But, unless they can prove that you ‘knew’ that you had ‘whatever protected species’ feathers, they can’t convict you. They don’t need to prove you ‘knew’ that that it was illegal (that whole ignorance of the law being no excuse thing), just that you knew they were from that bird…basic legal premise. The reason for such a premise is simple…it keeps folks from being framed…i.e; if I gave someone a fly tied with banned feathers, then dropped a dime on them…see the problem?
And Jared,
Conspiracy in this country requires an ‘act towards completion’ of the consipiracy. The way it was expalined to us back in my criminal law class was that if three guys are discussing robbing the corner bank, they can talk about it all they want, no ‘violation’…but, the second someone in the ‘conspiracy’ goes out and acquires a gun, or some rope to tie folks up with, or a ski mask to hide their face, then it’s ‘conspiracy’. In the ‘real legal world’ conspiracy is seldom charged before the fact…it’s almost always an additional charge used when two or more folks are involved in the same crime…since they commited the crime together, the ‘conspiracy’ part is now very easy to prove…it’s also how to charge peripheral participants.
If you just talk about it, it’s not a violation. Especially in an open forum…they have to show intent to commit, AND the act…no intent here…
I have not and will not used illegal feathers, but I am curious. Anyone here know of anyone - or even heard of anyone - being arrested or fined for having a few “found” feathers?
yes, but the original post of knowing that the feathers were from a cardinal renders this argument moot. If I find a single feather, unless I got it from a legally harvested bird, I am going to assume that it is illegal to possess [sp?], as the majority of birds we will come in contact with are protected, with the exception of game birds, and for those you need a license to harvest. Chickens notwithstanding…and how many of us will come in contact with chicken feathers just laying around.
There was an artist a few years ago who was exhibting pictures made from found feathers glued to a canvas. Someone from U.S.F.G. attended the show and recognized the feathers as being from protected birds The artist was charged with possesion and attempting to sell them. I don’t really remember any more about it than that.
BUDDY BUDDY BUDDY you should get off your soap box and understand that some on this forum are trying to help with the original question. You just had to pick on FISHBUM and others. “Quote” I could care less obout sending a message to young people on a forum as this. He had feathers and wanted to know if he could use them. Some of us elders have good information to pass along and spend many hours teaching.
As for being checked by the feather patrol–If you have ever tied at a national show watch for the little man that asks lots of question about where and when he could get nice feathers. Ten shows checked twice. He will explain later who he is and show you his credentials. BILL
i would leave them feathers alone… a huge fine or and jail time could be the results of using any song bird feathers… what ya can do though, if you want unusual or exotic feathers that cant be bought is to do what i do… i go to the local zoos and ask for feathers… i usually make a small donation once a year 20$ which helps for food for the animals… get them to write a statement on those feathers that includes the birds they come from, name of the zoo, the time & the person who gives ya the feathers sign & date it… perfectly legal that way… keep the statmemnt with the feathers and a coppy of it if you take some of the feathers on a trip to tie with…
i usually go home with a sack or 2 full of feathers… heres a list of feathers i get from the zoos sometimes…
blue heron, mccaw, flamingo, owl, pheasant, and the list goes on… sometimes it varries a little…
hers a sample of what the statement would look like…
Wild Safari Zoo
I am giving feathers from owl, mccaw, and the jungle cookoo birds to (your name)
signed (the person giving away the feathers) 1:34PM 2-23-2009
how does asking a zoo to give you molted feathers make it legal to possess those feathers when having possession of those feathers is illegal by federal law:confused:
whats the difference between a molted feather found the woods vs a molted feather found in a zoo:confused:
is there a loophole in the federal law that states possession of molted feathers is legal:confused:
I think you are on shakey ground with this. A note from a zoo is not the same as a permit from the Federal Fish and Wildlife Department. I don’t think they, the zoo, can transfer that autherization from their permit to you to have those feathers in your posession.
Please cite the section of the migratory bird treaty or CITIES that allows a zoo to grant an individual autherization to posess feathers or other material from protected species.
Wow, this is crazy how up-in-arms people got over this… never knew there was this much emotion in found feathers!!!
But thanks for the info. Probably wouldnt keep a guy like me (i.e. completely lacking in common sense but with an enormous “oooo look at that” gland in my brain) from using them, but very good to know that I risk jail and RIDONCULOUS fines.
Bug, even if the zoo/rehab center/etc has a federal permit that would cover the feathers, anyone they give them to has to have such a permit as well. The permit is not transferable.
I say don’t, here in Mexico we do not have that problem, you can still buy Cardinals and other birds in pet stores and you can do whatever you want with them, in fact they are suposed to be a protected species, but you know … if you have the money you can buy it I just don buy from the balck market thats the only way I can contribute to protect our species down here
“The cases will be prosecuted by the U.S. Attorney’s Offices of the Eastern District of Washington, the District of Oregon, and the Justice Department’s Environmental Crimes Section. The maximum penalty per violation of the MBTA is two years imprisonment and a $250,000 fine; per violation of the Bald and Golden Eagle Act is one year imprisonment and a $250,000 fine for a first offense; and per violation of the Lacey Act is five years imprisonment and a $250,000 fine.” (I added the boldface)
Ray
From your link:
“The only legal exception applies to game birds. Only licensed hunters who kill them in season can keep and display them.”
Long ago I learned the media is not to be trusted in getting facts straight… But that statement is patently false. Almost all states allow the sale of feathers and skins of almost all game birds.
A notable exception is OR where the sale, purchase or barter of spruce, sage and sharp-tailed grouse feathers is illegal. Any and all of the three grouse are routinely sold on ebay.
IF an OR tyer buys one and has it mailed to him in OR the buyer commits a misdemeanor for buying, but the buyer and seller each commit a felony under the Lacey Act for illegal interstate transportation of said grouse. Even if the taking and sale of said grouse was 100% legal in the seller’s state.
Adding insult to the situation… Say the OR buyer arranges the skin delivery to a WA address, drives across the border and picks it up, there is no crime…
I am arranging a collection of these ridiculous regulations now… But if you want to buy feathers on ebay, be very careful…
art
So this English sparrow goes into a bar, perchs and orders a pint. A starling comes in and after much looking about takes the only available seat, which happens to be right next to the sparrow. He orders a shot of house whiskey.
Very pregnant pause and everyone in the bar feels the tension…
The bartender can no longer stand it and looks at the pair…
“Have you two been introduced?”
Here in NY state we can “hunt” starlings year round. They are an introduced species (from Jolly Ole England),and cause lots of damage to many crops. So it is a good idea to know some hunting regulations before you start collecting fur or feathers.
p.s. With in the past year I came accross some soft hackle fly recipes using Starling feathers, be darned but I can’t remember were I saw it. Anyone know the site or Magazine article I saw the recipe in?
(I added the boldface)