:?: Does anyone know why most of the rods sold today have uplocking real seats? To me they are a pain in the A** as they leave about 1" to 1 1/4" of real seat sticking out in mid air to catch line. Maybe a defect in my casting technique, but I really think this is just a fad from the rod builders to get cute and bury the front foot of the fly real under the handle. Anyone have a different opinion? Thanks, and Happy New Year to all.
Yes, I do have a different opinion.
My preference is FOR the uplocking reel seat. On the down locking reel seats I tend to rub the knurled rings and the reel becomes loose. I don’t do this on the uplocking reel seats… perhaps the downward weight of the reel itself on the locking rings provides some pressure to keep them from coming loose as often. I won’t even buy a rod with a down locking reel seat.
Oh…I have never had a problem with the rod seat stickng out below the reel either. In fact they build them intentionally with a fighting butt on the end on a lot of rods.
Guess there are opinions boaf ways.
That’s what makes it interesting.
My first fly rod had a down locking reel seat. After all it was an old Eagle Claw fiber glass thing in a beautiful shade of Pi** yellow and I was ten years old. I took the old rod for a walk down my old home stream last spring and I can now remember one of the real pains about that rod. I kept unscrewing the ring and the reel would fall off.
As far as I know that is the main reason to have uplocking reel seats. However, it was way cool to fish my old home stream with my first fly rod again. At times I could almost see my old dog Laddy following me down the trail.
I don’t understand how you’re rubbing the rings? Isn’t your hand up on the cork?
Pete. That old rod never fit my hand comfortably. For some reason my hand would always migrate down the grip and end up unscrewing the ring. I no longer have this migrating grip, but for some reason it was back again with that old rod???
I’ve also heard uplocking reel seats are supposed to keep the center of mass closer to your hand. I always used to keep getting slack flyline wrapped around the reel constantly with downlocking reelseats, but that probably was just me. :oops:
That was the reason they gave for introducing them many moons ago. Whether it’s true or not I couldn’t tell you but thank goodness there is/was a choice with the manufacturers and builders I prefer because I HATE up locking reel seats. It has been a deal breaker on many a rod I was interested in.
I’ve paid extra $$$ to have one Winston “converted” and I bough three spare down-locking reel seats from Winston just in case I need a repair that necessitates the destruction of a down-locking seat since Winston no longer offers them.
BTW I have NEVER had an unscrewing issue and I like to keep my hand further down, right on the seat at times which is one reason I favor them.
Like or dislike, it’s a personal choice.
But be sure you understand the ‘physics’ of what you are choosing.
An ‘uplocking’ seat is used by most manufacturers because it’s easier to install/build the rod. You can leave off the tightening apparatus, including the movable parts like hood/rings that make annoying noises while turning the finish on the wraps. You can use a less cosmetically pleasing, and thus cheaper to manufacture, front hood if you are burying it under the grip. Repairs to an uplocking seat that strips a tightening ring or bends/tears a rear hood are relatively simple.
The reel location on an uplocking seat is closer to the tip of the rod by an inch or three. This effects the fulcrum point, where it’s most conmfortable to hold the rod versus where the reel exerts the most balancing force on the rod (you cn’t effectively ‘balance’ a fly rod, but the more ‘swing weight’ the reel exerts, the more effortless the cast will ‘feel’ and the easier the rod will be to ‘stop’ in either direction).
On a downlocking seat, the reel location is farther back from the tip of the rod buy an inch or three. This moves the swing weight of the reel back, increasing it’s effect on the cast.
Whether this is important at all, or even noticable to the caster, is unclear.
An uplocking seat lets you set the butt cap on the ground and keep the reel off of it. But it also has that annoying habit of catching loose loops of line.
A down locking seat has a ‘gap’ between the grip and the front of the reel, in which are all that tightening hardware. Some find this arrangement less aesthetically pleasing than the uplocking version.
It’s a choice. That’s all, no right or wrong.
Good Luck!
Buddy
The main reason for uplocking seats, supposedly, was due to the tendency for the locking ring to loosen on downlocking seats. Once they became popular, the fact that the reel seat hood could be buried in the grip made the appearance attractive to those that didn’t learn to fly fish until after “the movie”. To those fisherman, the look of a down-locking seat is probably strange, in the same way that an uplocking seat looks odd to me.
Personally, I hate uplocking seats and only have them on saltwater rods that have a fighting butt. Among other things, the reel/rod combinations I use tend to balance better with a downlocking seat. Frankly, a downlocking seat just looks “right” to me and I am willing to live with the very minor inconvenience of having to re-tighten the locking ring once in a while.
As a hobbyist rod maker, I’ll say that there are some good features to uplocking reel seats, but most of them aren’t designed/built as well as they could be. On smaller, lighter, especially shorter rods, the inch and a half or so sticking out at the butt reduces the rod’s useable length (the part you are casting) by too great a percentage. The same amount sticking out of a stiff nine or ten footer is far less noticeable, and may actually serve as a useful addition when fighting big fish. With greater standardization in reel feet dimensions, there is no reason smaller seats couldn’t be significantly shorter and still give plenty of clearance for mounting reels. The other major flaw is the buried hood. Except on really heavy rods, there is no reason there has to even be a hood, since a simple ring, no thicker than the typical trim ring, is more than strong enough to hold a reel. The reel is held in place by the lower ring, anyway. Getting rid of the buried hood means you don’t need a cork ring that’s hollowed out (thin), and gives the builder the option to reduce the cork diameter at this point, producing an ergonomically superior grip. My own reel seats consist of a cork barrel (of the best cork I can find) just over 3 inches long, with a tapered upsliding ring (to sit flat on both the cork and the reel foot and not dig in), and a trim ring just a little larger in diameter than the cork seat. The cork is flattened along its length where the foot sits, with the flattened area extending under the trim ring. I relieve the bottom grip ring very slightly with a Dremel tool to allow the reel foot to slide up under the trim ring (this is hidden by the trim ring). The weight of the reel and the tapered sliding ring hold the reel in place solidly without putting too much pressure on the cork, and I can make virtually any grip shape I want, except for one where the cork tapers completely into the seat.
-CC
Dear Board,
Most of my modern rods have uplocking seats. I find them to be a problem on some rods and not on others. I have a 7’6" 4 weight with an up-locker and the line is always getting tangled around the end of the rod, mostly because I’m careless when handling the line but also because the lock ring threads a long way up before the reel is snug. I use the same reel on a 9’ 4 weight by another manufacturer and the reel sits much closer to the end of the rod when locked in.
I wonder if people made up locking reel seats like the “patented” Granger bamboo up locker or the bakelite up locker that South Bend used on their bamboo rods if people would like them? You cranked the end of the reel seat up and the reel seat actually got shorter as it cranked back into itself. The reel fit snugly with almost no overhang at the rear of the rod, just like a modern down locking seat.
Best Wishes,
Avalon 
Certainly people would be happier with better designed seats with reduced overhang, just like they’d get better service from cork-barrelled seats, but those designs have a major marketing flaw–no fancy wood, or less exposed wood than current designs. A modern rendition of the Granger seat in aluminum or titanium would be a superb choice for today’s rods. Personally, I think wood on fishing rods or reels is foolish affectation, since even impregnated wood will eventually swell and cause problems, and most woods are heavier than alternative materials that would perform better. Average fishermen, and not a few who aren’t so average, think of cork, metal, and “plastic” as cheap. If you price even a highly figured piece of wood for turning into a reel seat barrel, you’ll see that you can buy several for the cost of the six to eight rings it would take to make one seat of the best cork, which will function better for longer and be much lighter. There are a number of high quality plastics that would make attractive, superior seats, and modern aluminum alloy can make a terrific seat with more design options than wood/aluminum or wood/nickel silver (which, btw, is not silver, just “white brass,” needlessly heavy and currently a bit expensive, probably because it isn’t used in many other products anymore). Titanium, slightly heavier than aluminum, makes into great seats and is more resistant to corrosion than any other choice. Looking back on the “golden age” rods, most of the high dollar ones with names like Payne, Young, and Winston on them have reel seats of aluminum, cork, Bakelite (a type of plastic), and the woods, when used, were often cedar, butternut, or straight-grained walnut, which are still relatively light, durable choices–if you just have to have wood.
-CC
Some good points CC. I never thought about the cork vs wood cost, but you’re right. The cork is more expensive, but most people perceive it to be the other way around.
I think part of the popularity rises from folks working in fly shops who have never seen or used down-lockers.
One major manufacturer only offers that type and the next thing you know almost every manufacturer follows suit. There is less inventory for sure when all you offer is plain vanilla!
I prefer DL’s on light and short rods, UL’s for the rest.
nothing