I am a bit confused as to what thread to use for what application. Presently all of my flies are tied with danville flat waxed nylon. I am presently trying to lean to tie a bit small flies than I am used to (size 16, normal is 8-12) and I am wondering what thread I should be using. I looked at the store the other day and I saw a bunch of stuff that was measured in denier, which didn’t help me alot. is there a chart of thread suggestions that I am missing? or can some ine list their own personal suggestions for thread/applications?
I wish that I was more use to it. I snap 8/0 thread on a regular basis, I’m new at tying and my technique sucks. I try to use the heaviest thread that I can get away with and for me that usually translates into 6 for everything except very large flies.
HF80, for that 16, you are probably going to want to use 8/0. It’s good to have a variety of threads of course, but I usually find a pattern that I want to tie and the recipe will suggest a thread size that is appropriate.
On that Denier thing, the smaller the number the thinner the thread so UTC 70 is thinner than UTC 140.
I am with you; I too can break 8/0 really easy. I do tie with it on very small flies or what I call delicate thin body flies. I prefer 6/0 for most of my tying, you just have to remember to minimize the number of wraps or you end up with a huge build up of thread. For most of my saltwater flies, I prefer to use 3/0 since so many saltwater fish have nice big sharp teeth.
Denier is defined as the mass (in grams) of 9000 meters of the thread. So, a 9000-meter length of 70 denier thread would mass 70 grams.
Remember, there are not any RULES to fly tying. Do what you want. On the other hand, it is tougher to tie small flies with big thread. 95% of my flies get tied with 6/0 or 8/0 Uni thread, and the other 5% kevlar.
My concern is not about rules, but rather with the best thread for the application. I haven’t had a reason to consider thread size an issue before because most of my flies were large enough (warm water) that it didn’t matter from my point of view. However, I recently decided to try to tie up a few smallish trout flies as a way to improve my abilities (bluegill, crappies, and bass are a bit less selective). as i attempt these “trout” flies I notice that thread bulk is becoming an issue. I was just hoping to draw upon the knowledge of the group so that I had a place to begin.
presently I am tying Fox’s poopah from the FAOL archives, in size 16. while I realize that in the eyes of some fishermen/women size 16 may not seem small, it is the smallest fly that I have ever attempted to tie more than one or two of. So any suggestions about tying smaller flies would be helpful.
For saltwater and most bass/bluegill flies – flat waxed nylon. Sometimes 140 or 280, but usually FWN.
For 10-14 nymphs 6/0 or 70.
For 10 and smaller dries – 8/0. Yes, you will break it and learn to hate it, but it makes for a better fly.
For 16 or smaller nymphs 6/0 or 8/0 or 70.
Because flat waxed is flay, it lays down better and makes things like a smooth head easy. Round thread is just that and does not give as nice a finish – but…FWN is way too big for tiny patterns.
For most of my tying I use Danville’s 6/0. I tie down to 18 with it. For smaller flies I use 8/0 Uni thread or Gordon Griffiths spider web. A good 6/0 and 8/0 should cover most of your tying needs.
Sorry, I am the one that is confused. I guess that I should start drinking beer now, instead of waiting later and then I can think straight. 70 is thinner.
From the above link that I posted on thread:
Wapsi Wapsi isn’t a newcomer to fly tying, but has only recently entered the thread market. Wapsi is based in the US, and also distributes many other thread brands. Wapsi Ultra Thread is nylon, and has the appearance of floss. There is almost no twist and it flattens as well as any thread available. It is similar to Danville Flat Waxed Nylon, but available in smaller sizes. It has a shiny finish and the fluorescent colors are brilliant. It is a great substitute for floss. Both sizes are identical in feel and color. It is very easy to make multiple-turn whip finishes, and it creates very smooth heads on flies. Ultra Thread is lightly waxed. Wapsi is the first thread company to actively promote denier thread sizing. Spools are marked with color and size and include a color coded end cap to hold the thread end.
UTC 70. An excellent thread for small flies and low bulk big flies. The spreading nature of the thread makes it easy to tie low-profile flies. 18 colors. UTC 140. A great thread for flies #14 and larger. Useful for tying flies such as the Madam X, hoppers and Clousers. A good substitute for floss; 18 colors UTC 280. A nice flat thread for smooth heads on large flies and for tying bulky materials such as hair and wool. It makes excellent tags on steelhead flies; 10 colors.
Hi, dunno about denier but for a long while I tied all my flies (#12-14 mostly) with 6/0 and have now just started to switch over to 8/0 as I am tying mush neater and also smaller flies. Stick with the heavier threads until you get more experienced with the tension and neat wrap thing, then try to switch.
Now that Gudebrod is no longer avaliable:( I’ve found some 14/0 thread at Stockards its only avaliable in 12 color’s.
Haven’t tried "Gunecchi(spelling?)yet… none of the shop’s I frequent carry it. I tie down to 32’s it is not a disease or a addiction, I can stop at anytime.:rolleyes:
I tie most all of my flies using Wapsi UTC. I have it in 70, 140, and 280. Most of the flies I tie with 70. I find it to be strong enough for most flies up to size 8, bigger than that I use 140. The exception for me would be when spinning hair. Then I use mostly 140. I use the 280 for large saltwater and large bass flies. All of them will break at one time or another. It just takes practice to learn how much preasure to put on them. Most of my breacks accour because I have nicked the thread on the point of the hook. Just keep practicing and you will find that you will start tying with smaller and smaller threads. The more flies you tie the more you will learn about how much preasure you can use on each size thread. John
Obviously opinions differ but how MANY wraps you use is more critical than thread size. Beginning and even many advanced tiers use WAY too many wraps to secure materials figuring more is better.
When I started tying all I used was 6/0 (70 denier) thread and tied flies down into the 20’s. But when 8/0 (45 denier) became all the rage I HAD to go smaller figuring it would end my “big headed monster” problem. But when I started watching “real” tiers, I was amazed at how conservative they were with the number of wraps of thread they used. I also started realizing that my new found love, 8/0 thread required WAY too many wraps to build up a body or make a “decent” sized head on all but the smallest flies.
So after ingesting the combined wisdom of this board’s members and a few pros, I realized that less wraps was the root of MY problem and I cut back and now have rediscovered the beauty of using the “right” sized thread for the job. It really WAS annoying needing 32 wraps of 8/0 thread on a size 10 fly just to make a decent sized head.
I now use essentially four sizes of thread: 3/0 (176 denier) for streamers and pretty big stuff; 6/0 (70 denier) for size 10 and just about everything down to a size 14; 8/0 (45 denier) for the size 16 and below, all but the most minuscule; and I reserve my 10/0 (50 denier) for the “no-see-ums”; flies in the size 24-32 range which I do tie and fish regularly.
176-50 denier (3/0-10/0) works for me since I do venture into that really small fly range and I don’t tie the “woolly mammoths” or Gigantor flies that need Kevlar or any other special thread. I prefer flat thread over bonded or round because of the ability to twist or untwist it as needed so if I didn’t already have a lifetime supply of Gudebrod I’d use Danville.
And finally; learn the denier system. Many manufacturers mark denier on their spools since it is the only really accurate way to compare sizes. The “aught” system is basically a load. Some manufacturers sell stuff marked as 14/0 that has a higher denier than stuff marked 10/0 by other manufacturers. All that really matters is diameter and breaking strength. Just like tippet material I like to use the biggest I can effectively get away with.
Take a visit to Chris Helm’s Whitetail Fly Tying website and download his PDF catalog. There used to be an excellent thread comparison chart on page 15 that is well worth reading.
Ultimately you will find out what works best for you.
Thanks for the advice guys, I went out and bought a spool of UTC70 and it made a huge difference in the way that the fly looked. It also made it much easier to tie b/c I don’t have to worry so much about not having room due to too much thread bulk.
If you want a strong fine thread for flies 16 and smaller, look for GSP 50 made by UTC.
You will bend the hook before you break the thread. It costs more than the UTC 70 but it’s worth the price.
UTC 70. An excellent thread for small flies and low bulk big flies. The spreading nature of the thread makes it easy to tie low-profile flies. 18 colors.
UTC 140. A great thread for flies #14 and larger. Useful for tying flies such as the Madam X, hoppers and Clousers. A good substitute for floss; 18 colors
UTC 280. A nice flat thread for smooth heads on large flies and for tying bulky materials such as hair and wool. It makes excellent tags on steelhead flies; 10 colors.
Personally, I don’t find 280 all that flat, but could be just me.
—sagefisher—
70 is thinner.