Hi all. I?m throwing this question to all you experts out there. Being relatively new at this, I?m having a problem transitioning what I know about casting to heavier flies.
I can cast wet or dry flies with my 5 weight with nice tight loops and good control over a pretty good distance. I have a St. Croix mid-flex 8 weight on loan from a friend that I?ve been using for salt water fishing. Standing in the field by my house practicing, I can get a nice double-haul and shoot all but the last 8’ of fly line without putting any extra effort into it. No sweat!
Then I head out to the flats near my home and tie on a fly. I tie it onto the 8 weight floating line . I try to cast. With the additional weight on the line, my casts fall apart. My loops are big, my distance is terrible. It?s worst with a heavy Clausser, it improves with a less heavy popper, and when I go down to a light deceiver I can cast reasonably well again.
Here?s my set-up
[ul]9? 8-weight St. Croix mid-flex (not sure what model)
8-weight weight forward floating line (not ideal for fishing the salt around here, but it?s what I have)
7? 12 pound mono knotless leader[/ul]
On the initial back cast, I can feel the rod load up as the line extends behind me. The rod tip starts to return forward naturally, but then the fly hits the end of the line and cancels out the forward momentum that?s started to be transferred from the rod tip. The rod feels a double ?bump? as first the line, then the lure hit the end of the back cast. If I start the forward cast when the line loads, the lure slows it down. If I wait for the fly to go all the way to the back, the line drops before I begin the forward cast.
Should I be doing something to compensate for the heavily fly that I?m not? Is my borrowed rod just being overpowered by the heavier fly? I?m going to buy a rod so I can return this one, and have been leaning toward a 9 weight anyway (for striper and blue fish). However, I always wonder what I?m doing wrong before I blame the gear. How can I fix this?
I used to have that trouble as well. I wait until I feel that pull from the line unrolling completely, longer than with smaller flies, then try a double haul to speed up the line. That seems to work for me.
:? Every cast you make has a margin for err. the heavier the fly comepared to the line the smaller the margin. This is not an equipment problem (most likly) it is a timeing problem. A heavy fly, when making the corner from back cast to forward must start forward at percisley the time it reaches strait. if you wait untill the fly tells you it hit the end (strait) you will be late every time. You will never be able to throw dart shaped loops with a big heavy fly nor do you need to. if your line speed is good and timing is right you will be able to cast a heavy bulky fly 70 or 80 feet on your (or any average #8 rod) The key here is to tie up some hookless bugs of that weight and size and test drive them at home untill you get the feel for them.
You definitely want to open your casts up. Like Ducksterman man said slow down and use bigger loops. If you try to put the same punch into it, like you would a smaller pattern, you’ll either hit yourself with the fly or you’ll end up with a shorter, sloppier cast. Like flygoddess, I tend to use more of a side cast too, but generally if i’m not casting too far.
You might try not shocking the line with a crisp stop when the line straightens on the back cast. That’s perfect for dries but with big, air resistant flies it might cause a shock wave in the line which could cause slack which ain’t very efficient.
Besides opening yourloops, try to cast in slight ovals… lower on the back casyt than the forward cast.
Note there are a lot of ‘mights’ and coulds’… JC is watching and if anyone can keep us honest with casting it’s him!
I had the same problem with my 8wt mid flex, and the problem went away when I bought a faster rod. I now own a Cabelas LST and love the fast action. I can throw a VW Micro Bus with that broom stick and get about 60’ with WFF line. :lol: :lol: Seriously, it really made a difference for me, so you may want to borrrow a fast rod and try it for yourself before buying a new one. All the other tips are great, but every now and then it comes down to equipment, especially with monster bugs that feel like an anchor.
And therein is the problem…in a day of fishing you may want to throw different size flies but not be able to change equipment…what is a body to do???.. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
I just came back from your neck of the woods and used my LST on the McKenzie and the Rogue. I went from #4 big weighted bunny leeches down to #14 Stimulators with no problem. Just swapped leaders and went back to work with no problems. I’m an average caster, but I guess I can just adapt well to that change. The LST is really an excellent, comfortable and light rod. I have the 7wt 4-piece.
Joe…I’m not familiar with the LST but for me a 7wt on the McKenzie is not my cup of tea…on the Rogue …it depends…and apparently you are a much better caster then I am…
It brings up an interesting question…at least for me…Is it easier to go from a powerful rod that will handle big flies…and then down to small…or from a lighter rod and try to handle large flies???
…deciding what to use probably should be decided by the target fish but let’s just talk casting flies for now…
And then of course we can get into what is more pleasurable :roll: :roll: :roll:
The outcome of moving in either direction, up/down, down/up, is going to vary from person to person for the obvious reasons. I find it easier to move down with the heavy, fast rod and still get decent presentation with fine flies, as opposed to going the other way which just frustrates me. I know some guys who can make the lighter rod work with bigger bugs, but they are more talented (or patient) than me.
Thanks very much for your feedback. I guess the next step is getting back out into the field for some practice. This time I’ll put some split shot and a tiny piece of rag on the end to simulate that Clausser minnow. Wish me luck!
I was having the same problem just yesterday. I
m using and Orvis mid flex 4 wt. I was beating the Snake River to a froth with drys with no results so I switched to a heavier nymph pattern. Lemmy tell ya, I’m glad no one was around to view this spectacle. Couldn’t get the nymph to follow the line for all the tea in China. It would plunk anywhere it had a mind to. I’m a “fairly” capable caster unless you should ask Rich Ward so this “plunking” was a pain. I have to agree that it is probably that the rod is too stiff and causing a resonance at the end of the back cast instead of a gradual loading. I caught some beautiful fish so I’m glad at least the presentation wasn’t a deterrent to them.
Mark
Is this why many consider it a lure and won’t fish it and will also not take the chance of it hitting their FLY rod and causing it to break? “This time I’ll put some split shot and a tiny piece of rag on the end to simulate that Clausser minnow.”
JC, the split shot will hopefully simulate the weight of the fly, and the cloth the wind resistance, but another key benefit of the cloth is that it reduces the marks left by the fly hitting me in the forehead while I practice!
