I say “differently”, perhaps all have been tying off this way - I hadn’t.
I now tie the hackling feather off on the base of the post, and do my whip finish on the base of the post instead of tying the hackling feather off at the eye of the hook.
I think it looks much neater this way as the eye of the hook is clean.
What do you think?
I like the look of yours, but when I do it, I must make too many wraps around the post, as my hackle gets forced up away from the thorax. How many wraps do you make?
I make about 5 wraps.
Hi Byron. I’ve been doing that for a lot of years, and to me, it’s much easier and neater. Nice tie.
Bruce
Thats the way I have been doing it for at least 10 years. Do you turn the hook in the vice for this, or turn your wrist to make the whip finish horizontally?
Cheers,
A.
One other thing. The easy way to put head cement on that whip finish.
Once you have formed the whip finish, but before tightening it, pick up a tiny drop of head cement on your bodkin. Put your bodkin into the loop of the whip finish and draw tight around the bodkin. Now pull the bodkin out, leaving the head cement right on the whip finish.
Cheers,
A.
[FONT=verdana]Byron,
I have been tying off on the post for many years. It makes for neater fly because it prevent trapping loose hackle at the eye of the hook. It also makes threading the fly easier.
I have several other comments on why I do this. One is the misconception that a parachute is a “dry” fly. Most fly fisher will say the parachute is the imitation of the subimago or dun and is a “dry” fly. I have posted before that it is not.
The hackle is above the body and the body rests in the film. Whether we call it a dry fly matters not. What matters is what the fish think it is, and I believe they think it is an emerger. As I posted before, Gary Borger places it in the same Transition Stage 3 as the Kinkhammer Special.
Consequently, whether the thread at the bottom lifts the hackle a bit makes no difference. The body of the fly is still in the film. If you tie the hackle off behind the hook eye, the body is still in the film!
What matters more is whether you tie the hackle with the convex side up or down. Examine a dry fly hackle feather. You will see that it has a natural curve to the fibers and it has a shiny side and a dull side. The shiny side is convex and the dull side is concave.
When you decide to tie a parachute, you must decide whether you will tie the hackle so that the the tips of the fibers curve down toward the water and extend below the body of the fly (the fly will ride higher and the fly is supported on the tips of the fibers), or whether you will tie the hackle so that the tips of the fibers curve up away from the water (the fly will ride low with the body in the water and the fly supported by the shafts of the fibers, tips curving up and away from the water).
If you want the fly to ride low in the water, tie the hackle so that you rotate the hackle around the post, shine side down and dull side up, tips of the fibers curving away from the water.
If you want the body to ride higher, tie the the hackle so that you will rotate it around the post, shiny side up and dull side down, tips of the fibers curving down below the body of the fly.
You must also decide how to tie off the hackle and this will also determine whether the fly rides lower or higher.
To make the fly ride lower, tie the hackle off at the bottom of the post, below the last wind of hackle. Because the post tie off raises the hackle, the body will sink further into the film.
To make the fly ride higher, wind the hackle as low on the post as you can and tie off behind the eye of the hook in traditional position. This lowers the hackle on the post and makes the body of the fly ride higher in the film.
By combining these two techniques you can rotate the hackle shiny side down and tie off on the post to get a fly that has its body lower in the film; or rotate the hackle shiny side up and tie off behind the eye to get a fly that rides higher in the film.
To optimize the higher riding fly, you need to use a hackle that is 2 sizes larger than the fly you are tying, eg, a size 14 length hackle to tie a size 16 fly. This will extend the tips of the hackle further below the body of the fly. Parachutes should be tied with longer hackle anyway but it is mandatory for the higher riding parachute tie.
As I said before, contrary to popular opinion, I believe a parachute mimics an emerger, rather than a dun. Charlie’s Fly Box (http://www.charliesflyboxinc.com/flybox/details.cfm?parentID=131) shows the method for a low riding parachute. Note how the body of the fly is well below the the hackle and would ride in or below the film when supported by the hackle. This is where the nymphal body of an emerger positions itself. On the final side view, I would use a much shorter post, since the the post mimics the body emerging from the nymphal husk. When this pattern gets wet or the tail fibers do not support the back of the fly, it acts even more like an emerger, with the body sinking well below the surface film. One can substitute zelon for the tail fibers to imitate the nymphal shuck just as the sparkle dun did for the comparadun.
Here’s a tip for applying head cement when you tie off on the post. Most tyers would carefully try to place the tip of the dubbing needle right on the thread and let the head cement drip down the needle. You don’t need to do that. Unless your head cement is extremely thick, you can touch the needle to the hackle fibers closest to the whip fishing and capillary action will pull the head cement down the hackle fibers to the post and into the thread wraps. If this doesn’t happen, dilute the head cement.
I also have one other tip for tying down the hackle if you want to tie it in behind the hook eye.
Most fly tiers will make the final wrap of hackle around the post and then take the hackle to the front. Then they wrap the thread over the hackle to tie it in.
Try this instead. Take the tread to in front of the post and just in front of the dubbed thorax. It should be a couple of turns behind the eye to leave space for the whip finish. Let the bobbin hang down on the other side of the hook.
Now wrap the hackle down the post with your right hand, and for the final wrap, take the hackle under the bobbin and back over the hook. Now the hackle is under the thread and the weight of the bobbin will keep the hackle from unwinding!
Taking the hackle under the thread and bobbin keeps you from trapping the previously wrapped hackle fibers in the tie down.
Transfer the hackle from your right to your left hand and pull gently to snug it up under the thread. Now with your right hand put tension on the bobbin, and cinch down the hackle by wrapping it a couple of times. Cut off the hackle, pull back on the hackle and post to clear the tie down area and do a whip finish.
I was taught this method by Wisconsin fly tier, and fly shop owner, and guide Bill Sherer.
I have met Bill many times. Great guy. He came to all our annual conventions with his portable shop.
I doubt anyone would disagree that a parachute is not a dry fly imitating a sub-imago. If the parachute hackle is suspending the fly; and the fly body is beneath the parachute; the body is obviously at least partially submerged and taken probably as an emergent insect.
Unlike the caddis, however, the sub-imago duns ARE a big source of food for trout during a hatch. The fact that they have to float along while waiting for their wings to dry off in order to fly away makes them a good target for the fish and a good pattern for the fisher.
Uh, me, I think. The above sentence is a triple-negative, after all.
Ian Moutter, who defintely has the street cred in England that Borger has here, argues that the parachute is more a true sub-imago than is the catskill. Moutter points out that a Catskill’s hackle collar will push the bundled tail into the water where it represents the shuck of an emerging dun.
Because I believe the parachute represents a true adult, I am not a fan of tying off on the post. I tie the collar concave side down, and I don’t want the hackle pushed up. Further, I have found (YMMV) that a tie-off on the the post is more likely to come apart than a tie off, behind the hook-eye.
One of my favorite patterns is a wonder-wing parachute. No way the split wonder wings imitate the body of a hatching bug.
Steven,
Thanks. IRPON
Byron
I have both of Ian Moutter’s books. In Tying Flies The Paraloop Way, he has a photo on pg 59 of a paraloop and a traditional hackled dry fly illustrating what you say. The tail of the traditionally hackled fly is under water. The paraloop, like the parachute, has it’s hackle above the fly body; and like the parachute, most of the body of the paraloop is under the film. To quote Moutter, “the paraloop sits in the water”.
The question then is whether this position of the paraloop/parachute fly looks more like an emerger or a fully formed adult?
I have both of Ian Moutter’s books. In Tying Flies The Paraloop Way, he has a photo on pg 59 of a paraloop and a traditional hackled dry fly illustrating what you say. The tail of the traditionally hackled fly is under water. The paraloop, like the parachute, has it’s hackle above the fly body; and like the parachute, most of the body of the paraloop is under the film. To quote Moutter, “the paraloop sits in the water”.
The question then is whether this position of the paraloop/parachute fly looks more like an emerger or a fully formed adult?
Wow,
As long as the trout eats it, why does it matter what it ‘thinks’ it is? (I can’t get my head around the trout ‘thinking’ at all.)
I can’t even figure out why it matters what it looks like to us.
If it don’t work, try a different fly? If it does…
Basics of dry fly selection:
Can I see it on the water is the first priority. Do the trout eat it is the second. There isn’t an important third…
Guess it just gives folks something to postulate on.
Buddy
Buddy,
I guess this is why it matters, at least to me:
If you don’t know what the trout are taking and the stage of insect they are taking, you don’t know what artificial to present. And, you don’t know what type of presentation to use. Sometimes you only get one chance to have that trout take your presentation. So, it gives you an advantage if you know just what to present and just how to present it.
A lot of trout will disappear if you are floating a number of “guesses” at him…
Just my opinion though.
Here’s my version of a similar fly in the paraloop style:
Here’s the question, I would ask in return: While emerging, does the husk hang down in the water (a la a klinkhamer) or does it lie flat in the meniscus? If it lies flat, then the argument for a parachute acting as an emerger holds.
Steven,
The widely famous and popular Sparkle Dun assumes is indeed a “TRAILING” shuck. Mathews and Jurack patterned it after the floating insects they saw still trying to escape their shucks.
What do you think?
Last summer I caught such an insect and photographed it. It’s shuck was “trailing”
Byron
Honestly Steven, I think it can do both. I do know that I see a lot of discarded shucks in the film during hatches. You’ve probably seen them also. Some of the shucks probably sink as well. So I don’t think is one or the other.
Here’s a video of mayfly emergence. From the underwater camera view of the emergence in the window it is hard to tell whether the nymphal shuck is in the film or just under the film. It doesn’t look like a Klinhammer to me though. The shuck looks more horizontal than vertical.
Got this photo off the web:
Here’s my Spring PMD #16 Paraloop:
Not quite the same insect, I think
Buddy,
If a fish eats it that is all good; but the best fly fishers, in my view, have a methodology on how to choose the fly to use. When you say, “If it don’t work, try a different fly”, are we to assume that you do that randomly or is there some way of deciding what fly to choose? If there is a method, how do you chose? Or do you play the fly box lottery hoping to get lucky?
Fly fishing is not random. Fly choice is just like reading the water. I doubt you would recommend that the fly fisher cast randomly hoping that there is a fish in that inch deep water. That is like the the hunter shooting randomly in the woods hoping to hit a deer. I suspect you would recommend that a fly fisher not randomly choose what fly to use but that is what you seem to be implying we should do.
Can you not see that is exactly what your post is suggesting? As long as we can see the fly that should be the only criteria. I missed angler visibility of the fly fly listed under the size, shape, color and behavior criteria of matching the hatch. There are alternative ways of locating the fly.
The reason we are interested in why a fish takes a fly is that it also gives us information why a fish will not take a fly. What a fish thinks a fly represents is important in deciding what fly to use.