When does tippet strength become strong enough that 20lb dacron backing (or the backing to flyline knot)becomes the weakest link when all the fly line is out of the rod? For instance, if tippet rating is 14lbs does one need to be a little careful how much pressure to exert on a fish when all the flyline is out of the rod and the backing is 20lbs? Breaking off a tippet is one thing but breaking off a flyline is quite another.
Thanks,
Ole
A good rule of thumb is to never use a tippet that tests heavier than your backing, although the tippet knot will usually give way first.
Many salt water guys around here regularly use straight 20# test mono for a leader. That’s why they make 30# backing
It will take a lot of pressure to break 20 lb backing. You can lean on a big fish pretty hard without much worry. If you have a 14lb tippet and 20lb backing you probably won’t break either unless you are fighting an absolute beast. I have landed a number of saltwater fish up to 18lbs on 16-20lb tippett (9wt) and never once have I been broken off.
We just had a thread that a 12lb trout was caught on a 6x tippet. That’s 3.6 lb test.
Have landed a 13b 2oz on a 4lb test tippet, so obviously the rod takes a lot of the stress off the backing, line, tippet. The results would be much different if you had a straight pull on the same setup without a rod to cushion it.
Old, rotted backing…weaker link.
Quinn
A little different view.
I got into a discussion one time with an old timer over this same question. I was concerned about using a lightweight leader so I wouldn’t lose my flyline. We were discussing using 30lb test for a leader in rocky big surf conditions where a fish could easily rub through a double 30 lb leader. His response to me was we don’t fly fish to save money. If I had any hope of landing a good fish 30 lb of hard mono was the minium leader to use. Everytime you throw your line out there with any type of leader you risk losing it.
First of all try an put 20 lbs of pressure on a fly rod. Unless you are pointing the rod at the target you can’t do it without ending up with a multi piece rod, more than the two to four pieces it should be. Fly rods are good at protecting light leaders and delivering presentations. They are poor at hook setting and putting heavy pressure on fish.
I took his advice and haven’t regretted it yet. I have had small fish rub through 30 lb hard mono not because I put 30 lbs of pressure on them but because it wore out on the rocks. I have not yet lost a fly line to a snag or a fish. My hooks will usually bend if I get a snag before my leader flyline or backing parts.
If you are really worried about it get some really heavy backing or use a light leader and plan on losing a lot of fish.
A little different view.
I got into a discussion one time with an old timer over this same question. I was concerned about using a lightweight leader so I wouldn’t lose my flyline. We were discussing using 30lb test for a leader in rocky big surf conditions where a fish could easily rub through a double 30 lb leader. His response to me was we don’t fly fish to save money. If I had any hope of landing a good fish 30 lb of hard mono was the minium leader to use. Everytime you throw your line out there with any type of leader you risk losing it.
First of all try an put 20 lbs of pressure on a fly rod. Unless you are pointing the rod at the target you can’t do it without ending up with a multi piece rod, more than the two to four pieces it should be. Fly rods are good at protecting light leaders and delivering presentations. They are poor at hook setting and putting heavy pressure on fish.
I took his advice and haven’t regretted it yet. I have had small fish rub through 30 lb hard mono not because I put 30 lbs of pressure on them but because it wore out on the rocks. I have not yet lost a fly line to a snag or a fish. My hooks will usually bend if I get a snag before my leader flyline or backing parts.
If you are really worried about it get some really heavy backing or use a light leader and plan on losing a lot of fish.
This post got me thinking…Is it even possible to put enough pressure on a fish when you have the whole line out to break 20# backing or the knot. Now I am a saltwater newb. I started this past spring, and if I were to venture a guess, I probably spent at least 60 days on the water. I use a 9’ 9 weight with a tippett that is between 14 and 30 lb test. Never broke off a fish unless the tippett was damaged. In most of the books I have read the pros tell you to use a backing that is stronger in #test than your leader. In theory it sounds like a good idea-after all you certainly don’t want your weakest link to be behind a $65 fly line. But in reality, is there really likely to even be a problem if one were to use 20# backing with a 30# (or even heavier tippett)? There is a reason why I am asking this. On my 9wt I can only fit about 125 yards of 30#dacron, but I could probably get close to 200 yards if I drop down to 20. I used 30# because the “experts” said to use a backing that was at least as strong as the heaviest tippets you will use.
I have 20# backing on my 9wt lines, 30# on my 10wts
When you have a heavy (thick) line out, being pulled around every which way, plus a lot of backing too, there’s a lot of drag on the line.
The drag on that line, plus the pull of the rod adds up to more than you might think
That stress is on the backing, not the leader.
Granted,you don’t go that far into your backing everyday, but we’re talking a fish that you probably don’t want to loose.
Hi,
Just wondering what you are fishing for with 14 Lb tippet.
I fish for salmon alot of the time and I have never fished a tippet above 10 Lb and most of the time I fish 8 Lb. My backing is always 20 Lb. The biggest salmon to date is a 30 lb salmon on 8 Lb test. This fish took 35 minutes to land and I never saw my fly line for the first 25 minutes. I just couldn’t amagine using a 14 Lb tippet. The fly wouldn’t have to much movement.
My 2 cents worth,
Alan (salmonguy)
The guy holding the rod is the weakest link in my case. :oops: Later
Dear salmonguy,
I don’t know what Ole is fishing for out in Idaho, but I’ll bet you $ 100.00 that the guys from the NE USA who answered this thread are fishing for bluefish and striped bass.
There are times when stripers can be tough to catch on a heavy tippet, but you almost need it if you want your fly to get past the bluefish. Too light a tippet and the fly has no chance to get deep enough to catch a striper, a bluefish will just hit it and bite it off on light tippet. They have teeth like razor blades.
Under ideal conditions it’s a whole nother ball game. When either bluefish or stripers start busting bait they are not exactly leader shy.
Best Wishes,
Avalon 
Dear CT Bob,
If backing capacity is a concern for you maybe you want to look at gel-spun backing? It is considerably thinner for a given pound test than dacron.
Some people also use Power-Pro or one of the other braided high pound test/low diameter lines that are so common with the bass fisherman. I’m not exactly sure of the sizes beyond the 10/2, which is ten pound test with a 2 pound monofilament diameter, but I know they make up to sizes like 60/20.
I’ve been told you really need to careful with gel-spun and Power-Pro. You can wind it on wet and it will shrink and warp your fly reel spool if you are not careful.
Both gel-spun and Power-Pro are more abrasive than dacron. You have to be careful when backing is being taken out that you don’t touch your hands to the line. It’ll cut you like a high speed band saw blade. That’s one of the reasons some of saltwater guys wear gloves.
Best Wishes,
Avalon
Regarding Avalon’s comments on Spectra (Gel Spun or Gsp - its all the same) like Power Pro, Bionic Braid, Tuff Line, etc.:
Spectra lines are more slick,i.e. less friction than dacron. This is beneficial for reducing line drag but a problem for knots. The deal with possibly warping spools is due to packing the line too tight on a spool. Because of the finer diameter used compare to dacron, and the slickness, it needs to be packed tight to keep it from digging into itself on the spool under tension. You can damage some lesser quality spools by packing dacron on too tightly also. The fine diameter is what leads to cut hands if one is not careful.
On 20lb dacron and tippet strength. As noted earlier it is difficult to put a lot of pressure on fish with a rod. An experience angler can put more than 10lbs of pressure, most inexperienced and many experienced anglers do not come close. I often demonstrate this to newbies, asking them to pull as hard as they dare on a rod rigged with line and leader hooked to a spring scale. Rarely does someone get more than 2 to 3 lbs of pressure before they think they are going to break the line - and this with a 9wt rod.
So when does backing strength become an issue. I think rarely does an angler fight a fish on the backing - it is hard to get maximum pressure on fish when you have a lot of line out due to line stretch. Dudley mentioned line drag. I have run into this when fishing for yellowfin tuna when the fish changed direction with a couple of hundred yards of backing out. The combination of the powerful fish dragging all that line through the water parted 10kg tippet like it was nothing. With 20lb dacon, it is possible that the backing would have broken instead. I have seen this happen to other anglers, even when fishing lighter tippets. Just so happened that the greatest amount of pressure was in the backing due to the angles involved. This can happen with many fast moving saltwater creatures.
Another case that I have seen backing failures has again occured when tuna fishing. Your in a pretty good tuna blitz and hooked up to a tuna headed for the horizion. Meanwhile another tuna hits your taught line. POP! The force of another big fish hitting your tight line can cause it part.
Bluewater guys often argue the pros and cons of 20lb vs 30lb dacron, though most are going to spectra lines to get strength with reduced drag resulting from finer diameter line.
A third case that may cause backing failure is abrasion of the backing due to contact with other fish, boat hulls, reefs, rocks, and other structure. 30lb dacron is more abrasion resistant due to its greater diameter and may hold longer.
Bluewater anglers or those that fish around reefs are usually not strangers to lost flylines.
The most common reason I have seen for loss of flyline is a poor backing to flyline connection or one weakened by numerous battles.
It is very difficult for an angler to break the backing just through the pressure they are applying. With 14lb tippet, you are not likely to part 20lb backing unless it is damaged, you have a bad connection, or you have a line drag problem.
Dear tailingend,
Thank you for clearing up my misinformation about the super braid backing. I just knew I was told I had to be careful with it or I risked damaging my spools or maybe sawing off a finger so I just stuck with dacron and forgot exactly why. :lol:
Best Wishes,
Avalon
I’ve been using the “superlines” for backing for years now, and feel very comfortable with them. They last much longer than anything else on the market, being impervious to UV. They are also much thinner, causing less drag. I’ve never seen any indication of them cutting into guides or fingers any worse than any other lines. The only thing to be cautious of is that due to lack of stretch, you may find your entire spoolful of line spinning on the spool of your reel after a few trips. This is caused by the lack of stretch in the GSP lines. I usually spool up a few yards of 20 or 30# Dacron or nylon before adding the GSP. The stretch of the Dacron or nylon assures me of a good grip on the reel spool.
Wow…for UV to be a problem on backing…and spinning on the spool …you must be doing some incredible fishing…I envy you :shock:
Thank you for all your responses. A common theme was that it’s not very likely that one could put enough pressure with a flyrod to break 20lb backing. That sounds exactly right. I’ve used 12lb tippet (with loop knot to enhance fly movement)on Alaska silvers so I could force a faster landing and release. This makes me more confident to spool up a saltwater rig with 20# rather than deal with some of the negative aspects of gel spun type backing.
Ole