To 'toon, to 'yak, to 'noe???

Fishing Warm water Forum
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For the past year, I’ve been suffering from brain lock trying to decide on a personal water craft. I’ve gone all over the options from toons to small bass boats…been following the periodic yak discussions that periodically erupt on this list.

Living in KS. I mostly want to target small lakes but keep my options open for Missouri streams (only class II water). Right now, I’m leaning to a light weight solo canoe. I’ve fished for more that 40 years from a canoe so I find them very comfortable. Cabelas have a Old Town Pack in stock but they aren’t eager to let me try it out before purchase–of course I can always bring it back later if I don’t like it but then I’d have to deal with all of the accessories as well. The solo-canoe folks on the list seem to lean towards more performance based canoes from smaller specialty companies. I’m thinking pretty hard about the light weight Pack. Finally, the question. Any concerns from the dedicated solo folks regarding the Pack canoe?

BW

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Hi Brad,

Different strokes for different folks,
but I personally would not consider any of
the solo canoes I have paddled to transit
class II waters with pricey gear on board.
I’d lean more towards an Old Town Guide
series 15 footer or something similar.
They perform well solo as well as with a
buddy and they have tremendous stability.
Warm regards, Jim

3

Jim,
I had an Old Town Guide, & it was just way too heavy (80+ lbs) for an old guy with a problem shoulder. As you may know, I gave up my tube due to bad knees. I have owned 3 canoes over the years, LOVE them, & will be picking up an “almost new” one in May. I got a Scott Lil Canoe that was specially built & is just what I was looking for. It’s a 12’ long, 45 lb fiberglass with good stability. Fine for my small water fishing whether single or tandem & gives me a golden opportunity to get the grandkids involved, AFTER I outfit it with kid sized PFDs & paddles.
Mike

You can call me Mike & you can call me Mikey…Just remember that this site’s about sharing!

4

Bw, I would check out the Kevlar canoes, alittle pricey compared to glass but light as a feather and durable. You will carry a 13 ft with one hand.

Yaks are 55lbs in glass and its ok but trickey loading on SUV Explorer. I use an extention rod on a Yakama rack and it works out.

Philip

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Brad…if you go to this WWW site:

Southern Paddler [url=http://www.neilbank.com/phpBB2/index.php:cf234]http://www.neilbank.com/phpBB2/index.php[/url:cf234]

You can find tons of info and help from people on your question. I am one of the founding members of this forum. It started out as 6 guys emailing each other about boat building ie; Pirogues,CANOES etc and it is now a huge popular forum. My son(FisherKid93) and I built a 16 foot custom designed(for us) Cajun Style Pirogue four years ago, specifically for Fly Fishing.
Thanks Kahuna

[This message has been edited by Kahuna (edited 14 April 2006).]

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Brad,

I personally like a solo canoe over all other watercraft options. I use my solo for fishing, for light load daytripping on rivers, and for long-distance unsupported wilderness style downriver trips where I’m gone for days and carrying lots of gear and food weight.

While many people favor the traditional tandem (2-seat) canoe, I don’t like tandems much although I own one. For fly fishers especially, it’s risky having two long fly rods waving around simultaneously in a tandem canoe due to the risk of accidentally whacking the rods together during casting (which would likely fracture one or both rods). Also, you would have the risk of hooking your partner with a fly and causing serious injury. I’m a believer in fishing alone, whether it’s in a solo canoe, tandem, kayak, float tube, pontoon or whatever.

If you decide on a canoe, I suggest making sure that its hull is “rockered”; that is, you want one with a modest amount of longitudinal curvature fore and aft. This curvature relieves the water pressure on the bow and stern during pivots, which makes the boat much easier to maneuver at slow speeds. The high performance straight-keeled solo canoes and tandems are nice boats, but they are a bear to turn compared to a canoe with rocker.

Around the Kansas City area the only canoe shop I know of that has “demo days” (where you can test-paddle various canoes) is KC Paddler. This shop used to be located downtown just west of the City Market, but they recently moved to Peculiar, MO. You might call there and ask for Dave; he’ll clue you on the date for the next demo day, or if KCP isn’t doing those anymore he’ll steer you to someplace that does.

Sunflower over in Lawrence used to sponsor a kayak demo day every year at Lone Star Lake. You should call them and ask if they have one coming up anytime soon.

In kayaks and canoes both, there’s such an incredible variety of hull designs that it pays to test paddle as many boats as you can before buying one.

You’re also welcome to try my Wenonah Rendezvous if you’d like, just to see how my kind of boat handles.

And Old Geezer is telling it like it is: you definitely want to get a lightweight boat. The lighter your boat, the more often you’ll use it. You can carve that in stone.

Joe

“Better small than not at all.”

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What Joe says I definetly agree with. One thing about our boat is that it weighs less than 50 pounds. With my son and I in it with all our gear,because the way it(boat) was designed for me(I’m over 250 pounds) we can still go into water under 6(4 inches) inches deep and not drag bottom. That allows us to get into those areas that canoes and other boats can’t get into.
Kahuna

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Hi Ohiotuber,

Yes, the Old Town is heavy, no doubt
about it. I would have been all over the
lightweight solo boats as well if Brad
hadn’t mentioned the class II whitewater
streams. Class II whitewater is relatively
mild, but it does encompass rapids, standing
waves, and rocks. Often plenty of them. If
I were going to be dividing my attention
between navigating the streams and trying
to put my fly in a likly looking spot, I
would anticipate the occasional collision
with said rocks. I would forgo the light
weight glass and kevlar in favor of the
more durable plastics and be looking for a
bit more stable craft than most of the
lightweight solo boats I’ve paddled.
Scratch the whitewater requirement and I’m in complete agreement. The problem comes
from trying to do too much with a single
craft. The design parameters for flatwaters
and even mild whitewaters are different. If
I’m going to err, it will hopefully be on
the side of caution.G Warm regards, Jim

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Jim,

To your comments, I would add that the prudent thing to do when canoeing or kayaking through Class II whitewater is to focus entirely on safe navigation, and forget all about fishing while you’re moving through such water.

If the rapid offers shallow enough depth, simply pull out at the head of the run and wade fish the water downstream. When you’re done fishing, walk back to the canoe and proceed through the run. Or, do the rapid run first and pull the canoe out at the end of the run, then wade fish the rapid back upstream.

I might also add that anytime a person wade fishes fast-moving water over knee deep, or fishes in still water where there’s likely drop-offs (like ponds and lakes) they should be wearing a PFD – and forget how stupid it makes you look. As a former Water Safety Instructor and lifeguard, I like to see people stay up on the surface. I’m the world’s biggest baby when it comes to accidental death by drowning.

Joe

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Good advice from all. Having gotten rid of 3 16 & 17’ canoes (not suitable for solo & aging), you would think I’d have learned. The big issue with me this time was weight as I fish mainly ponds & very small lakes, and often alone. IF I take this canoe on rivers, it would be on our slow moving streams here in Ohio, basically to move from one “spot” to another (of course, open to public or ith permission) & then wade fish.
Jim…I totally agree that far too often, having DONE it, folks like me would purchase 1 craft to do everything. What you usually end up with is a craft that serves NO purpose very well. Would the canoe I will soon have be suitable for whitewater, tripping, or “heavy” water in large lakes? The answer is a resounding NO! Does it meet my needs of today, & also provide some fun family times during family get togethers?..Yes!
Joe…Two things:

  1. If I were to buy a new canoe, I would look VERY closely at Wenonah…they make fine canoes & some real nice specialty boats.
  2. Your statement regarding weight is absolutely, 100% correct!..I DO speak from experience on that one. “G”
    Last, I enjoy discussing canoes. They have always been my favorite watercraft, and just seem to fit the traditionalist mindset many of us flyfishers have.
    Mike

You can call me Mike & you can call me Mikey…Just remember that this site’s about sharing!

11

You might want to check out the Wenonah Vagabond. It has gotten some real nice comments other boards, and users say it is one sweet solo canoe.
Bob

12

Thanks to everyone for the advice–all taken into consideration. Today, in way too much wind I went over to KC Paddlers (as per Joe’s advice) and tried out a Winonah Vagabond, a Hobie Quest, and a Hobie Mirage Sport. I didn’t try the Old Town Pack that Ken from KC Paddler had. I decided it was just too short and would require to much paddling. I was going to try a Bell Merlin II but after trying the Vagabond in the wind, I decided to come back in a couple of weeks and try again. The Merlin II is a beautiful boat and in the low to mid thirty’s for weight. This boat would need some care just unloading in today’s conditions. But I really like the lines of this boat and the placement of the seat. This could be my boat when I get it on the water.

I fully expected to come home with a canoe, today but the conditions on the lake didn’t give the canoes a chance to shine. The wind did allow me to put the vagabond through a workout in conditions I probably would not normally experience. I just wouldn’t be fishing on the lake in these conditions–or at least not unless I could get the protected side of the lake. I was able to handle the canoe in the wind just fine. The going was a bit tough into the wind, requiring some effort to paddle but once lined directly into the wind things were fine. I was able to hold a line going across the wind, but had some difficulty docking across the wind–had to change my approach and come up wind for control. I was a little disconcerted with the secondary stabilty. I didn’t have any close calls but I tried to rock over to the gunwhale to explore my margin of error–it wasn’t much once past the nice amount of primary stability. I really like the light wight of the canoes and their overall lines.

I have to say that the Quest was very surprising. I wasn’t looking for a kayak but was interested in the Mirage drive based on what others have said, here. The Quest (paddle, sit on top) looked like it would be a bit clumsy but it wasn’t. In fact in the wind we had today, this platform really shined. Ken, indicated that he had a similar experience the first time with the Quest and that it was his go-to fishing platform. Aghhhhh…I’m back to not knowing which boat to get.

I really had fun with the too small Mirage sport–didn’t think there was a mirage drive in the center of the country. The other folks trying out touring kayaks were amazed at how I scooted off into the wind–and so was I. I now have to enter the Mirage drive into the equation…

All in all a good day and I’ll go back over the first weekend in May to try the Merlin II and others when KC Paddlers plan on having a large demo day with factory reps and all. The only bad part is that I thought I had my mind made up and now I’m back scratching my head and throwing my hands up in the air…

Thanks again

BW

BTW, Jim H. The Missouri streams mostly only get on the edge of Class II–mild riffles and very little standing wave action. Most of the classification is due to tree blow downs in quick water that require some fancy paddling sometimes. The canoes I’m looking at will not have a problem. Mostly I want to be able to put in, paddle a short distance upstream and then fish downstream back to the truck. When my wife is with me, I’ll just rent a canoe from an outfitter.

[This message has been edited by Brad Williamson (edited 15 April 2006).]

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Brad,

I picked up a Hobie Mirage a couple of years back and love it. It is with out a doubt the best personal fishing craft I have ever used. As you found out, the paddle mechanism is super powerful, easy to use and quiet, and the steering is accomplished with one finger. Also, the seat in the Mirage is comfortable enough to allow you to spend hours our fishing or just paddeling around with no lower back pain. Keep in mind that I fish ponds and lakes almost exclusively. If the wind it up a bit, I will allow the kayak to drift with the wind with a drag chain out to slow it down. I am able to follw the contours of the shoreline with a touch of a finger and my hands are free for fishing. Great one person fishing boat. They also make a two person Mirage, however, I have never used one so I can’t comment on that model. You’re certainly doing the right thing trying out as many as possible before making the investment.

Good luck.

Jim Smith

[This message has been edited by James Smith (edited 16 April 2006).]