Well I am 25 and have seriously thinking of becoming a guide on the white river system and am wanting some input on it good or bad some helpful info would be nice. Also what about guide school is it all that it is crack up to be or is it just a expensive fishing trip that youdon’t really get to fish on. I already know how to drive manuver a boat. Hve been doing it since I was knee high to a grass hopper which was about 10 years ago. So what do you have to do to become a guide?
Alex
Bluegill,
Go for it man!
Guiding is way different than fishing for fun, however. Before guiding, if I didn’t feel like fishing (wasn’t very often), I didn’t go. If the weather was unbearable, I stayed home. If the fishing was lousy, I’d quit and go back another day.
On the other hand, as a guide, there is a self-imposed pressure to catch fish. You fish no matter what! You need to have plenty of stories to fill the time when the fishing isn’t non-stop action.
Being a guide is way more than being a good fisherman, though that is a start. You also need to be a leader, an instructor, an expert with regulations, a medic, a cook, an entertainer, a mechanic, a janitor, and at times a baby-sitter.
Though it is rare, there is a small percentage of clients that cannot be pleased no matter what. Many guides think, “I can stand anyone for 8 hours.” My premise is that it is my boat, if a person is ruining the experience for the rest of the boat, it’s back to the dock with a refund. Thankfully I haven’t had to take anyone home yet, but a guide must have the good of the order in mind and be willing to make the difficult decisions.
All that being said, I can’t think of a better profession! I truly love seeing folks landing the biggest fish of their lives; or any fish for that matter. I love showing people the river and wilderness that I consider my back yard. I love to serve.
If you enjoy being around and helping people, are a natural leader and willing to go the extra mile, guiding is an extremely rewarding adventure. And besides that, people actually pay you to go fishing! It really doesn’t get any better than that.
Some advice: Don’t go into debt for anything as a guide. No debt = No pressure, gives you plenty of options and freedoms. I fish because I love it, not becuase I have to make a boat payment!
Also, get to know your local gear reps. Most reputable companies want you to use their gear and offer great pro pricing (plenty of restrictions apply). In fact, many of the manufacturers that sponsor this site will have guide programs.
Finally, promoting a guide business is all about repeat customers and referrals. It will take some time to build a client list, but well worth the sweat. Make your customers happy fishers and the catching suddenly becomes secondary.
If there is a way that I can help you out, shoot me an email (address in profile).
Good luck.
Ed
blue gill
On the left hand side of the page click on FEATURES then Click on Al Campbell , then scroll down to the bottom of the page and read Al’s enlightening article about becoming a guide . If you still want to become a guide after reading what AL has to say about it , go for it !
Hey Blue Gill…
Lets talk sometime…
Im trying to become a guide myself… Im not really on the White river… but a part of it, Taneycomo…
What I have found out is (if anyone want to correct me they are more then welcome!!)
1st… Money has to be very important to start…
2nd… I believe you need the be a certifed casting instector… your going to have alot of people who cant cast
3rd… If you going to use a drift I dont think you need a CCL (Coast Gaurd Lis.) but if you use a boat with a moter you need one. from what I hear that it seft takes abot $1000… and its in St.Louis (I believe)
4th… Insurance is a b**ch… from what I hear locally all guide (in the drift boats) carries a 1mil Ins policy (just in case of a death or a personal injury)
5th… alot to more add but not enough time…
Here is my Email addy lkeeney@earthlink.net=LKEENEY
shoot me an email or give me a call (417-779-8061)… I wont be around today or tomorrow… but should be home all day Sunday…Lets Talk… maybe we can help each other get started…
[This message has been edited by Leonard (edited 20 January 2006).]
Just a couple thoughts:
You will not be paid to go fishing…you are being paid to take someone else fishing and you will not be fishing.
Take a CPR course…a client can have a heart attack.
Have a cell phone that gives a constant signal so that in an emergency, someone can locate you by GPS
There is a lot more that others can contribute to this profession. It is not all that most people think it is. It requires a lot of responsibility on your behalf.
Just my $.01 worth.
Warren
[This message has been edited by WarrenP (edited 20 January 2006).]
BG, …
I agree with Gnu Bee’s idea, … Click on Al Campbell’s column: [url=http://www.flyanglersonline.com/alcampbell/ac112601.html:aff14]http://www.flyanglersonline.com/alcampbell/ac112601.html[/url:aff14]
Some ideas to ponder.
Also some threads … [url=http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/Forum1/HTML/013577.html:aff14]http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/Forum1/HTML/013577.html[/url:aff14] [url=http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/Forum1/HTML/015050.html:aff14]http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/Forum1/HTML/015050.html[/url:aff14]
That said, … GO FOR IT!!
imho, … you’ll never know if you don’t try it.
e-mail me if you like.
Christopher Chin, Jonquiere Quebec
[url=http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/Forum1/HTML/015738.html:aff14]2006 FishIn Ste-Marguerite River[/url:aff14]
[url=http://pages.videotron.com/fcch/:aff14]Fishing the Ste-Marguerite[/url:aff14]
[This message has been edited by fcch (edited 20 January 2006).]
Bluegill, first of all, you need to decide just how important flyfishing is to you. I got into the guiding game about 6 years ago, and after about three seasons I had some experiences that nearly took the enjoyment out of the sport for me. At that point I decided to step back a bit and diversify. I went from doing 90 plus trips a season to doing 30 or so, and was alot happier.
Guiding is a lot of work. Everyone that wants to be a guide, I think realizes this somewhat, though they never truly appreciate it until it’s too late.
Leonard is right about a couple of things. First, it is pretty expensive. If you guide throgh a shop, in all likelyhood they’ll provide rods, waders and such to the sports. Everything else is usually up to you. To give you some idea: I just went over my tackle receipts for this past season. Heres the breakdown; 32 full day trips, after tips figure an average of 350 to 400 a day before expenses. mileage $3700 and change, flies, tippet, lines, leaders, indicators, split shot and so on $2650 (at a 30% shop discount or pro deal pricing) Lunches, drinks $1200 (aprox.)
You do the math. Thats more like a hobby than a living as far as I’m concerned, and thats considering that I didn’t have to pay for the outfitter liscense, insurance or river permits.
One more bit of advice. You needn’t be a casting instructor; you’re only guiding most folks for a day or two at the most and that’s not enough time to even begin to get them to the point where they can get a dryfly where it needs to be. The thing to do is figure out ways to get the client onto fish without having to cast well ie nymphing. Get good at nymphing and your sucess as a guide will increase greatly.
Sounds like fun to me I like teaching people and also like learning new things. For some reason I like to sit back and watch someone fish rather than fish don’t get me wrong I do love to fish I have been fishing since I was 3 years old now I am 25 now and am not looking to stop fishing anytime soon. It seems to me that I need to find a good casting instructor and I need to do a cpr class and update my phone thanks for the info and keep it coming.
Alex
Once you’ve made the decision, you need to become really familar with the water(s) you will be guiding on. That includes where the fish are in every possible water/weather and season condition. It’s more than dishonest to call yourself a guide if you for sure can’t put your clients on fish. (You should have been here yesterday is not acceptable).
The region you live in has a long season, but for folks guiding in more northern places, you’ll find the ability to have clients is much more limited. For example, we used to figure in Livingston MT we had a 45 day season. Yes, there were a few beyond that, but not enough to make a living. Most guides held 2nd jobs…and since you are only available for ‘part’ of the year, they aren’t the top of the line jobs either.
If I were to do it today, I’d include some things to make my services ‘special’ - like a video of the client casting or landing a fish, or at least good digital photos of the trip. A shore lunch is standard in some places, the better the lunch, the happier the client. Great stuff can be done with a little planning.
And finally, once you’ve done everything to get licensed (varies greatly from state to state) it is your attitude and ability which makes your business. Oh, and did I mention it IS a business?
LadyFisher, Publisher of
FAOL
Hi Blue Gill,
The very first thing I recommend you do is inquire about how much your guide service insurance will cost.
Leonard wisely cited $1 million as the basic coverage you should carry. It’s true; we unfortunately live in a society where many, many people love filing lawsuits. The idea of an “honest accident” by a guide is alien to their way of thinking.
And it’s not just on-the-water insurance that will cover you and your clients and their equipment during the fishing trips. You will occasionally (perhaps mainly) be transporting clients and their gear in your personal vehicle. That means your auto insurance must be expanded from the existing personal-type coverage to a comprehensive business-type policy. Trust me: you will notice a price jump.
Once you add together these two insurance expenses (operation and vehicle) you can make a rough calculation of how much money you need per year just to operate your business. (Money above equipment start-up expenses.)
The hard part about starting up a guide service is wondering if you’ll book enough clients to pay for the insurance alone. Forget making a profit and becoming an established fishing guide: honestly ask yourself if you stand to make enough money to pay your annual insurance bills?
A few years ago I bought boats, paddles, tents, other gear and fully equipped myself to go into business as a professional river canoeing guide. My guide service was going to specialize in unsupported long range wilderness-style downriver solo canoe trips on the Kansas River. My guide service was specifically constituted for taking ONE CLIENT AT A TIME downriver (client in his/her solo canoe, me in my solo canoe).
This restrictive arrangement was intended to reduce noise and thereby give every client the best possible chance to enjoy up-close wildlife viewing. But I also knew that taking only one client out at a time would be the safest possible way to paddle the river.
Still, to be sure about client safety I took First Aid classes, I acquired cell phone service; I wrote a lengthy pamphlet that explained my operating method to prospective customers. I did all sorts of little things to protect my would-be clients, and myself.
Thinking these steps would so impress an insurance agent that it would reduce my premium to near nothing, I was stunned when told how much the annual premium would cost…and this was from the only insurance carrier I could find who was willing to cover me. I simply could not afford the annual insurance, and although it broke my heart I gave up on becoming a river guide.
In my case, it turned out I’d done EVERYTHING bass-ackwards. I’d spent thousands of dollars outfitting a river guide service that died in the womb. (Well, at least I still have all the gear!)
One thing I know about you without even asking: You want to show people a good time on the river, but most of all you want each client to take away a deep appreciation of the river or rivers that you yourself find so beautiful and inspiring.
Client happiness and satisfaction isn’t always about whether they catch fish, although catching something doubtless gets taken into account by most people.
I recently booked a springtime panfishing trip with a Kansas fly fishing guide who will be taking me to areas in the state that I’ve always wanted to fish but never have, including a considable amount of privately-owned water.
I’m not concerned about catching fish as much as I am just seeing some pretty new water, some new scenery. If there’s one thing I hope to accomplish on my trip, it’s to be the best client that this guide ever books. All the mental preparations I went through to become a guide myself, it really sensitized me to the quality-of-client issue. So I want to be someone who the guide remembers as being one of his better customers.
Joe
“Better small than not at all.”
Have any of the guides here used liability forms and are they effective?
Good answers everyone. I have been guiding for 4 years now and your advice is right on.
Montana guides must work for an outfitter, or pass the strict requirements to become one.
When JC and I were guiding for the late Dan Bailey, he was the outfitter and had all the necessary insurance. Back then, guides also had to be bonded, which supposedly kept the rift-raft out, (at least any with a police record).
Here is Washington state there are no requirements for a guide unless you are using a boat or fishing on the salt. You pay your $185 and you are a “guide.” Not good. Pathetic actually.
LadyFisher, Publisher of
FAOL
I was talking with a friend of mine that guides out of Blue Ribbon in Arkansas and he said anyone off the street could get a guides license for 25 dollars. Thats ridiculous and this is also another reason why I am asking questions first before I jump into it and it all falls apart. I thank everyone for there input and am looking forward in reading everyones do’s and dont’s. I want to be a good guide from the begining.
You know I read this whole thing and there are parts I agree with and some I do not.
Montana is not a place to become a guide anymore. The state has made a mess out of the whole thing. They now have a section that does nothing but take care of the guides and outfitters. They have to keep raising prices and adding new thing for guides to pay for just to keep there doors open. I just read the new Issue of FOAM. That is the group that was formed to get cheaper insurance and has now become spokesmen for the fishing outfitters. Problem is that the good people that should run FOAM don’t have the time so they get shall we say less than the best reps.
I saw were someone thought it was a bad thing for people to just be able to get a license and guide. I don’t think it is. WHY? Because they will not be in businees long if they don’t know what they are doing. People will get the word out and that will be that. But when you get to much governament into it you will be paying “BIG” the rest of your guiding days.
If people hiring a guide don’t have enough brains to ask for refferences then that is there problem.
Just to show what I mean. It now costs more to be a guide or an outditter per year per license than it does to be a Doctor or a Nurse. The last time I looked at it a guide had no were near the responsibality of either one. You are taking to people for a few hours fishing. Nothing more or less. If the guide does a good job the people may come back if he or she dosnen’t they for sure will not be back. Nothing that I know of says that the people looking for a guide can’t Check people out and find a good one. What ever happened to people being responsible for thermselves?
I would be glad if I had just what Arkansas has for guide laws. Don’t knock it as you could be made to go through all the hoops that guides and outfitters do in Montana all in the name of taking a couple of people fishing. They have never put a number on how many guides that can be licensed in this state either. They sould have done that years ago. Now there are so many that none of them can make a good living doing it. There are over 600 guides in just two county’s and I live in one of them. But the state likes all that money flowing in.
The newest twist the state is talking about for the guides and outfitters here is that the guide or outfitter may have to have insurnace to cover the people that shuttle there trucks incase they get hurt. Seems to me if the people doing the shuttles are licensed by the state (Which They Now Have To Be) the state would make them cover themselves and have there own insurance. See what I mean about wishing you had more reg’s? Be glad you have what you do.
I can tell you one thing I would be looking to do there. I would buy a boat that I could use to fish the lakes there and take people on lakes to. And yes it would be worth getting the Coast Guard license. If the river is blown out you have an option and you can take people that would like to try other types of fishing to. I would also have a boat with a motor in the river so that I would not have to pay for a shuttle everyday. They are not cheap anymore. Out here if you guide say 6 days a week the shuttle alone will cost you about $120.00 for the week, Add that up over the season.
I will tell you the truth and that is if I was going to guide again it would not be in Montana. I would go to Arakansas or Wisconsin or even Texas and guide the salt. It just isn’t worth the hassle out here anymore. At least I don’t think it is. It will cost you over a thousand dolors each year here just to start to guide for the year. Maybe one day the guides and outfitters here will stick together and tell the state “Enough is Enough” The guides and outfitters are the ones bringing the people into the state and making the state money and in return they get craped on by the state year after year. Just my two cents. Be glad you are in Arkansas. Ron
[This message has been edited by RonMT (edited 21 January 2006).]
To find out a bir more information about our sepcific area go over to . [url=http://www.flyfishingarkansas.com:7385e]www.flyfishingarkansas.com[/url:7385e] there are several guides on that board, in cluding JimmyT, Fish, flyfishar (John Wilson) and others who can offer some more insight to the White and Norfork River guiding business.
These are the idle thoughts that posses a man’s mind when he’s not able to fish.
blue gill,
You probably won’t make much money your first year. Between advertising costs, new rods, Boat?if needed, insurance. You will need to advertise more your first year to get your name out there. Don’t quit your “Other” job so you have something to fall back on. I Guide in the Finger Lakes and found out of all the money I spent on adertising what got me 90% of my clients was a free link to my website on the local visitors website. Guiding is not easy, you dont get paid much,(once you figure in costs) but it is fullfilling. Good Luck
Gill - I’m 26, and the same thoughts have crossed my mind on several occassions about guiding. I know I can put people on fish, and if you can put up with the weather, its a 12 months opportunity in VA, although its slows considerably in the winter.
My steps - I’m “guiding for free” right now. I concentrate on making sure the other(s) are enjoying and catching fish. I try to get as much information about their experience and expectations ahead of time so i can suit a trip to their desires. I fish very little - if they are catching, I may try something different to see if maybe I can put them on some bigger fish, or if they aren’t catching, I will try other means to see what they need to do to catch. Otherwise, I’m coaching, and “driving”, hit that spot, take up slack, get ready he’s rising under the fly…etc
Being a fisherman, too much equipment is not enough - so I’m constantly acquiring new stuff - which will be used by others. some boats, canoe, kayak, etc…smaller boats - anytime I see something that may be handy later, and I can fit it in the budget, its going home with me.
I will keep my “day job” as I move into guiding part time. Again, don’t want to go into debt and have to work my way out of it. I want to have everything I need, and guide as much or as little as I want to for the enjoyment of teaching others and showing them a good time. As time goes on, if I’m good, word will get out, along with advertising, and it will reach a point where I can guide most of the time to support myself, if I choose. I do not expect to make a fortune guiding, and I really don’t expect to even make a comfortable living – a second job, atleast for me, is a must.
Insurance - a very good idea to have it, the more the better. Waivers - not a free pass, but still not a bad idea - get help from insurance or a lawyer in putting them together.
Know your waters, and learn new waters - offering more options will open up opportunity with more clients - not everybody wants to fish dry’s for giant browns on river X - different waters, different methods, to include spinning gear is not a bad idea. Sponsors - every little bit will help.
Finally, you’ll have to be a people person - putting up with somebody for a day is not the goal - you really need to be able to get along to the point its like fishing with a friend. People like to share their good times, but bad news will spread like wildfire, and if you really bump heads with a client or two, count on people finding out about it.
Good luck if you choose to follow this path - if you’d like to discuss more, vmineck01@hotmail.com, I’ll try to help as much as I can.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming - “WOW-What a Ride!”
Don’t take life too seriously, you’ll never get out alive.
I’ve never been a fishing guide, but I was in the hunting guide business for several years. I’m not going to go into all my reasons here, but DON’T DO IT! FORGET ABOUT IT! JC’s right. If you have to ask, then the answer is NO! If you want to email me, I’ll be happy to tell you why. But if I do it here, I’m just going to hurt a bunch of folks’ feelings.
My New Year’s resolution is to have more fun…even if YOU don’t.
Hey blue gill, let me start by saying I’m not a guide but heres my 2 cents. DO IT!!! DO IT!!! DO IT!!! With all due respect to all you guides out there I’m sure your job is hard and at times down right stinks but so does my job. I’m indoors around machinery that stinks and is loud, I deal with very annoying customers who you can’t please no matter what, I could go on but you get the idea. So what if you try it and you hate it at least you gave it a shot. I wanted to be a guide for a long time but people talked me out of it just like some seem to be doing here. So I didn’t and now I’m working at a place I hate. Maybe it wouldn’t have worked out for me but it kills me that I didn’t at least try. So good luck and keep us posted on how things go.
I’m not a guide either, but the thought has crossed my mind. I have been self-employed most of my adult life [operating my own truck] which is no picnic. Before I bought my first truck I asked alot of quetions. Some were supportive but most were negative. It’s good that you’re asking questions, you get a better idea of what you’re getting into.
My 2 cents is GO FOR IT. Like Turk said success or failure you don’t want regret not trying it later.
To get the fruit, you gotta go out on the limb.
To fish or not to fish?
What a stupid question.