This story is not about flyfishing but about taking responsibility for your life. I believe bad money management is one of the worst things in the world. It destroys marriages and ruins lives. How can we learn before it’s too late?
Debt A Bitter Pill For Future Doctor
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Yo … >1=10330
click on Full Story (above featured tool)
I would like to know what you think of the story!
Thanks,
Doug
Compare it to her starting salary and then to the salary she will be making in 5 years. From that viewpoint it is not so bad. I don’t see alot of doctors going into the poor house or suffering in their retirements.
The system of eduation and the costs involved is out of wack. I am much more concerned with the teacher that has to borrow for four years of college and then starts at $30,000 per year. That is the real tragedy.
jed
And then there’s the proverbial " working your way through college". This usually, as in my case, doesn’t solve the problem of student loans but does help in keeping the outstanding balances " in balance". Pre-med and Medical school are another color horse. These courses are expensive to begin with lab fees etc. and require more study time than some other less demanding career choices. More study time means less time to “work your way…”. In the cited story, it seems Tara was clearly out of control and needed financial counseling all along her educational way.
Mark
Doug- My friend has completed his medical training and is now employed in his chosen profession. His first years salary exceeds that of the debt incured by the lady in the article.
Tim
And then there’s the proverbial " working your way through college". This usually, as in my case, doesn’t solve the problem of student loans but does help in keeping the outstanding balances " in balance"
In the 1960’s you could work a half time job at minimum wage and pay your tuition and books etc. now it would take a full time and a half time job at minimum wage to pay for the same things. So much for working your way through college.
I talk daily into students going to school full time, working two jobs and takeing out loans just to survive.
This is one of those somthing has to be done things.
Eric
Normally I wouldn’t post a story that was so removed from fishing but I don’t ever remember seeing anything like this Lady’s problems. I have had a bad attitude about kids going into college debt to start their lives but this is amazing!
Doug
As someone else pointed out, the problem isn’t really the doctors making 6 figures and having to repay $200-300k in student loan debt that is the social danger. The social danger is the police officer, school teacher, banker, accountant, artist, journalist, musicians, and so forth who have to have degrees to even pretend to be competitive, and those degrees cost $100k to $200k to get, and the jobs pay $20-30k for the first several years. The loan payments are not prorated based on income or earning potential. They are flat-rate for 10-20 years. Assume that a kid gets 50% of a $200k education covered by scholarships and grants. That leaves $100k either from relatives or student loans. $100k worth of student loans generate a loan payment of nearly $1000/mo that begins 6 months after college graduation. This kid with a great education, tons of potential, who has worked hard and stayed out of trouble lands a “good job” in their chosen profession paying $36k/year at age 22-3. No benefits for the first year, btw. That’s $3,000/mo. Take away the debt payment, and that leaves $2,000/mo before taxes…which is actually about $1,600/mo after taxes. That good job is ALWAYS in a major city. $1,000/mo for rent and utilities doesn’t buy you much. That leaves $600. Need a car? $300/mo MINIMUM. Need to eat? That’s averaging $400/mo for single person who is frugal and eats meals at home nowadays. So this kid is already $100/mo in the RED and doesn’t even have a newspaper subscription, a phone, TV, an internet connection, furniture, health insurance, or clothes to wear to work.
THIS is the reality for about 80% of college graduates in America nowadays…the ones who GET employed in their field within 6 months of graduation. I hear that only about 1/2 actually do.
FYI, a police officer in my hometown needs a degree in criminal justice, sociology, psychology, or criminology to be competitive. He can get that degree from community college for about $50k if he’s really, really frugal. Starting pay for a local police officer is $13.50/hour…MAX. That’s $24,000/year before taxes. Do the math. That’s why most of our cops are idiots. Only a moron would embark upon a career plan like that.
I guess I was lucky (in a way). I was drafted and went to the Marine Corps. When I returned from Vietnam, we still had the OLD GI Bill, from WW-II. All I had to do was be accepted into a college (Texas A & M) and the Government paid for everything; books, tuition, lab fees, housing, and even a monthly stipend to pay for expenses like gas, car insurance, food. It was not a loan. I payed for it by risking my hide.
I think that’s the way it should be, at least if you served in combat. I would’ve never been able to go to A & M on my own. It was one way that a person of modest means could get an education. My father got his degree at SMU after WW-II. He served as a Coast Guard Bombadier/Flight Engineer on a PBY Catalina and fought in the Battle of the North Atlantic. He really came from a poor Depression-Era family, and that was his ticket to a good education.
Our Government spends so much money on very questionable pursuits, miilions per week, and yet, a person of decent character and high intelligence cannot get an education, unless they are able to get access to several thousands of dollars, and go in debt before they even really enter the work force.
There should be a better system in the Land Of The Free. Anyone who is able, qualified and has the desire, should be able to go to some college, and either the Government or Private Industry should fund it. After all, who benefits from an educated population?..WE ALL DO! I realize there are scholarships, but they are only open to a select few who meet thier criteria. Not nearly enough to go around.
I would just as soon my Tax money go to pay for someone’s education, than for most of the useless junk they do with it now.
Semper Fi!
A-----MEN!!!
My Dad was able to attend Willamette University on the G.I. Bill. Without that Bill, it wouldn’t have happened.
Dad served in the Navy in WW2. He went from a scared kid in Basic Training (Had to jump off a tower into water, he didn’t know how to swim in), to a College educated Chemist and a FINE Father!!
Looking back on my young married days, isn’t LIFE enough of an Adventure without going into Debt up to your eyeballs, right at the beginning???
Doug
I have tried several times to write a reply to this statement, and cannot do so without the passion rising within me. I will defer so I don’t lose my posting privileges or ruffle the feathers of anyone who believes the government is really there to help us.
Joe
I got my BA from SMU by accepting an ROTC scholarship and spending a total of 8 years in the military to pay for it. During that time, I went to guard the Costa Rican border during the Nicaraguan civil war, Panama to root out Manuel Noriega, the Persian Gulf to kick Sadam Hussein out of Kuwait, and to the Phillippines to try and find an Exxon VP kidnapped by Abu Saef (AQ in the PI)…along with a couple of specops on submarines I can’t discuss the details of. Today, I’m a disabled vet living below the poverty level. I’m still fighting to get my $30k worth of student loan debt that I accrued to make up the difference between my “full scholarship” and the actual costs of education forgiven due to permanent disability (which is supposed to happen, but almost never does). I was forced to file bankruptcy several years ago by all of this. Being disabled, I now have a lot of free time on my hands. So I volunteer with Project Healing Waters as the Regional Coordinator for OK, AR, and MO…trying to help guys who came back from their attempts to get an education in WAY worse shape than me.
God Bless America!
SilverMallard,
I SALUTE YOU! For your service to our country. I didn’t spend my Life in the Military, but I fought my own ‘personal’ war and became disabled. You and I followed the same path when it came to Volunteering. I have Volunteered 2 days a week for the past 5 yrs and it has changed my Life from a selfish, whiny, unhappy person. to someone who can look outside my own problems and HELP others!
I’ve had plenty of money and material things in my Life but it’s been replaced by Happiness!
Thanks,
Doug 
quote from Silver Mallard
… That’s why most of our cops are idiots. Only a moron would embark upon a career plan like that…
SM, I really resent that statement. Fact is right now, I probably shouldn’t even attempt to answer that, as I’m really pi**ed.
My son is one of those cops. He, and the other hard working, dedicated cops in his department, put their lives on the line daily to protect your sorry as*. He spent 6 years in the military (101st Airborne), one in Kuwait, to earn his college bill rights. He has made me proud of everyday he’s been alive, and police are known to be put in harms way that could seriously shorten that life span. Three of his brothers in blue were shot this last week alone in Kansas City. Another was seriously injured in an accident responding to a call. Does he have outstanding bills? Sure he does. For what they do they’re not paid nearly enough. It takes a totally selfless person to chose a career like that. Thank you to my Tim, and all the guys and gals in blue, who make it possible for us to sleep at night.
Morons, huh? You disgust me.
Betty,
You seem to have missed the word “most” and the fact that I was talking about SPRINGFIELD MISSOURI cops being SEVERLY UNDER-PAID.
There was NO generic reference to all police officers, and certainly none to your son.
[quote=“DShock”]
SilverMallard,
I SALUTE YOU! For your service to our country. I didn’t spend my Life in the Military, but I fought my own ‘personal’ war and became disabled. You and I followed the same path when it came to Volunteering. I have Volunteered 2 days a week for the past 5 yrs and it has changed my Life from a selfish, whiny, unhappy person. to someone who can look outside my own problems and HELP others!
I’ve had plenty of money and material things in my Life but it’s been replaced by Happiness!
Thanks,
Doug :D[/quote]
Yeah, I was concerned that might come off as “bitter” or “whiny.” But I made my choices based on the best info I had at the time. Things didn’t break my way. Oh well. I don’t dwell on the past or on what I don’t have. I focus on what I can do with what I’ve got. I made that post to make a few points about the TOPIC of the thread:
That poor doctor…tsk, tsk, tsk. Why do we read articles about doctors having big education debt, when there are at least 10 times as many lower-paying professions requiring a higher debt-to-income ratio?
It can always be worse.
What we are doing to our youth as a society vis a vis education and economics is horribly immoral.
Thanks for “getting it.”
Betty,
My nephew Daniel became a Policeman, but first served in the Military (MP) and came home with the discipline that it takes to do the Job. Dan and his Dog Titus LOVE to catch criminals so SilverMallard can sleep easy at night!
Cops aren’t stupid, but criminals, YEA! THEIR Stupid!
Doug
Oh, no. I saw the word MOST. And I saw, “That’s why most of our cops are idiots. Only a moron would embark upon a career plan like that…” ANY COP, someone who wears the blue, or tan, or black. ANY COP where ever he or she is. Do not disparage them, or their chosen field, to keep you and yours safe. ANY COP is my sons brother and sister.
And Doug … I didn’t?
Glad to hear it!
Again, Betty, “our” was a reference to SPRINGFIELD. And I still stand by my statement that only a moron would spend $50k to get a job that pays $10.50 - $13.50 an hour when he could make that at a fast food restaurant or tending bar with no education.
So…all those crooked cops and that idiot DEA agent who shot himself in the foot while showing off in an elementary school classroom…THOSE cops are all your son’s “brothers and sisters?”
Grow up. Perhaps you are actually advocating that your son should be paid LESS? I don’t get it.
[quote=“SilverMallard”]
Again, Betty, “our” was a reference to SPRINGFIELD. And I still stand by my statement that only a moron would spend $50k to get a job that pays $10.50 - $13.50 an hour when he could make that at a fast food restaurant or tending bar with no education.
So…all those crooked cops and that idiot DEA agent who shot himself in the foot while showing off in an elementary school classroom…THOSE cops are all your son’s “brothers and sisters?”
Grow up. Perhaps you are actually advocating that your son should be paid LESS? I don’t get it.[/quote]
"ALL those crooked cops?’
Your quite the Wise Guy! How many crooked cops do YOU know??
How many crooked neighbors do you have?? Do you disparage the whole LOT of people because of the actions of a few?
Doug 
P>S. You had better watch it! No one on this BB tells Betty to “GROW UP”