Warmwater midges, scuds and nymphs

Fishing Warm water Forum
1

Hi Folks,

I’d like to share some of my experiences
with the above flies in warm waters and
solicit yours. I know that many/most of us
really love taking bluegills and red eared
sunfish on surface flies, poppers, hoppers,
and sliders, but it’s been my experience for
a number of years that going subsurface
increases the action. Among those that
fish subsurface, many prefer leggy non-
realistic looking kritters spawned in
science fictions Black Lagoon.G Yes, they
do work, but has anyone elses experience
been like mine, that day in and day out, you
will get more action and catch more fish
fishing with flies imitating midges, scuds
and nymphs? In other words, the normal
bread and butter kritters that these fish
routinely subsist on?

It has also been my experience that in

my warmwater lakes here in SC, these flies
are normally more effective in sizes larger
than one might fish in a coldwater stream or
lake. I have tied thread midges on hooks up
to a number 8 and had good success, though
I normally tie most of my flies in a 12 or
14. I believe these would be considered
pretty large for most trout fishermen.

I have also come to the conclusion that

bluegills and red eared sunfish will often
hang together. When nymph fishing waters
that seem to have a good mix of both, the
nymphs (normally a PT for me) will catch 4
to 6 bluegills for every redear I catch.
A thread midge will often provide me about
an even mix of both fish. A scud pattern
will normally provide me a mix of 3 to 4
red ears for every bluegill.

Simple thread midges in grey, olive,

or brown work well. Any nymph with pheasant
and or peacock or ostrich herl is effective.
Scud patterns in creme, olive, grey or orange have proven effective. I do have an
order in to Ronn for materials to try his
iredescent flashback scud because the darned
thing looks so daggone buggy.G I’ll let
ya know how it works for me.

I'd be interested in hearing how

others experiences might compare to mine as
well as any patterns you might prefer.
Warm regards, Jim

2

First, a question. (Couldn’t let you off the hook Jim. )

When you are fishing these patterns, how are you doing it? Slow retrieve? Under a ‘bobber’ of some type? (either VOSI or dry fly) Some other way?

Thanks,

Don

3

My reply.

So far, I have had some success with PT, zugbugs and GRHE nymphs oh and sunken SHWAPFs in various colors. I have tried some scuds and a couple of thread midges (this year) and have had very limited success with them. I usually do not suspend them under some sort of floating whatever, however.

Mostly I have my best success using different sizes of wooly buggers and the above listed nymphs.

Don

4

Hey Don,

Actually, I fish these flies both with

an indicator as well as without. Normally
with a friend along, I’ll fish a topwater
fly and fish a nymph or scud on a dropper.
However, when alone, I normally fish these
flies without an indicator and rather
slowly. Slow enough that a partner might
lose patience.G The only exception being
when grass or structure makes it much
easier to use an indicator to keep the fly
out of it. Warm regards, Jim

5

I have used all three.
Catch aot of gills on nymphs of various sorts.

Also get alot of fish aon midges, usually as a dropper under a foam fly of some sort.

I don’t put much action on them. I have them from size 14 to 22. Various sizes work better on some days than others.

Rick

6

Well, after YOU convinced me to do so, I experimented with scuds and other more realistic stuff. I definately caught fish on them, but I ended up catching a lot of smaller fish, including shiners out the wazoo! But as you know, I generally fish a more riverine environment. That may well make a difference. I also almost always did a dropper set up, because I couldn’t shake the feeling I was missing strikes when I fished without a floating fly to serve as an indicator. I haven’t yet tried a scud or midge on my new home lake (Jackson in central Ga.) I’ve been fishing the rivers above and below, but with my typical leggy patterns. I’m anxious to see where this thread goes. O sultan of scuds! G
Swamp

7

Hey Swampy,

You definitly tie a mean scud buddy.
Those I have of your tying have been very
effective for me here on the lake. I would
assume they would do you a good job on your
new lake as well.

Rick,

I listen to everything you say about
gill fishing. I can imulate it all day and
am hard pressed to duplicate your numbers.
I’m convinced that your body must secrete a
substance not unlike that found in Joes
Special Protein Drink, and through handling
of your flies, they become saturated with it.G Or perhaps mine is secreting a most
effective fish repellant.G Warm regards,
Jim

[This message has been edited by Jim Hatch (edited 06 October 2005).]

8

I usually use my favorite wooly worm for the gills, but I don’t take many bass and never have had any crappie on flies. I’ve been wondering about using nymphs, scuds, and the like for quite a while. I’ve never tried poppers, but usually will try different wets and dries, or terrestrials. I’ve also never tried fishing with a dropper, never have gotten the nerve, I guess.
I’m not certain about our entemology cycles in the lakes around Kansas City, water quality varies greatly depending on public/private access. I know we get mayflies on private water, but haven’t seen them on the County lakes. Midges are a no-brainer, we have mosquitoes. Dragonflies and damsels we’ve got, but I rarely see any of the subsurface dwellers to know when and what to throw.
I’m going to get me some smaller (#16-#22)hooks and try some of the aforementioned flies around here. I gotta figure these fish out, I’m tired of whipping the water into a white foam and not catching more fish than maybe one or two all day.
Our warm-water won’t be warm for much longer, though. We’re in a cold air mass right now and the high temp was 56F. For comparison, Monday’s high was 87F.

There’s almost nothin’ wrong with the first lie, it’s the weight of all the others holdin’ it up that gets ya’! - Tim

9

Jim,

For warm weather fishing for bream, either softhackles or scuds are my go-to patterns. Like you, I take my time and fish them slowly. For late fall and winter bream, I use the Carter’s Dragon which is weighted with eyes to get it down deep where they hang out in cool water. The Carter’s Dragon when tied in black or olive or a combination of both colors, I consistently get very nice bream all winter here in Georgia. When tied with bright colors of white and chartruese or purple, I end up catching more crappie than bream.

Top water action is loads of fun for both bass and bream, but I consistently catch more and larger fish sub surface.

Jim Smith

10

Jim,

I have found that it made it a whole lot easier for me to scout the shorelines of the local canals, ponds, and lakes (rivers and creeks I fish more topwater) for local insect fare. Damselfly and Dragonfly nymphs I use imitate the local naturals. I use a Marabou Damsel Nymph in all black (with a silver wire rib and xsmall gray beadchain eyes)
[url=http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/beginners/part14.html:a97ad]http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/beginners/part14.html[/url:a97ad]

on a size 10 (an aberdeen or dial-a-hook) medium shank hook and a brown/tan (I use tan) Dragonfly nymph on a size 8 (medium shank). I tend to use the Damsel nymph more and get real good results (on those waters where the natural is present). I fish it straight line usually and creep it real slow along the bottom. The fish will bite it when it hits the water, on the drop, and on the retrieve. I don’t have as good of success with the naturals where there are few or no naturals like faster waters of some rivers and creeks so I have better luck on the surface for rivers and creeks.

Typically I don’t use many flies below a size 12 because I don’t need to when larger sizes will do the job. If the fish become too educated, I may have to go with some smaller sizes. I don’t use scuds as much as I probably should but the ones I do use are a size 10 or 12 in cream, white, tan, or pearl type transluscent. I don’t use midges, at least I haven’t had to yet.

Robert B. McCorquodale
Sebring, FL

“Flip a fly”

[This message has been edited by dixieangler (edited 06 October 2005).]

11

Thanks Jim,

I found your pattern on Petes site. I
had just finished some chartruese and white
for crappie this fall.G I’ll try some
black ones per your pattern. Noticed you
didn’t add the legs. I usually don’t either. Curious about what water temp you
switch to the Dragon? Would love to get
together and wet a line and swap some lies
one of these days. Give it some thought.G
Warm regards, Jim

12

Thanks Robert,

I think you and Jim have pointed out a
serious weakness in my fly inventory. I
have not been fishing dragon nymph patterns
for gills and redears at all. And the
darned dragonflies are quite proliffic here.
Thanks! And if you can get up this way
the door is always open.G Warm regards,
Jim

13

Jim, don’t ya recall when I told ya that redears loved scuds and sowbugs? Still one of my favorite flies to catch 'em.

14

Jim Smith,

Do you happen to have a link for the Carter’s Dragon? I usually use the Dragonfly nymph on the Invicta site. This pattern is pretty good and about the most realistic I’ve seen (I use no weight other than beadchain eyes). I sometimes use the specified hook style in the pattern recipe.
[url=http://members.tripod.com/invictaflies/id244.htm:84c5e]http://members.tripod.com/invictaflies/id244.htm[/url:84c5e]

I have been experimenting with some other Dragonfly nymph patterns like the Predator by Skip Morris and just haven’t gotten the results I want yet.

Jim Hatch,

You have got to try a Damselfly nymph (check size and color for your area). Its the most productive natural imitation I use. The fish don’t even think twice about biting one. I guess they are so used to an easy meal . Only problem is that the bream take the fly deep (guess it passes for the real thing ).

Robert B. McCorquodale
Sebring, FL

“Flip a fly”

[This message has been edited by dixieangler (edited 06 October 2005).]

15

I love midge fishing and last spring I started carrying my midge box with me to the farm ponds I fish. I was fishing a #12 caddis with a size 20 midge dropper. I got not one hit on the caddis but the bream tore up the midge. I started fishing the midge without an indicator and had great success. I’m sold on warmwater midge fishing!

16

I use all kinds of subsurface “coldwater” flies for carp. Especially soft hackles down to an 18.

17

Hey RG,

Sure do Buddy. Scuds are my primary
red ear fly. I normally alternate between
two rods while fishing. One is a scud and
the other one isn’t. G I just ordered
the goodies to tie some of Ronn Lucas’s
irredescent flashback scuds. It’s the
buggiest darned scud I’ve ever seen. If
the red ears like it half as much as I do,
well, their just in trouble.G Take a
look. [url=http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/fotw2/062402fotw.html:a02e6]http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/fotw2/062402fotw.html[/url:a02e6]
Warm regards, Jim

18

Hey Robert,

I just checked out the pattern you
posted for the dragonfly nymph. I’ll tie
some up this weekend and try them out next
week. I’ve got to try a couple with the
florescent chartruese I was using for my
green weenies.G By the way, the green
weenies have been hot on bluegills here
this summer. I can’t get more than half
an hour out of one before they have chewed
all the fuzz off of the chennile.G

Moturke,

Danged buddy, if your only getting one
or two gills a day, you’ve got the patience
of Job. In my waters, I could fish a plain
gold hook and get more than that.G Drop
me an email with your snail addy and I’ll
send ya a care package, seriously! By the
way, all of the “Too Simple” series flies
that Al Campbell posted here are excellent
bluegill flies, and oh so simple to tie.G

Idabellangler,

I found out about the midges same way
you did. Got some in a swap and fished them
under a popper. Didn’t take long to decide
the popper was just extra baggage. Couple
of years back, I hit the red eared sunfish
on grey thread midges one afternoon in a
cypress swamp. I caught over 50 in a couple
of hours that ranged from 1 to 3 pounds.G
Not a single bluegill, all big redears.

Brian,

I've only caught a few carp on flies.

All of them grass carp. PT nymphs or green
marabou “grass flies” on all but one and
he took a dremelbug popper. Stuck his nose
out of the water and sucked it right in.G
Warm regards, Jim

[This message has been edited by Jim Hatch (edited 06 October 2005).]

19

Crappie…black ghost streamers are VERY effective & believe it or not, I have caught some really nice crappie on a prince nymph!
As many of you know, I fish farm ponds a great majority of the time. A few ponds have “grass carp” for weed control…Here’s a tip for you in waters that have them. After a grass carp works an area, wait a few minutes, then hit that area with scuds & hang on! The grass carp (white amur) stir up the weedbeds & basically chum for you!
Mike

20

I love to throw big ugly bugs on top with hare’s ear nymph droppers. HE’s are VERY buggy. The brimskis love 'em.