To give up, or not?

All about flies Fly Tying
1

So, after adding up everything lastnight and finding out what I need/want. I thought it might be worth it to give up tying…

I don’t want to, since I like tying, even though I’m no good at it:) But, talk about an expense, then again I’m purchasing quite a bit.

So anyways, the point of this post was for one thing, a question. Once you all have a good supply of everything, is it fairly cheap to keep everything topped up? Meaning, do a lot of your supplies run out at the same time, or can you keep up a good supply with spending a couple hundred a year, or $20 a month etc. Of course I know it depends on how many flies you tie, 1 a decade or 20k a year. But, lets say 1000/year. What is rough upkeep cost. Saying you buy the average supplies, nothing outrageously rare. I’m sure a whole lot more variables come into play as well.

But I’m curious, since I’m shocked at the moment:)
Shane

2

It depends on what sort of tying you do. If you take up Atlantic salmon flies, I expect your yearly expenses will be a bit on the upper end of the scale. If your flies get simpler and you realize you don’t need forty-seven different thread colors and nine sizes of twenty-four hook styles, the upkeep goes way down. Still, your break-even point on cost is going to be somewhere between one and ten thousand flies, most likely. Not per year, but total. After all, your initial tool costs, vise and whatnot, will amortize over time. I figure I am down to about a two-tenths of a cent per fly on vise costs after all these years.

I suspect I spend $1-200 a year on tying supplies, mostly hooks. Bear in mind, this does not count the $ I spend on duck hunting to get this pile of CDC I will burn through this summer and fall.

Figure out how many flies you expect to tie, and then add up the component cost of those flies, and see what you will be spending. Then double that, and you will probably be pretty close.

If you are concerned about costs, see where you can substitute, and you do not HAVE to have the best vise on the market, or every tool under the sun. A vise, scissors, couple bobbins, and a whip finisher (and even that is optional) and you can tie forever.

3

Shane;
If you put a lot of thought and research into the initial purchase you may then go maybe a whole 2 days before needing/purchasing more. :wink:
Actually you may not need anything else for a couple of months!

4

Shane,

Hang in there. The initial start up cost do seem pretty heavy. I will share with you my experiences. I fish alot of nymphs, comparaduns, and buggers. I try to buy materials in bulk ( chenille, marabou etc.) Once I get materials for the flies I’m tying then I find the only thig I need to replenish is the hook or bead jars. My biggest expense over the past 3 years has been hooks and beads. I use a Danvise, have an Ott light, Anvil scissors – nothing real fancy but it works for me. Keep an eye on the swap page … several times a year there are material swaps. Lot’s of fun. I have to also say this … I don’t really tie my own flies to save money. I tie because I truly enjoy it and tying is very therapeutic for me. I give away alot of flies, and I sell a few.

If you enjoy tying, stick with it. If it’s more of a chore and not enjoyable at all, you may want to consider buying your flies.

Best wishes,
Greg

5

If your having a good time then dont quit.
If tying aint fun then dont do it.
Any of the folkes here that have met me know that I focus towards the "low end " of the scale. I love a bargain and cant help myself. There are lots of venues available for modestly priced tools and equipment. Check backwards quite a way for a few posts that give altenative ideas for tying materials. You can save a large stack of cash.
For tools the same thing goes (I hit up my dentist for unusable dental picks) and you dont HAVE to have the best of everything . Wait for the sporting goods shows , wait for the Orvis warehouse sale , they come around cyclicly. Check their site for closeouts. Everybody has closeouts. Build your own stuff. If you have the smarts to tye a fly you have the smarts to build stuff.
Good luck,
Perch

6

Yes, once you have your base supplies, it does get cheaper assuming you don’t start tying a completely different type of fly. If you’re tying warmwater and suddenly decide to tie saltwater, then you’ll have an up front expense. But if you stay with what you’re tying, and you have acquired the capes and saddles (biggest expense), then the rest is as you need it. I find I place an order or stop at a fly shop about once a month just to top off the supplies. The exception is when I go to a FF show and learn a whole new group of flies that I just ‘have’ to tie. Then I suffer a hit to the budget.

So don’t give up if you enjoy it.

TxEngr

7

Invest (spend) all you want to. It’s your dough. You worked for it. You earned it. You get to use it. Whatever it takes to make you happy, go for it. The alternatives are frightening. The value of the recreation , is priceless.

8

Shane,

Don’t start off buying everything under the sun. Before long you’ll notice lots of stuff you purchased that just collects dust. Since you are new at tying, focus on a few flies at a time until proporations and techniques are a natural then move on to another few. You’ll notice after tying a couple of dozen there is an appreciable improvement. Be sure to save the first fly and then compare it to the same fly a couple dozen later. As time goes on you’ll add to your inventory and in a few years realize you have more than most fly shops. :lol:

9

Some tiers have to tie every fly of the week, and every week have to buy something there costs are going to be high.

for some the tying is more of a hobby than fishing, they enter a lot of swaps etc. there cost will be higher than mine.

Some settle down to tying a few different patterns and sticking with them. I am trying to find out what works for me and settling into this last group. I think my tying supplies this year would so far be under $50 and this includes $25 in hooks. And by the end of the season I might spend another $50.

You don’t have to have everything, just pick some simple patterns and tie in a couple of colors buy to tie what works locally, and don’t hesitate to use what you have until you can afford what you want. you will probably find your substitutions catch fish also.

Eric

10

Hey Guys,

I was looking at fly costs in the shop, and thier pretty crazy, for the cost of it is to make them. I never wanted to tie to be honest, and the costs of flies aren’t really an issue for me, since I don’t lose many…yet.

I got tying because of two reasons. The first, being that I wanted to catch fish on flies I tied! And the second, because the old gentlemen in the store talked me into buying the kit haha.

I have the Vice, bobbin, the pointy thing, etc. It’s just tying material that seems to be hikey for me right now, simply because I need to get other things, such as waders (Since I’m tired of getting in the car soaked:))

Rainbowchaser has been giving me some great ideas since we’ve been talking about my situation. So it’s helping. I was just curious about the upkeep, cause I couldn’t afford this continuously. I guess really, like has been said the biggest cost is capes etc. I need to find out a good place online in Canada. I priced out H&H, which is a good price for me, but with shipping and duty, it wouldn’t work out great.

HAhaha, the problem is, I have the list I want, and don’t want to take even a few things off it lol.

I really enjoy tying, I’ll probably enojoy it more after I start catching fish on my own flies.

The only tool I need is a decent pair of scissors, which aren’t even in this budget, the reason I need them is I’m using kitchen scissors at the moment lol.

Looks like I’m going to have to redo my to buy list and take a few things off it:)

Thanks for the replies guys, helped me make a decision to keep tying. I think I was going to continue anyways. I never quit doing something I enjoy usually, no reason to stop now haha.

Thanks again!!!
Shane

11

After buying your tools, and the initial start up materials, you don’t need to spend much to “keep going” ; you will of course, but you don’t need to. :slight_smile:

  • Jeff
12

Shane. I agree with JC. If you enjoy tying keep at it. Now to your basic question. “Once you have a good supply of everything ----”

Assuming you tie about 1000 flies a year I would guess that your cost would be minimal in relation to the enjoyment you get. I can get 1000 hooks (Mustad 3366 & 3399) for about 50 bucks and this is my biggest single item outlay. I buy less than the premium saddle hackles and usually use yarn or similiar material for tying that are from non fly tying shop sources. Examples are copper wire from old electrical cords & yarn from thrift stores. The list is rather endless and fun to persue. I tie about 3000 flies a year and not counting hooks I spend maybe 15 bucks a month on supplies and I could reduce that amount if I was not hung up on tying flies with big bushy hackles.

Anywho - keep at as long as you enjoy what you are doing.

Tim

13

Very good points. I’ll post my list, so everyone can see. Now, remember, I really have no idea what I can tie with all this. But it sounded good;)

I’ll be tying Wooly buggers, poppers, basically a bunch of panfish flies. But I’d like to tie some streamers too. Nymphs, not many patterns, but at least a couple. Pheasant tail thingie. I don’t need the nymphs till next summer, but I wanna be able to tie and know what I’m doing before I start tossing them to the fish.

Then again, I could do that next winter…Ok, fine, I guess I just want too much lol :slight_smile: Here’s the list!!!

METZ SADDLES ? Black, Grizzly, Brown
Partridge Hackle ? Brown, Grey
Moose Mane
Medium Chenille ? Brown, Black, Olive, Red ?
Ice Chenille ? Fire Orange, Red, Olive, Black ?
Peacock Herl
Hares Mask
Wire ? Gold ? Silver ?
Copper Wire ? Lead wire
Bucktail
Deer hair
Metallic Braided Mylar Body Tinsel Copper
Pearl Flat Mylar Tinsel ? Flat Tinsel ? 3 spools ? Wax ?
Coastal Black Deer Hair ?
Tungsten Nymph Beads
Hour-Glass Eyes ? Medium
Hooks 94840 Size
9672 size 12-14
3906b Size 14
Scissors
Strung Marabou
Thread (unwaxed, seems to be hard to find it)

So, yeah, after reading this all through just now, I guess I could toss a lot off
the list:)

Take care guys!
Shane

14

Shane
what help me in tying better looking flies is a good light and magnification reading glass and see if thats helps

15

Shane,

I initially attempted to tie years ago but it didn’t work out mostly because I tried to do too much and was quickly overwhelmed. Then about three years ago I started again but at much slower pace.

I bought tools (new & used) & a good reference book (The Benchside Introduction to Fly Tying by Leeson & Shollmeyer). Then I bought only the required materials to tie a couple of patterns that I use often. Once I was successful with those patterns I moved on to other patterns that I use frequently. I still don’t tie patterns that I only use occasionally unless I already have most of the material or the cost for material is very low (e.g. green weenie). For me it isn’t worth the expense plus I don’t want to store items I rarely use.

My collection of material is small and I spend about $150/yr keeping up and expanding my material inventory. However, I don’t tie a thousand flies a year, I just tie what I use plus some to give to fishing partners. Still, my collection of material and fly inventory is slowly growing. My first year cost me around $500 - $600 for material and tools but I could have gone with less expensive items. I elected to buy a higher priced vise and scissors.

Bottom line: I enjoy tying my own flies and catching fish with them. I also spend my money wisely and TRY to avoid keeping my tying area from getting cluttered with unnecessary items. Of course, there will be times when you just have to have that Ronco superduperhackledubbinghairstacking tool that will make tying flies easier than tying your shoes.

16

[SIZE=2]I think all the advice here is valuable and would add (or amplify) this way.
OK, so you are in SW Ontario and are interested in tying. The two main reasons for tying are to catch fish on your own flies, and to be able to tie flies that match your needs because of the waters and fish in your location.
Decide on what flies you need NOW and buy only the materials for them. I have been tying for 20 years and am still hanging in there with the ‘5 originals’, deer hair, peacock, pheasant tail, hare mask, partridge, and rabbit foot. Remember that silhouette and presentation is more important than colour.
I have all the other materials too and many synthetics, but most of them are not needed. Primarily I think novice tiers get sucked into thinking some material or pattern they have read about is the next magic bullet and thus end up with some material that is never used again.
Tying is a hobby and recreation. At the vise you can forget the cares of the day and dream about the stream - that is the true joy of tying. After the first 20 materials you probably will only have to buy about 6 new ones a year if you are disciplined. For the past couple of years, like other tiers who posted here I have only purchased hooks and bead or eyes.
Since you are in SW Ontario it is more important that you become connected with a good fly shop that will provide appropriate advice. How close are you to London and Jay’s Fly Shop? Angling Specialties in Toronto also has an excellent selection and will mail material.
You should actually post some of your concerns on Hipwader.com (the Ontario fly fishing site). Chris from Windsor will probably respond if you are near him.

Here is my opinion on your list, for what it is worth.
METZ Saddles? Black, Grizzly, Brown If you are not tying dry flies just get Chinese necks @ $6 each,or some generic saddles.
Partridge Hackle ? Brown, Grey This is the same thing, just get Natural
Moose Mane, No, use stripped peacock herl.
Medium Chenille ? Brown, Black, Olive, Red ? Red is only good for Woolly Worms
Ice Chenille ? Fire Orange, Red, Olive, Black ? Why? This is kind of a luxury.
Peacock Herl
Hares Mask
Wire ? Gold ? Silver ? not silver for now
Copper Wire ? Get it from an old electromagnet/speaker
Lead wire
Bucktail What colour?
Deer hair
Metallic Braided Mylar Body Tinsel - Copper. Why copper and not pearl? and if Pearl, either braid or the next material but not both.
Pearl Flat Mylar Tinsel ? OK
Flat Tinsel ? 3 spools ? Why 3? What colour do you need? Tinsel is gold on one side and silver on the other or copper on one side and blue on the other some times.
Wax ? Use candle or cheese wax
Coastal Black Deer Hair ? No, use the regular deer hair for now - the tips are usually fine enough - or use phentex
Tungsten Nymph Beads
Hour-Glass Eyes ? Medium Why? Are you tying Clousers? a bead also works.
Hooks 94840 Size 16
9672 size 12-14
3906b Size 14
Scissors - get a good pair, but they are also good at Michael’s and Walmart.
Strung Marabou - only black and possibly olive needed at first
Thread – forget looking for unwaxed, just get Uni #6 if you are starting.
Some of the tinsel/wire and chenille or other ‘wool’ type material can be purchased or substituted at Michael’s. While you are there get some foam sheets. If you are after bass and panfish, the foam will be as useful as any other material.

Cheers and Good Luck,
Greg
winterhatches.org
[/SIZE]

17

If you know anyone who works at a medical clinic, ask them if you can acquire some scissors. They have to dispose of them once used, but they can be autoclaved and turned into fly tying tools. And they work fine for most things.

You can get hemostats that way too.

DG

Looking at your list, you can save some $ by buying hackles from Denny instead of Metz.

The hair and such might be easily acquired if you know a taxidermist.

Chenille you can acquire cheaply. If you buy it by the card it will cost you more in the long run than if you buy it by the skein. Keep it out of the sun it lasts forever. Look at craft stores, not just fly shops for that sort of thing. Peacock, turkey, partridge and so on might be a lot cheaper there.

use brass beads instead of tungsten, they work fine. Not quite as heavy but a heck of a lot cheaper. Shop around, lots of difference in bead prices.

copper wire is as close as the nearest dead electrical device. You do not NEED every color of wire and tinsel and such. Improvise, substitute.

I have lived for a lot of years without ice chenille.

Looking at your list, 75% of your cost is either hackle or hooks.

18

Shane,

It’s way cheaper to buy your flies.

It has always been cheaper to buy flies.

Yes, you can tie flies for less than they ‘cost’, but you have to spend a lot of money and tie a lot of flies (many thousands) BEFORE you will realize any return, and this does NOT include anything for your time. If you figure ANYTHING reasonable for your time you are FAR better off, financially speaking, buying flies (given that you CAN actually buy them).

Most of us tie flies because we like to do it. It can be fun. It’s certainly relaxing. It can be a way to be creative without dealing with harsh critics (fish are pretty forgiving, and on a fly you and the FISH have the only opinions that really matter).

If you tie your own, you can get the flies you actually want, made specifically for a given situation, with all the attributes that YOU want in them. I seldom fish with a fly that you could buy in a fly shop, or that anyone in a fly shop would recognize.

The bottom line is that you need to decide if this is about the money or about the fun/creativity/challenge/satisfaction.

If it’s about the money, spend the time you’d spend tying flies working and earning money and buy your flies. You’ll not only be ahead, you’ll be far enough ahead to book a couple of guided trips a season, or a ‘destination’ trip every other year (you know, tarpon in the Bahamas or Peacock Bass in the Amazon, things like that).

If it’s about the rest of it, then slow down a bit. Pick one fly, your ‘favorite’, and get the stuff to tie it. Tie five or six dozen of them, or until you can tie a dozen of them and can’t tell them apart, whichever comes first (on all the ones that you CAN tell apart, cut the stuff off the hook and reuse the hook…you want to fish with only your ‘best’, both you and fish deserve no less). Then pick another pattern, buy the stuff to tie that one, and do the same…

After you’ve acquired several flies that you are comfortable with, catch fish with, and feel you can tie correctly enough to suit YOUR expectations (you and fish are the only ones who matter here), then you’ll know if this hobby/passion/addiction is for you or not.

If it’s not, it won’t matter, you’ll give it up and save time and money.

If it is, you’ll not care.

Buddy

19

Ok, so I can cut my list down quite a bit:) So that’s excellent! Some things I just plain want though. But others, such as the hackle etc, I’ll be waiting for. Untill next month:)

Buddy, Very good point, all of them. But I definitely know tying is for me. It’s a lot of fun. Even though I know it’ll consume a lot of my extra cash, and most of what isn’t extra:) But I know it’s what I wanna do.

Greg, I’m fairly close to Jay’s, never been yet. I’m closer to angling sports. Seems like a nice little shop, the owner is nice. I just dunno about his pricing though, since this is the first time Itying and buying materials. TO is too far for me though. I’ll tell them though and see about an email and website though. Thanks for the feedback on the list. It helps!

Yeah, lightning does seem to be an issue for me in this room. I should pick up a decent light, magnification isn’t really a problem, but it would help.

Gzacckey, that’s it!! It’s overwhelming, it’s nothing else, just that. That’s the entire problem, really. And now, after talking with Jim and you guys, it’s not so bad. A new, better vice would be nicer, for sure. But this one does what I need it to for now. But I definitely need scissors:)

Suppose it’s time to delete my list and make a new one. Since the only thing I’ll be tying is panfish flies, and some clousers. Some dry flies, but not very many. Now to figure out what I need again. This time NEED, not want lol.

Thanks again everyone, you’ve all been extremely helpful!
Shane

20

1000 feathers each,preserved in borax. This the stuff for tying? :slight_smile:

$25, good, bad, average?

What’s the difference between Fly fishing chenille and Phentex fashion chenille suede yarn?

Thanks a lot:)
Shane