Total Posts On the Warm Water Forum

Warm water Fly fishing was a great Mag…I had a subscription for about it’s entire run also saved all of the mag’s I’ve ever bought…Just cannot seem to part with them…Think I’m a packrat were fishing info is concerned…

Did he say why it’ll never be brought into publishing again?..It and Fly Tyer were the only subscriptions I kept up to date for any length of time…Fly fishing Journal then replaced WWFF Magazine, For me. And has a good bit of warm water fishing related info in each issue…My getting Fly Tyer is very spotty these days…but if I see an issue I grab it…

I too check every board a few times a day…But I’ll admit I tend to check this one the most…BIG thanks for having it on this site goes out to JC and LF from me!!

Bill,
OOps!..John was Editor, not publisher. He had been thinking a couple years ago of starting an email type newsletter, but nothing came about. He does have a website, [url=http://www.bassbugcentral.com:42200]www.bassbugcentral.com[/url:42200]
Mike


You can call me Mike & you can call me Mikey…Just remember that this site’s about sharing!

Great site been in there before…seen he’s got a new book out Bass Bug Basics…I skip on that…but hope for a future addition that casts toward more experienced Bug Tyer…

Maybe someone else will bring a warm water mag to light in the future…Just hope it’s on par with what once was!.

The demise of the WarmWater flyfishing magazine was the lack of dollars from the advertisers. Warmwater fly fishing folk just do not buy equipment , ect like the trout and saltwater fokks do, according to them.
They quit their ads in the magazine and that caused it to close. Subscription price is a very small part of paying for an issue of a magazine.
Back to my question of where to buy a panfish rod. I see some at times that are listed for trout/panfish, but never a rod for panfish.
Back under my rock.

Rick

I, for one, disagree that Warmwater Flyfishing was poorly written. Rick, what you wrote about advertising makes more sense to me because I found the content to be outstanding. Everything I tried that I read in Warmwater Flyfishing worked…that magazine was pure solid info.

The “sucessful” saltwater mags that did survive are just travel magazines…who cares what flies work in Belize? I want to know what works in my backyard. :roll:

But I agree with those that say we need to stop bemoaning its loss…and need to prove that it is time for another one to go into print! :idea:

I’m cornfused!! Really not trying to be a smart a**. :slight_smile: Rick - if a mfgr lists a rod for trout/panfish do you feel they should pay for 2nd ad copy listing the rod for panfish only?? Or, can we figger it out?

Again, not trying to be a smart a** but a part [actually often a large part] of a managing editor’s job is to sell his advertisers that he can deliver value for their advertising $$'s. Lets take JC, for example. I rather doubt that this site’s advertisers pay because JC is a cute, cuddly teddy bear [which of course he is]. He sells them that he can deliver value [and does]. Way the world works. If an editor does not do his/her selling job the advertisers leave. Over the last 6 months or so of the WWFF magizine the advertisers went from quality flyfishing people to K-Mart level advertisers. All the national magazines have a mail-in [or now-a-days internet] survey - “will you buy in the next 6 months - a flyrod; a reel; flyline, etc. How do you choose mfgr to buy - magazine ads; endorsements by clebs; what your buddy buys, etc.” I was a subscriber from issue #1 til the end [and got shafted like everyone else with no refund after 1 issue for last years rate] and never saw a survey. How does one manage without any tools? All this, of course, has no bearing or meaning for anyone at this point in time.

As always, just my opinions. Your milage may or may not be the same.

donald

I didn’t carefully peruse the WWFF before reading all of Randy Fratzke’s articles in the Panfish Archives. He highly recommended the Warmwater Flyfishing magazine, and I found the publisher’s site. Imagine my surprise when I discovered it was no longer in circulation. Oh well,never had the privilege of perusing those pages,but kinda wish I had. Even though I probably would have lost a few shekels for the next year’s subscription too.

Beedleech, it is just part of my rant that in most catalogues you donot see anything listed for warmwater fishing, except bass taper fly lines.
Most catlogues do not even put panfish on their rods.
I think that many manufacturtes stopped their ads in the Warmwater Flyfishing magazine, becasue they did not feel that they were getting their money’s worth out of them.
I think the assumption is made that trout, almon and saltwater flyfishers spend more on equipment than warmwater flyfishers do.

I have no idea if that is really true.

Rick

Rick - Actually that is my whole point. If the advertisers “feel” or “make assumptions” the manager IS NOT doing his/her job very well. I usually see the “assumption” used to justify something [someone] who has failed; WWFF magazine, fly shops that go under, etc. It’s just a form of “it ain’t my fault” -" the deck was stacked against me". Just because a person is a good flyfisher doesn’t make him/her a good business person.

One of the best places to learn about flyfishing - warm or cold water - is the local fly shop and/or local flyfishing club. I realize some don’t have access to these but even among those that do I see a lot of effort spent in trying to find “same thing cheaper on the inter-net”. They find a 10% lower price and pay 20% to have it shipped to them - and b**** about the shipping and handling costs!! Joe often writes about traveling to a shop and picking their brains for information. All it takes is a little effort.

If I could learn about flyfishing in s Indiana in 1958 ANYONE can learn now with the internet.

As usual - etc, etc, etc. :slight_smile:

donald

I wonder if a quarterly, big-fat-slick mag might work better for warm water fly fishing?

One could pack in more photos and articles, more advertisers and folks might be willing to pay more for a big-fat-slick quarterly.

This follows what was said about advertisers being the key and getting their ads seen by enough readers.

Well, I am no publisher or ad guy so have no valid opinion. Thankfully we have FAOL and its warm water pages.

Thanks Jim and Deanna!

:roll:
To stir the pot a little more on this, let’s go to another question that I think is part of the disrespect shown towards warmwater fly fishing.

What flies do you see in catalogues that are for warmwater?

What I remember is small poppers for panfish and some poppers, divers and a few wet flies for bass.

If you are in any warmwater swaps you will get a bunch of flies that you will never see in the catalogue or in the bins of a fly shop. There are flies made specifically for different warmwater fish, but they are not commercially available like the trout flies are.

I know that several trout flies will work, but I will put many other flies up against them, and I think the other flies will do better.

Rick

Rick - I think that a large part of the “non-standard” patterns you see in a swap is because many of the people who take part in them don’t know how to tie more “standard” patterns. Out local fly shop [b4 they folded due to lack of business] carried many local [WW] patterns. However, they stocked those flies that a number of people asked for. Frankly it isn’t their job to determine what “non-standard” patterns work for YOU.

I think that WWFF need to get away from seeing “disrespect” in everything. If you want your fly shop to stock a certain fly reccommend it to them and THEN BUY IT FROM THEM. Don’t go into the shop with a chip on your [our] shoulder that says you [we] don’t need or want their help. Don’t look for a 10% cheaper price on the internet from someone that DOES NOT have a storefront and the expense of retail sales [and may not even have stock on hand] and ask them to meet it. If you’re going to buy from Cabelas [for example] realize that you’re going to have to choose from what is CHEAPEST for them and that they SELL THE MOST. [See Cabelas’ for their “lake fly selection” for wwff flies.] If you want flyfishing magazines to carry more WWFF articles tell them AND THEN BUY THEIR MAGAZINE!! Business is business; don’t expect a free ride. WWFF need to pay their way just like the “trout fishermen” do.

Guess I’ll get off’n my soapbox now.

As usual, just my opinions, etc, etc, ect.

donald

JUst a point of info on the start of this thread.
I have found that the quotes are not really a part of the total. As I delete them the number of topics and the number of posts goes down.

So,for the two years of so I have been putting quotes on there would be about 700 more topics and a few more than in posts.

Rick

I differ on the pattens that are submitted to the swaps…

As stated as being of lackluster or on a lower plane with “Trout Catalog” flies…

These flies in my own experience…Are built, Tied and brought into existence by the ppl who use them for warmwater fishing…Most of my flies that I personally carry (Tye) have never been seen by anyone other than those who fish with me…They were made/designed to mimic what I see on or in the water as I can tie most any “Trout Catalog Pattern” as to that same “quality”…
In most cases…as I’ve had some experiences with Shop tied/ Catalog flies…and appearances can be VERY deceiving…Loosely tied flies that look pretty are almost always what I’ve experienced in those cases…which mean very little when on the water…Just some thoughts…

I thank each and every tier who’ve participated in every swap I’ve been a part of…They are ALWAYS… WELL TIED!!!
Some may not the as glamorous as those we see in catalogs…but they are tied on a different plane…one of actual fisherman and to BE FISHED!!!

Angling and Trout
By Dr. Joel C. Brothers, ND, PhD
Aka: Gigmaster

It?s a good bet that many modern warm-water anglers have been frustrated at one time or another by a well-meaning person’s Angling-Impaired assumptions about fly fishing . Many is the time that a person has seen my fly gear and immediately said, “Oh, you’re a trout fisherman, huh?”. I’m sure they mean no harm. But why is Angling so tightly associated with trout? I have a few ideas on the subject. Please bear in mind that they are strictly my own ideas, rather than proven fact.

The Greek historian Aelean described fly-fishing in it’s infancy with the Macedonians quite well, considering it was a second-hand account, and he himself was not a fisherman. This was around AD 200, the dawn of sophisticated fishing. Short rods (6’) of Hazelwood with horsehair line and delicate hand-tied flies were used to catch local trout in streams, since the live flies were much too delicate to use as live-bait. There were no ring-guides or reels and no casting as of yet. The flies were dangled in the water. But why just trout? Simply put, I believe that anything other than trout in small streams would have easily out-classed the available equipment. Do trout taste good enough to be worth the extra trouble? ABSOLUTELY!. Was the thrill and satifisfaction worth the extra effort? Undoubtably yes! I believe that ancient anglers were no different from us in that respect.

Moving forward to 1210 AD, Wolfram von Eisenbach described a man wading barefoot in a stream, fishing for trout and grayling with a “feathered hook”. This was obviously a Feudal-Era angler (and a tough one, if streams were as cold then as they are now). Again, no reel, no casting, no tapered line. Just Horsehair and Hazelwood. Fly patterns were described, but nothing that would be recognizable by a modern angler. It does appear that angling at this time was the preferred method of fishing in Western Europe by the common people. Trout, by necessity, were still the main quarry to due the delicate nature of the equipment available. It appears from writings that salmon were infrequently caught, but imagine the difficulty of playing a salmon on a 6’ rod, with only 6’ of delicate horsehair line. By this time, trout fishing with flies had become a tradition.

By the late 17th century, improvements in gear began to make their appearance, greatly expanding the versatility of angling gear. Commercially manufactured equipment became available, and rod length had increased to 14’-16’ and two-handed spey type rods of even greater lengths were being used. Line length had increased to double the rod length, and the forward cast was adopted. Ring-Guides for more precise line-control were introduced, along with tapered horsehair lines. Reels were invented, although they were basically just ‘bait-casting’ reels with brass bearings that disintegrated when put under any strain. Trout was still the king, but other species loomed on the horizon.

The 19th century was a hey-day for angling innovations. The dry-fly was invented. Split-bamboo rods arrived. A Kentucky watchmaker, George Snyder, invented the modern single-action and multiplying fly-reels. Braided silk began to be used for fly-lines and various different tapers became available. Salmon fishing and classic Salmon and Steelhead fly patterns came into their own, with thousands of devoted followers. The 1890s were the ‘Golden Era’ of classic Salmon patterns, Now, they had equipment equal to the task. Bamboo rods, modern fly patterns, and the introduction of ‘silkworm gut’ for fine leaders revolutionized the sport! The first books on fly-tying were published, standardizing the art. One of the biggest boons to angling was the development of the railroads. Leisure-travel was now within the means of most people, and the more affluent began to travel abroad in search of ever more exciting quarry. Norway was the destination of choice, with its unexploited huge population of really large and aggressive salmon. It started a trend that continues today. Norway is still a Salmon Anglers Mecca! In the US, bass and other large aggressive species were now available to the average angler. Mass production had brought the price of equipment to within almost any ones means. More rapid travel left more time to fish. By the mid 19th century, the false-cast, dry-fly technique, marine angling and most other modern concepts had come of age. Trout was still the major quarry due to the 700+ year head start it had, but the sport was flourishing and expanding.

In the 20th century, the invention of vulcanized rubber, neoprene, monofilament, the automobile, airplane and many other inventions combined to bring angling into the modern age. Now, every fish species that ever comes near the surface are subject to our attacks, and no area of the planet that contains piscatorial prey is safe from our endeavors. Trout are still the traditional quarry by default, but our non-traditional numbers grow daily. With the invention of the Internet, ideas are shared instantly, to the betterment of all. Warm-water angling has, and is growing due to the fact that modern angling equipment is equal to the task-at-hand. Gar, Carp, Peacock Bass, Pirahna, Stripped Bass, Bonefish, Sharks, Tarpon, Shad, Pike, Bass, and even Marlin are taken regularly on modern Fly-Gear. It is probable that the romance of stream-trout will forever be linked to fly-fishing by the uninitiated, but is that really such a bad thing? After all, we know better???..

About the author: Joel C. Brothers is a Doctor of Naturopathy and Holistic Health with an ongoing practice all over the S.E. United States. He is also a professional musician, Minister, and avid outdoorsman. He currently resides in the Cohutta Wilderness, in N. Ga., high in the Southern Appalachians, where remote, cold, clear trout streams still abound. He can be reached at natural.path@yahoo.com.