The bass are out, but I'm not seeing any panfish yet...

I was out with my wife last weekend to my favorite warmwater lake. We weren’t fly fishing, but trolling in our little boat with ultralight spinning rods.

I made it a point to check out all the spots where I know that the gills had spawning beds last year as well as some spots that had been full of crappie. Didn’t see a single panfish anywhere on the lake all afternoon. We did see a fair amount of bass cruising the shallows, though, and some really nice ones at that.

We’ve been having some beautiful sunny weather lately so I figured the gills would be up on the beds by now. I’m not sure what temp the water was. What is the timing generally like for gills to become active and hit the shallows in relation to the bass? Maybe I’m just overanxious. Patience grasshopper, patience…

Oh, and my wife ended up catching a super fat 18 1/2 inch largemouth. I thought she had snagged the bottom as she couldn’t move it off the bottom. I told her to tighten the drag and break it off and when she did the line started moving! Pretty exciting stuff on a little ultralight rod with 4 pound test line. Of course I got skunked…

Most of the panfish [except crappie] seem to spawn at about 70-72 degrees in my neck of the woods. There are generally prespawn movements starting when the water goes over 60 degrees but the fish will move in and out to some set of signals that only they seem to see/hear.

Donald

[This message has been edited by beadleech (edited 04 May 2006).]

Bass spawn first, then bluegills. Bluegills will be found near bass beds, they feed on the eggs and fry when they can get away with it. In return the bass will feed on the gills post spawn when the gills are on the beds.

Crappies spawn at the same time or right before the bass. I’m not sure where you are, geographically, but the bass are just starting to get into the beds in Ohio now. Crappies are just now getting shallow. In two weeks it will be peak. Then two weeks after that - when the Day Lillies are in bloom - the bluegills will begin the spawn.

Joe C.


Fly Fishing Warm Water Rivers is my new book based on nearly two decades of exploring and fishing the flows of the Midwest. [url=http://www.flyfishohio.com:63ce3]www.flyfishohio.com[/url:63ce3] for more information

Excellent info, Cornmuse and beedleach.

In my haste to get back into bluegill fishing, I always seem to forget my frustration from the previoous spring in not catching the bluegills right away.

I’ve never really payed attention to the “order” of things like you mentioned. It’s good to have an idea of what to expect. We went back into a very shallow cove with a muddy bottom and found 6 or 8 bass sitting in maybe a foot or so of water right up against the reeds together. I didn’t see any beds, maybe they were getting ready to start all that?

Oh, and I’m in eastern Washington State. (The desert side, not the “evergreen side”) Just in the last few weeks the daytime temps have been consistently above the mid-sixties. Last week it hit 80-something, and this week it’s in the mid-seventies. Dunno what temp the water is, but I bought a thermometer yesterday to start tracking that.

You should try those bluegills in 8-10 feet of water with a jig type fly under a strike indicator. We catch fish like that a lot before they hit the beds good.

Try Googling for blue gill spawning temperature. I did that recently and came up with a variety of gov’t (various states) and universites that were all over the map for what water temperature sawning starts at. It’s either very regional or somebody’s just making stuff up (none of them that I recall cited sources for their temperature claims).

I’m reading a book now on fishing for large bluegill and I believe it says they start spawning between 65 and 70 or 68 and 70. I can find the exact quote if you want.

Out here, the water temp at a big reservior close to work has water temp of 63 and the crappie are bedding. The bass are reportedly bedding (I haven’t seen them but have read reports of them this week).

So the blue gill should be up soon too,

Thats weird, I catch tons of them no matter what time of year.

Hey Thwack,

I offer this for consideration. As air
temperatures warm and the water temps get up
into the lower 60’s, our bluegills and red
eared sunfish get more active. As they
continue to warm, there comes a time when
the females start producing eggs. I have
no idea at what temperature that might be.
But as they continue to produce eggs and
swell with spawn, the temperatures may
continue to fluctuate. Generally speaking,
this bedding process and laying of eggs will
occur in very close proximity to the full
moon. Meanwhile, the temperatures may have
gone up or down within an acceptable range
that does not stop the process. I suspect
that ALL of the articles you refer to were
correct for the hatch being monitored.G
The spawning will not occur until the eggs
have developed to a certain stage, even if
the water warms more quickly. Warm regards,
Jim

I’m not sure that the spawn is on in SE PA as of yet, but I’m starting to see some craters on the bottom, and last weekend I caught a few real beauties on my little creek. A few were sight catches on a what the heck popper I tried at the last minute. Topwater action in April! Watching those dark shadows come up for the take is like seeing a giant sub just before it surfaces. Loved it - not sure about my heart! LOL
Good Fishing,
Bob

Jim,

Your theory is a lot better than the articles that just claim a temperature range and don’t cite any evidence to back it up. None indicate when it was studied, where, over how many years, etc.

I did dig the temperature range for blue gill out of that book…68 to 70. Pretty narrow range.

I see crappies on beds now and have been told bass are bedding as well. Blue gill tend to spawn shortly after bass, right? I’m hoping the next couple weeks produces some great fishing.

With all those new fry popping out soon, I need to tie some flies that look like them. I figure if we’re matching the hatch I’d better have some freshly hatched panfish flies ready in the near future.

Questions for Garyj147:

Hi Gary, you identified yourself as a
fisheries biologist and I’m wondering if you
might be able to answer a few questions for
us. The object being to determine how best
to judge the occurance of prespawn conditions when the bluegills and red ears
will come shallow prior to bedding. This
is a prime fishing opportunity for those
that hit it right. My question I guess is
whether it is strictly driven by water
temperatures, or moon cycle, or both
combined. Or is there another consideration
being overlooked? I would assume, as I
mentioned above, that whatever the trigger
is that induces the females to produce eggs
is the real key factor. Perhaps the water
temps will continue to fluctuate during the
egg production cycle. It does seem though
that at least in my experience, actual
bedding will “normally” occur in close
proximity to the full moon and that
the water temperatures will normally be in
the 70 degree range. That being the case,
on my waters of Lake Moultrie, in the Santee
Cooper Lake chain in South Carolina, next
week “should” be the magic time for me to
catch some 16 inch red eared sunfish on
flies.G Can you offer any scientific
logic for determining when prespawn occurs?
Any input appreciated. Warm regards, Jim

Jim,

Indeed there are a number of variables that can come into play when trying to determine when certain species of fish spawn. Of course, water temperature is one of the more important factors, but one must remember that “consistent” water temperatures is a key element! If your daytime weather is warm, but night-time temps dip low, the “consistent” water temperature may not be high enough to induce spawning. I’ve seen temp swings of several degrees in the shallow waters that bluegill typically prefer to spawn in with the passage of strong cold fronts and/or cold nights.
Now, other factors that come into play when trying to determine when fish spawn include latitude, photoperiod, and water clarity. Many folks think moon phase plays in this, other folks don’t think that theory holds much water. Personally, I think moon phase affects when the majority of the individuals of several Centrarchid species when spawning. For example, here on Kentucky Lake, my 30-some years of experience with white crappie have me believing the majority of the fish spawn the week of the nearest full moon when “consistent” water temps are at or first go above 56 degrees.
“How does latitude play in fish spawning?” some may ask. Easy enough! Water temperatures reach preferred ranges earlier in more southern climes. Notice I said “ranges”. These ranges appear to vary with latitude, perhaps explaining the discrepancies between researchers on spawning temps noted in an earlier post. Also, in the more northern latitudes, many waterbodies do not EVER reach temperatures that may be found in southern zones. This is where photoperiod may come into play a bit more. Even though water temps may not be at the optimum for the species, because of its actual location in more northern waters, the fish go on and spawn at less than optimum temps because that is the way Mother Nature adapted the fish to ensure their reproductive success along the more extreme northen edges of their native ranges.
Next, allow me to address water clarity for a brief moment. If the water in your local lake is clearer than “normal” during spawning season, you can bet fish such as crappies, bass, bluegills, and redears will spawn in deeper waters. Of course, water clarity is a factor of rainfall, runoff, and wind-induced stirring of sediments. (I’m discounting man mucking in the water with dredging, etc!)

Some additional observations from 30 years of being a “Fish-Head” include the following: Usually, the first Centrarchids to spawn are crappies, followed by smallmouth bass, spotted bass, largemouth bass, redear (very slightly behind largemouth bass), and bluegill. Of these, bluegill will get off several (multiple) spawns, especially in more southern waters, throughout the summer. Typically, the larger individuals of each species spawn first, selecting the best spawning sites. Also, typically with Centrarchids, the males come into the spawning areas first to prepare the nests. Now, crappie are the poorest nest builders, usually making only minimal efforts at fanning beds, if at all. But they don’t need to as their eggs are adhesive, sticking to the roots of flooded bushes (buttonbush here on Kentucky Lake) and other aquatic vegetation. Bass, redear, and bluegill do much better jobs of nest construction, evidenced by the round, saucer depressions everyone is probably familiar with. Finally, in my experience, redears usually spawn deeper than bluegill. So, back off the banks a little more for them than you do for bluegill.
That is probably way more than anyone wanted to know of my opinions on this subject!

Hi Gary,

Not at all my friend. The more info we
can arm outselves with the more liklihood
of success in our respective endeavors. My
current endeavor since my recent retirement
is the pursuit of the red eared sunfish with
the flyrod. I am fortunate that I live on
Lake Moultrie in SC which has produced the
three largest red eared sunfish on record
and the current 5 pound 7 ounce world record
holder. While I have not yet landed one
over 4 pounds, I have had some very very
large red ears do battle on my 3 weight and
they were victorious. While it doesn’t
detract from the experience one whit in my
opinion, I do look forward to capturing a
5 pounder with my camera before patting it
on it’s ample bottom and returning it to
our productive waters.G Thank you so much
for your input. I am convinced that next
week will provide the best opportunity for
large red ears of my season. The cold
snaps kept dropping the water temps and to
date I have found no evidence of them
coming shallow or any fanning in the areas that they have traditionally frequented.
Thanks again! Warm regards, Jim

thanks Gary, valuable information.

The bedding in charlote , nc this year was strange and it was probably because we had a lot of temp swings right in the middle of the process. They were deeper this year and the water is clear in the lake I fish to 4 -6 feet. Outstanding in the piedmont.

Just an interjection of what I observed fishing bluegills Thursday afternoon.

Here near KC, MO the high temps had been consistently in the 70’s for a couple of weeks and the overnight lows were in the mid-upper 50’s (slightly cooler this week). I was on a small lake (4.5 acres, maybe) and noted that the shallow water was what I consider warm. I don’t have a thermometer, so I don’t know actual temp. We have recently had about 3 inches of rain but the water was still clear and warm. The wind was coming from the northwest at 5-10 mph, skies were overcast.

I was casting into the shallowest end of one arm of the lake. The structure of the arm is shallow from 0-3 ft to about 5 yards out, cattails grow on the shallowest bank and there’s moss floating in clumps about 12 inches around. Below the surface the bottom is covered with organic material and differing types of moss.

I waded out 3 ft from the shore and was casting between clumps of moss near the cattails. I used tan/yellow dry flies left to sit still on the surface to a count of 10 seconds before moving it (not very often). Also with assorted nymphs and a blue & brown woolly worm (all hook size 8), stripping back slowly about 3 ft at a time (again, not very often). Most often the line would only move 8-15 inches and the line would tighten after a noticable swirl, then quickly swing right or left then head for moss or deep water. Sometimes the strike would be almost vicious, and setting the hook was often unneccesary. Very few strikes were missed or lost.

The gills caught numbered about 30 over a 3 hour time frame and out of these I took only 1 that I could guess was a female (colored lighter than others, no orange or blue), and it was taken in 4-6 ft deep water. All of the males were between 4-8 inches long, most with a very orange belly and blue-ish face and one or two with a very distinct blue face.

When I arrived about 3:30 pm I was alone. At one point I was catching a fish on every cast, when I began to enjoy these odds my fly was smashed by what felt like one of the larger gills. This fish was able to take my fly and tippet under a 1 inch diameter stick under the surface and left the fly imbedded in it as he swam away. I thought of wading over to un"stick" my fly, but decided to break off for fear of disturbing the beds.

A small group of people came out at about 5 pm and they fished the deep end of the lake away from me. I heard one of the kids get a bluegill and another individual was able to get a small bass, but they were fairly unsuccessful otherwise. I continued to fish until around 6 pm and only left so I could get home for supper and time for the family.

I’m planning to get back out to this lake next week and we’ll see what the gills are up to then. I’ve fished this lake since last Summer and these were the largest gills I’ve seen. I’m sure they were there last year, I just didn’t get into the spawn time.


There’s almost nothin’ wrong with the first lie, it’s the weight of all the others holdin’ it up that gets ya’! - Tim

Hey Moe,

Sounds like a great afternoon. I hope
my knee will be up to snuff in a few days so
I can get back to chasing and maybe do a bit
of catching.G Warm regards, Jim

Hay Dog, Just a word to a fellow local. We slammed the gills saturday at Stan Coffin, off of Rd 5 behind the Quincy golf course. Caught em all day on the popper of your choice. They were in from 1-5 ft of water at the nw corner of the lake. Also caught a nice little (15") bass and a plate sized crappie on same litte green frog popper I was using for bluegill. We gotta hook up dude. I would love to start fishing O’Sullivan more.


Cary Morlan

Living my dreams one day at a time

Cary,

Which end is the northwest end? Is that where the road passes next to the lake?

Were you fishing from a pontoon boat on saturday? I was there with my wife and a couple friends most of the day saturday. I think we got there at around noon, left in the evening. My friend and I were in float tubes, the wives were trolling in a small aluminum boat.

I was catching some small bluegill down where the lake narrows on small nymphs. Didn’t see anything of size, though. Saw lots of good size bass, though, and what I think were a couple of catfish. The ladies were trolling with 5" grubs on ultralight spinning rods. They ended up catching some decent bass.

I have fridays off, so send me an email at atomicdoggie at gmail.com if you want to do some fishing around here.

as an update to my original post, I hit this lake again on sunday morning. A cold front had come in and it was cloudy, windy and cooler than it had been and some rain came through as well. I don’t know if this had any effect on things or not. The water temp was at 65 to 66 degrees according to my thermometer. Still didn’t see any gills roaming around. When I checked one of the shallow bedding spots I did find a couple big gills hanging out. I’m guessing they are early arrivals, maybe males preparing beds? Didn’t see any gills anywhere else in the lake, shallows or otherwise.

After a good skunking, we decided to pull out the spinning reels for a bit. (blasphemy, I know!) We were in a large cove, maybe an acre in size. Rigged with soft plastic baits we started catching bass on nearly every cast. They ranged from 12 to 17 inches. What a hoot on unlralight setups! Didn’t seem to matter where in the cove we were at we never went more than a couple casts over the course of two hours without at least getting a bite. I need to try and put together a fly that mimics these pastic baits somewhat.

If the sun stays out all week I suspect the bluegills will be getting up in the shallows pretty soon.

Oh yeah, you folks are giving some outstanding info in this thread. It’s fascinating to read through, thanks!