I have given alot of thought about tying commercaly. Many guiding company’s, and small flyshops really like my flies. I just have a couple questions.
Do you tie alot of variety’s? Like, I am planning if i do tie commercaly, that I will probobally tie Stimulators, small midges, and possibly a new flie that I have devised (A couple guides said that it WILL catch fish.)
Taxes . I have read the article in the latest flytier magizine that It is better to sell both retail and wholesale. And when tax day comes, do you just put the extera money in a bag, and send it to uncle sam? :lol:
How do you price your flies? Do the buyers look at your flies, and look at the quality? One freind of mine is a guide and he said that they buy dries and nymph’s for about $.90- $1.20, is that pretty good.
If I have left out any other things That I should really know, if you could, can you tell me what?
Seems to me that you aren’t going to make any $ at this unless you can tie 20 flys in an hour (1 fly every 3 minutes) and can do it 8 hours a day. That works out to $160 a day. Now deduct, materials, tools, electric, heat, air conditioning, rent, taxes, transportation, insurance, postage, I’m sure I’ve missed some things.
You will need a large market to sell to or you will saturate it very quickly.
You are going to be competing with cheap off shore labor, they can sell product for a lot less than you, $1.00 per fly may be hard to get.
You may be competing with the guides that the services hire, they will sell their flys before they sell yours.
Talk with your lawyer, accountant and insurance agent there are tax, zoning and insurance laws that you will need to know about.
I’m sory to be the bearer of bad news but you should be aware of the down side as well as excited by the thought of selling something that you create.
Should you decide to do this, I wish you the best.
:lol: I Am 14 years old, I don’t have to pay for rent, heat air conditioning, tra sportation, and insurance. and abouve all i don’t have a lawyer . Someday, i will have to worry about that, but not yet =P. But thank you both for your help.
I think if I were going to try this especially at your age (and good for you by the way) I would try to talk to Charlie Craven, and or Al and Gretchen Beaty and even A.K. Best, all of who frequent this site from time to time. They have actually done it, or still do it. They should be able to give you the answers that YOU need.
Hope you make enough to buy that Z-axis you’ve been wanting or at least for some spending money during these great years!
PastorEd got me to thinking (very dangerous). Al & Gretchen Beatty had an article not so long ago in Fly Tyer magazine on things to know about going commerical. If you have the magazine look back a couple two three seasons.
Update: According to the website, it is the current issue that has the article under First Wraps: Tying for Dollars Al and Gretchen Beatty.
God Bless you! I admire your drive. Remember though, you still have to play by the rules. Taxes, Zoning, and marketing rules are the same for a 14 year old as they are for us “OLD” folks.
:lol: I Am 14 years old, I don’t have to pay for rent, heat air conditioning, tra sportation, and insurance. and abouve all i don’t have a lawyer . Someday, i will have to worry about that, but not yet =P. But thank you both for your help.
JZ[/quote]
JZ,
If you stay single, you won’t need a lawyer!
Good Luck!
Doug
A lawyer would try to find a way to sue you for being single.
I can’t imagine trying to tie flies for a living or even pocket change. I tie for pure pleasure and relaxation. There have been occassions where I wrapped the hook shank with thread and walked away for awhile. (I hope the mission would have a room for me if I ever decided to try it).
I sure admire the energy, drive and ambition you have JZ.
Thank you for all of all your help, i realize how many fly tiers think about tying flies for a living, and how, I tie flies in school! I am so lucky that I can say "hey, I want to tie flies for a job, and not worry about my house getting repossesed, going bankrupt(I bet i can say something none of you can say right now, I’ve got no money in my bank account, and I still owe people money!) or having my wife leave me . So I am very lucky that I have the freedom that I have. I have been pretty down latly. I almost got in a fist fight with my best freind today, even though, people think I wouldn’t harm a fly… fishing pole :lol: . I hope that if you don’t tie flies commercally, and you try that none of the things I said above will happen.
Hi JZ,
It really is not as scary as some would make it out to be. Selling both retail and wholesale has it’s advantages Tax wise. It looks to me that you want to earn some pocket money…go for it. I recommend that you find someone to go over the tax laws with, like your dad or your Mom so that you find out what the boundaries are tax wise. I am assuming that where you live getting a home operated business permit should not be a problem, though you may want to go to your prospective clients to deliver the flies than to have them come to your home, this is for insurance liability purposes.
As for the actual tying present your latest and best ties when looking for customers and try to maintain or exceed the quality of each fly that you tie for sale. Nothing will turn off a customer faster than a bunch of inconsistent fly…by this I mean some low quality “mistakes” mixed in with “Nice” flies.
Be careful of what your clients are asking you to tie. For instance if a wholesale customer wants you to tie nothing but Stimulators and no easy flies then he is taking advantage of you, It is customary to get an even mix of 5-10 minute each flies and 3-5 minute flies. This way you will be averaging 5-7 minutes a fly which is where you want to be…unless of course you can lower the time.
It’s one thing to be paid by a retail customer $2.00 a fly that takes you 10 minutes to tie, than to be getting paid $1.00 to $1.20 per fly from a wholesale account.
Like anything, you are going to have to take your lumps in the beginning but remember this rule. Each fly that you tie has your name on it, people who buy the flies from you will know that you tied it, so only sell the flies that are tied to the best of your ability. Quality over quantity. You will tie faster and better as you go along. Quality first.
It will also help you if you can find clients who are willing to help you succeed. You seem to have struck a friendship with a guide, ask him to evaluate your flies and give an honest criticism of what you need to be doing to improve. When tying a big or important order I highly recommend that you get approval on each fly type before you go tying up dozens of flies. Ask the customer if the sample fly you present to him is what he is looking for, if not find out what needs to be done.
I first started tying commercially when I was your age and when I was 15 I started tying for an Orvis Shop.
Fly Tying as a profession is a grueling job. There are not many who solely tie flies for a living. Tying 6-10 dozen high quality flies a day 5 to six days a week is VERY DEMANDING, there are not many who can continually do that day after day week after week year after year. Most of the big name tiers have or had regular jobs. I do believe A.K. Best was a school teacher. Al and Gretchen Beatty worked for the Telephone company and got their retirement pensions before they started tying for a living.
The great Walt Dette soon realized that he needed a full time job if he wanted to live a fuller relaxed life. He and his wife still tied but both held down regular jobs. The tying money was used to live life more comfortably, plus they loved to tie. Walt and Winnie Dette are a great example on this. When they retired from their jobs they wound up owning all the houses on the side of the street that Walt grew up on. Because they had the extra income.
There are current tiers out there that tie full time such as Charlie Craven. He is a phenomenal tier and fast. He is dedicated and disciplined. I use Charley as an example because YOU CAN make it tying flies full time, but this is a very rare breed.
Good luck with your venture. Remember Quality first quantity will follow in time.
Jim
Holy smokes guys give the kid a break. Some great advice if he was looking to run Ford.
What got me to thinking JZ? What would Hennery do? He was a pretty sharp guy. I would think he would K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid) and so should you.
Get a customer.
Get an order for what he wants. Let him tell you what he needs. (Demand already exists.)
Now set a price for an order. Not per fly price. If someone offered you $25.00 to tie 60 flies and the supplied they materials would you? Then you made a good deal. What is the job worth to you?
Always ask for the materials.
KEEP YOUR WORD.
A couple of orders a week won?t be too bad for a 14 year old.
After you start making some serious money I?ll show you how to juice the books for the IRS.
$25.00 for 60 flies works out to $5.00 per dozen. Tyers were being paid $4.00 to $4.50 a dozen in 1975 with the materials included.
The IRS quip is nothing to joke about.
$25.00 for 60 flies works out to $5.00 per dozen. Tyers were being paid $4.00 to $4.50 a dozen in 1975 with the materials included.
The IRS quip is nothing to joke about.[/quote:961e6]
Thanks for doing the math Jim and the history lesson. The point I am trying to make to JZ is ?what is the job worth to you?? The young man has already pointed out he is not trying to make a house payment Just make a few bucks doing something he likes to do.
My advice to you JZ, get one order and price it out to what you think is fair. Keep your word and complete the order. At this point JZ ask your self these questions. Was it worth it? Am I satisfied with what I got? Do I like to do this? Do I need more money to make this worth my while? If you are satisfied with the price, the time and effort you put into your endeavor great. Do you need more money to make it worth your while? Ask for it. You will learn as you go.
So, now I feel I owe you JZ and Mr. Slattery an apology for my quip on the IRS. I made an attempted to lighten up your fears of paying taxes with a quick joke about showing you how to juice the books. I just wanted you to be put at ease. The IRS is not the bogyman. In fact the last I looked you may earn up to $5,100.00 a year without having to file a federal income tax return. That?s a lot of flies and a good goal to excide or attain. Just keep it simple and you will do well.
JZ,
When I was young, I sold flies and made a little money, but it helped my ego more than my bank account. If someone wanted a dozen flies for their first order, I wouldn’t be surprised, but it is when the same person gave me a second order, then I would be amazed because that would mean that I must be doing a good job.
Doug
You might be able to earn $5100 without paying income tax but, you are not releived of paying the 10% Federal Excise Tax that you would owe as a manufactrure of fishing tackle. Two different taxes. Tie 1 dozen flies or 100 dozen flies, it is all the same to the IRS.
:lol: I Am 14 years old, I don’t have to pay for rent, heat air conditioning, tra sportation, and insurance. and abouve all i don’t have a lawyer . Someday, i will have to worry about that, but not yet =P. But thank you both for your help.
JZ[/quote]
Since you’re just 14 years old, you don’t have to worry about paying Federal Income Tax unless you make over $4000.00 (net) in a year. Above that, you start paying 15% a year. That means you can make around $330.00 per month and not have to worry. I don’t know what your State Income Tax rules are, but here in Ga., you’d still be exempt up to $4000.00.
I doubt if zoning would be an issue either, since you can just say it’s a hobby. Now, if you were to get a building and employ 10-20 tyers, then that’s a different story.
When I was in Jr. High and High School, I made extra money by tying flies for teachers, employees and people I knew. I never had any trouble, and in fact, bought my first car with money I saved by tying flies (among other things). I doubt if you will progress tom the point where taxes will be an issue, but if you do…GOOD GOIN!!!
As far as making a career out of it…you will never compete with the Chinese and thier child slave-labor market. They turn out millions of flies for places like Wal-Mart and sell them for pennies. A selection of 12 flies from Wal-Mart is around $4.99. I can’t even buy the materials for that much. Yeah, they are cheap and shoddy-made, but most novices don’t care. They just want to get fishing. By the time they progress to an appreciation of well-made flies, they are probably tying thier own! This is just my opinion.
Go ahead and tie your flies, enjoy life, and the best of luck to you.
. I have read the article in the latest flytier magizine that It is better to sell both retail and wholesale. And when tax day comes, do you just put the extera money in a bag, and send it to uncle sam? :lol:
. Someday, i will have to worry about that, but not yet =P. But thank you both for your help.