fine strands will tend to make the spaces between those strands fill with water and thus become waterlogged. Gink or other such floatant can help to prevent that. Gink should be applied before wetting the fly, as it can trap moisture in the material as well as help to exclude it. Some people Gink their dries from the comfort of their homes long before those flies get close to a stream.
Shake can be used to help remove moisture from a waterlogged fly, as can a vigorous false cast or three.
Have fun,
Ed
“They” say that fur bearers, like beaver, muskrat, and snowshoe rabbit, produce the most water absorbent dubbing. Dunno, just heard.
A fellow once told me the only thing “proof” came in a bottle.
If your using natural furs for dubbing then go with water animals like beaver and muskrat. Their fur doesn’t absorb water like hare and squirrel.
Most man made materials developed for dry fly dubbing are water resistant or water proof. If these aren’t dubbed tightly enough water will get into the spaces between the fibers and sink the fly. The only material I know of thats hydrphobic (repels water) is polypropylene. That makes good dubbing but has limited colors.
A little floatant helps a lot, no matter what dubbing you use. I prefer mucellin as a floatant for flies, leaders and lines.
Just my .02
REE
I don’t think of Antron as being particularly water proof. I’ve got some Kapok dubbing that’s very water proof, the stuff was used in life preservers in the old days. Even it will sink eventually, as was demostrated in the aftermath of the Titanic. While the K-dub floats well, I don’t like the way it dubs. I think foam is the most disappointing floatation substance. If it’s compressed or not applied just right it won’t float well either, though you think it should.
I’ve had great luck with Harrop’s Professional Dubbing, which is flax based and has some preen oil added to it. It’s my dubbing du Jour, though I also really like natural fur like muskrat. I fish a lot of dry flies, and the dubbing is very important, especially on comparaduns and no-hackles.
Eric
Try Watershed, it keeps your fly floatin.
I have some dubbing made from kapok, the material used to fill life preservers in the good old days. It definatly floats…
Not to jack the thread, but can Gink be used with any of the shake-and-float type deals? And how well does it work at 32 degrees?
Sully,
A permanent water proofing treatment applied to all your dry flies will allow you to use any dubbing/body material you choose without caring about it’s water absorbing characteristics. Rabbit floats as well as beaver or muskrat, and synthetics as well as naturals…
Or, just do away with dubbing altogether…plain thread works as well…buy sewing thread, waterproof the entire spool before using, and tie your bodies with that…no foul little air spaces to fill with water and drag down your flies…
Jeff,
Gink and ‘dry shake’ type treatments don’t mix. The water absorbing material in the dry shake sticks to the Gink. When it hits the water, the stuff stuck to your fly absorbs all the water it can hold, quickly and effortlessly sinking your fly. Using both is like adding weight to the fly.
And,
Even if you waterproof your flies, once they get dirty…fish slime in particular, you have to CLEAN them before they will float right again. Sometime all you need is a bit of a rub and rinse underwater, sometimes it requires some soap (a bit of dish washing liquid in a small squeeze bottle is effective) to get the slime off (Dubbed body flies are hard to get this stuff out of…almost always needing the soap). Fish slime is a pure wetting agent. It gets on/in a ‘traditional’ dry fly, the fly sinks.
( a nymph fishing trick…to get them to sink deeper faster, rub them on a fish…)
Buddy
“no foul little air spaces to fill with water and drag down your flies…”
Yup- that’s what makes dubbed body flies sink. I loved the ads for microfibetts treated with Watershed to make them waterproof; the fibers don’t absorb water anyway- just a sales thing. A very light app of a paste floatant helps to seal the air spaces, keeping water out. Once the “seal” is broken, the fly sinks.
“( a nymph fishing trick…to get them to sink deeper faster, rub them on a fish…)”
…but you gotta catch one first!
Chuck
Okie doke people. Mucho thanks and I’ll paste all these comments into a word doc so I’ll have them at hand. Much appreciated.
Buddy: Any suggestions to what a permanent waterproofing might be? Product name that is??
Sully- I’m going to give you my 1 1/2 cents first. There’s no true permanent waterproofing for flies. The acts of casting, retrieving, and laying the fly back out, over and over again, will eventually remove any floatant. If ol’ Buddy has something of which I’m not aware, I’ll be forever grateful. Remember- he recommended just using thread for the body. It won’t wick up water like dubbing will.
Chuck
I understand…I think I’ll try and work up something though. I went thru my tieing materials today ( lord where did I get all that stuff???) and have various small diameter acrylic yarns…very small diameter…so I test floated a piece about 4 inches long. Took more than 45 minutes for it to take on enough water to sink just below the surface…so I might try wokring with that first.
I can see Im going to have to order hooks though…geeze
Chuck,
I may have something for you…
I use a ‘waterproofing’ liquid made to waterproof fabrics (boots, camping gear, stuff like that).
What I use is called ‘Silicone Water Guard’. It comes in an aerosol can. I get it in the camping section at WalMart. I’m sure you can get similar products at any camping supply or sporting goods store that has a camping section. I like the one I found at Wally World because I’ve tested it out and it doesn’t change the colors of, or degrade the materials in, my flies.
I spray it into a glass container to concentrate it into a liquid. After tying a dry fly, deer hair bug, or anything I want to float, I toss them in the container and let them sit there until they are saturated with the stuff (usually for five minutes up to an hour…can’t soak too long…sometimes I just let them stay in it overnight). Take the flies out and let them air dry on a paper towel.
That’s it…flies float without any additional floatant until they get dirty or slimed.
I also ‘pre treat’ the threads I use for my dry fly bodies with the same stuff. I soak the whole spool in the waterproofer, then let it dry before tying with it.
You can ‘pre treat’ lots of things if you want to. Dubbing, feathers, hair, any absorbent fibers.
So far, once I use this stuff, the fly or bug floats. No need for chemicals on the water.
Once the fly gets slimed, though, and rinsing isn’t enough, I have to wash the fly in soapy water. Once this is done, the fly returns to it’s pre-slimed condition.
Buddy
Thanks much Buddy. Ive copied this post and pasted it into a word doc to keep. I’ll look for that product and search and see if its even sold already in a liquid form.
Much appreciated
http://www.atsko.com/shop/catalog/Silicone-Water-Guard-Arrow-Treatment-p-16231.html
Silicone Water Guard ARROW TREATMENT… Water proofs arrow FLETCHING ( feathers!!!)
Doesn’t “water shed” work?
Silicone Grout Sealer !
http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/readerscast/readerscast20091012_tom_Deschaine.php