The Art of Casting vs. Iron James

FAOL Community Fly Anglers Online
1

JC’s fine article this week captures both the prose and the poetry of the fly casting stroke. He pulls it all together in these words:

“I have gotten to know a few of the world champion fly casters and am always struck by the differences in their style. I would think that to make casts like they do, they would be rather similar. The only points they share are, ‘it stops here and it stops there;’ the rest is style I guess.”

Now I want to pull it apart. Part A is the prose, the fundamental elements that every good stroke should have. Part B is the poetry, the way an individual executes to achieve the fundamentals. I think an Iron James would go a long way in helping me identify the fundamentals.

Who is Iron James? He is Iron Byron’s brother. For a long time now the Golf World has has a robot, AKA Iron Byron, which closely mimicks Byron Nelson’s legendary sweet stroke. It takes a lot of the mystery out of the stroke by defining what it should be. Of course few pros look like Iron Byron. As a boy, I followed Snead around for 18 holes. He had that sweet stroke. Palmer’s broad stance and short quick stroke was not a model I would imitate. Forget about Trevino and Thorpe and the way they jab at the ball - too many bad habits. Woods’s stroke is more classical. I think that the pros were successful to the extent that there swing resembled or was the same as Iron Byron’s.

That is where Iron James (Castwell) comes in. For the sake of science and to get the pure image into our heads we need to have a robot who can perform the perfect fly stroke over and over again. Skeptics will say it cannot be done, just as they told Wilbur and Orville that man was not meant to fly.

Why hasn’t Iron James been created yet? As we all know, fly casting is a skill several orders higher than striking a motionless golf ball. It involves a far more complex co-ordination of left and right hand mechanics. Our computer science is just getting to a point where this can be achieved.

If Wilson, Spaulding, MacGregor, and Nike can have their Iron Byron, it is only amatter of time before Orvis, Loomis, Sage, Fenwick, Cortland, and Elkhorn bring Iron James to birth. Till then I will hold that the sweet fly stroke is a product of perfect mechanics and unwavering motivation (body and soul). The best casters embody enough of that sweet stroke and that sweet attitude that they stand head and shoulders above me. I think videos like the once by Tom White and Joan Wolf are just what the doctor ordered.

2

I have seen references to at least two fly casting machines.

One is here:

http://www.asme.org/NewsPublicPolicy/Ne … Hooked.cfm

I don’t remember where I saw the article on the other one. The article had something to do with testing rods with it.

3

Thanks. This marks step 2 of my quest.

It may get harder as I expect objections to surface. This is the story of John Henry-man vs machine- written in a different language. Ludites arise!

4

When I watch “The Movie”, it always strikes me that the boys and their dad would hit the river and start casting the minute their feet hit the water. The rod, reel and line was like an extension of their body, peering at the water and the fish, paying no attention what so ever to the mechanics of the equipment or the motion. Now to me, that is sucess and breeching the hill of casting perfection. I am sure JC has that same sensation when using his equipment…it only makes perfect sense to me. (Of course, after reading Neil Travis’ accounts this week with he and JC, I am sure neither would pell mell themselves into the water alah Brad Pitt.) Still the extension of body is my reason for comparision.

5

“The rod, reel and line was like an extension of their body, peering at the water and the fish, paying no attention what so ever to the mechanics of the equipment or the motion. Now to me, that is sucess and breeching the hill of casting perfection.”

Well, it was a movie. The hours of practice with the reverend clapping time were implied though not included in the final cut. I saw them as little kids making awkward short casts. I saw dad clapping time to imply he taught them to cast with the same disciplined approach that he used to teach them how to write. Otherwise, how did they learn? We both saw the pay off moment for the young men when casting was second nature as a result a lot of time practicing in the back yard and on the water. Of course, neither you nor I saw them paying attention to mechanics because we can’t see attention or lack thereof-only the results.

When a soloist plays a piece on the violin from memory, I believe he pays attention to the score and mechanics even tho the sheet music is nowhere to be seen and he is not mumbling a series of bowing and fingering instructions. I admit a few musicians may have made it to Carnegie Hall as a result of a mystic sixth sense for their instrument. The rest practiced.

That is what I will do till fly casting becomes second nature. Meditate on that. But do not expect meditation to do diddle for your casting stroke.

6

I am not a great caster. BUT the best days I have ever had fishing were those days when casting just “happened”. In the zone? Zen? You tell me. But when it happens it is pure magic. Every cast just becomes an extension of my eye.
Now I know my limits, and I know what I can’t do, so I usually try not to push too hard on the envelope. I haven’t become super caster. But when it becomes just me and the fishin’ and the rod just takes care of itself, well that is just as good as it gets.
AgMD

7

AgMD

If that MD means what it usually does, I am sure that, besides having your patients feel good (in the zone), you are also interested in what makes them feel good (how to get them in the zone). I hope you do not think it is some quintessential thing that can only be recognized with a sixth sense.

I do not think we are far apart here because I call being in the zone the payoff moment. Practice, knowledge, motivation, muscles, nerves, motion, and every detail down to what you had for breakfast and how you tied your shoes all come together just right. Michael Jordan had them on the court. Rick Clunn has them on the lake. Doctors like yourself, I hope, have them in the office. As an engineer I have them in the plant. To use fishing as an example, one comes when you land the fish and you realize that everything up till now is summarized nicely in that fish - bullhead or brown trout.

Your reference to Zen is perfect because Zen Budhism is very down to earth from what I can see. It involves extensive study of Budhist doctrine, daily meditation, and a disciplined community life in which the most senior monks get the most menial jobs. It’s work.

Zen moments are not trances involving visions of other worldly reality. The goal is not to see some other world; it is to see the depth of reality in the world at hand and fully appreciate it. From what I read that takes a while. The Zen irony seems to be that the everyday world that we thought we knew surprises us with its depth if we train ourselves to see it. We sink the long put. We make a flawless cast. It is a pleasant overwhelming surprise.

That is why I have been fighting the thought that the components of fly casting include mystical undefineable elements possessed only by the gifted or sensed only by entering an other-worldly zone. It is all right here if we take the time to look for it. Iron James can help.

8

Bear742…check his profile…

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Bear 742,
I think you are right on, except for my doctorate.
Ag is the symbol for silver, which I have spent all of my professional life turning into gold. ( If you don’t believe it can be done you should see what my prints sell for :lol: ) The doctorate is self anointed. Hence I am “the Silver Doctor”.
Modern man likes to think we we are so clever with things like muscle memory, mentally performing a skill, etc. Not surprising the ancients were working on the same things. Just goes to show – there is nothing truly new under the sun.
AgMD

10

“Modern man likes to think we we are so clever with things like muscle memory, mentally performing a skill, etc. Not surprising the ancients were working on the same things. Just goes to show – there is nothing truly new under the sun.
AgMD”

:smiley: I wish this site had a thumbs up emoticon.

Of course, being one of those ancients, how could I disagree? :wink:

Modern man = ?
Hucksters started calling there wares modern before 1900, good marketing. It is too hard to date the critter.

Likewise, does modern fly fishing start when Tonkin Cane, Varnished Silk Line, and Silkworm gut leaders replaced Greenheart, Woven Horsehair lines, and single strand Horsehair leaders? Or do we have to wait for Graphite Rods, WFxF Synthetic Lines, and Furled Nylon Leaders?

If that is not enough precision, I have already copywrited the labels required to break down the Graphite Era-Paleographite, Mesographite, Neographite, and Postgraphite Wonderstuff. :twisted:

I can’t wait to hear the answer. Nice chatting with you.

11

The day I have to cast “properly”, like some machine, is the day I hang up my rods and take up some sport where you can go out and enjoy yourself and to #### with right and proper techniques. No two of us cast alike, and no two of us ever will, I hope.

I very seldom pay any attention to my casting stroke, and unless I am helping out someone who is brand new, I don’t pay any attention to anyone else’s, either. I certainly don’t try to imitate someone “great”.

OK rant over.

DG

12

“Modern” is a relative concept not an absolute one. Each age thinks of itself as an improvement over the previous one and by some measures it is. My grandfather was born to a world of the steam engine and lance wood rods and we live in a world of the Internet and 60 gazillion modulus graphite. Advancement? Certainly. Improvement? That is a value judgement. What do you value? The feel of bamboo or the feel of graphite. Which is more fun, a hammerlock black powder or the latest synthetic stocked tack driver.
If our age is an improved one, it is because we have more choices.
I know a guy who works oxen. 3,000 year old technology . He loves it.
AgMD

13

DG, your rant is invalid because: you CAN cast.
It’s only a problem to those who can’t. :lol:

14

I figured the man vs. machine issue would come up. It is John Henry vs. the Steam Engine. Ironically, Bruce Springstein recently covered “John Henry” on his Seeger album. Sometimes Pete did it accompanied by an acoustic guitar that he played himself. Bruce’s version is backed by a dozen or so musicians and singers electronically enhanced and mixed. There’s an interesting example of new and old doing the same thing.

Now draw a parellel with fishing gear. What would the sledgehammer’s equivalent be? Greenheart? What would the steam engine’s be? Graphite? Who taught John Henry how to swing hitting the iron ever’ time and never touchin’ the shaker? Did it come natural, or did John Henry have to practice? We will never know for sure?

If all styles of casting are equally good, there are no casting errors, right?

15

Interesting topic, I had a parrallel debate with a casting instructor/guide on another forum, whose position was that anyone could cast as far as Rajeff,Arden,Wilson and co with practice.

But to my mind he was downplaying the special talents these guys possess to reach that level and perform thos exceptional casts. Certainly there are a range of technicalities all casts should have, but how an individual strings those together, together with body movement, posture, grace, they are strung together is the “art”

Ive been lucky enough to be in and around elite sport in a few areas and and I find those indefinables which seperate mortals, like myself, from the truly great, fascinating and even for us as lower levels of performance we can learn from them to make ourselves better.

We all hear of the mythical greats who can pick up a new endeavour and perform exceptionally. But perhaps its just that they can achieve mortal levels easily, but getting to be one of the elite takes high level practice and lots of it.
That requires a certain level of obsession/single mindedness to do that work which certainly sets the elite apart.
Confidence in their abilities, to perform against adversity/setbacks (wind/tangles), and to perform that in front of an audience is another defining characteristic, whether its innate or proven over time through practice and performance.

There is an ad on TV currently, referring to the NFL, which uses the line that professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong. Its the fundamental of all elite performance from sport to the military. So that in times of physical and mental stress, certain actions become natural.

For me the Zen, the lifting of performance to a higher place, was always the harmony of mind, body and skills _ confidence was high, i’d been doing the fundamentals long and well enough I didn’t have to think, I was able to do things in my game I still look back and wonder “how did I do that”.
Perhaps the truly elite would merely accept it as natural, Im not sure

So how does this apply to us mug casters. :o

If you look at the range performance of all fly casters from newbies to experts there the majority would be stacked at the lower end. In golfing parlance most wouldn’t break 100 and might be 120s

The simple fact is due to circumstance/time/availablity of water/family commitments most just don’t practice enough to reach very far up that skill graph. The fly cast remains unnatural, tricky, they are casting just “to get it right” in the words of that same advertisement

The kicker here is THEY DON’T NEED TO, to HAVE FUN and enjoy the experience of fly fishing. They are happy in their own experience. And if your fly fish your kin to me.

General trout fishing in much of this country isn’t very demanding in terms of casting. Better casting does allow fishing on more windy days, or picking up a more difficult fish, or more ease in mending etc etc but more enjoyment? _ perhaps perhaps not.

For some of us there is a joy in casting and casting well, for others their nirvana is found in other areas.

We are still all fly fishers.

chEERS STEVE

16

Awsome Steve! You put everything into perspective.

Take a look at the old saying,“A job worth doing is worth doing well.” If we applied that strictly, we would not have a lot of amateur sports activity because most amateurs don’t do it well. They hope to, but they enjoy the sport anyway. So it is also true, “A job worth doing is worth doing badly.”

I want to think that is where Iron James comes in. He is not the goal; he is just a tool to help us get better. Either way we are gonna fish.

17

fluy fishing is just worth doing :smiley: