Tell Me about Lacquer

Flies I tie for fishing, I rarely use head cement. But seeing the beautiful, glossy heads on traditional flies has made me envious. I know it starts with the thread of the head, but what goes next? I’ve used a couple coats of regular, thin head cement. Then a coat or two of high gloss nail polish, like Sally Hansen, but it is so thick, it is hard to keep it from bleeding into the feathers and over the eye.
None of the fly shops here carry a black lacquer, which I’ve seen people refer to.
Your experience and wisdom is requested :wink:

Rex

look for black fingernail polish - I’ve also seen flies with red heads too.

The lacquer that gives that ultra high sheen on those flies is probably Cellire. This is available on our side of the pond from good tackle shops and comes in three viscosities, light, medium and heavy.

Gives a beautiful finish and total coverage of the thread on the head.

Cheapskates like me buy the heavy and thin some of it down for lighter work!

I use two or three different products to get super shiny heads on my fancy wets but the first step is always 2 coats of Griff’s Thin Head Cement. That is followed by a quality thicker head cement like Griff’s Thick, ProLak, Rumpf or any other solvent based product.

Once all of the thread wraps are filled and invisible, a final coat of Black ProLak makes 'em shine, fills and hides any imperfections.

You can get the Black ProLak and Griff’s Thin from Chris Helm at Whitetail Fly Tying.

This is STRICTLY a show fly head prep, not something I do for fishing flies.

No matter what route you go to get super perfect heads, you need to have thinner of some type at your disposal for the head cement, even Sally Hansen’s. Due to evaporation it all gets TOO thick over time and needs to be thinned to flow properly.

response from another board

The most important thing to remember is to make sure you get a nice smooth bed of thread underneath the head cement. I always untwist my thread before I wrap the head.

After the whip finish (by hand; that way I can more accurately place the wraps), I apply a generous coat of Griff’s Thin Cement and let it dry. This seals the thread so that subsequent coats ride on the surface rather than sink in.

Next come two coats of Griff’s Thick Cement. Apply thick cement sparingly, or when it dries it’ll pucker on you.

By the time the third coat is dry, the head should be looking pretty smooth. The final coat is a layer of black lacquer or black nail polish.

I use a very sharp bodkin to apply all four coats, one small bead of cement at a time.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that this is essentially Don Bastian’s head-cement routine. The only difference is that he uses E. Hille’s clear cement for his third coat and Pro Lak for his fourth.

I have three bottles of Sally Hansen–Hard as Nails. Stop light red ,Black magic and Clear. Your problem may be that you dont wipe the exsess on the side of the bottle. Some cut off half of the brush. Never had a problem,one coat of black stick on eye if needed then a coat of clear. The shine comes with the clear. BILL

Thanks for all the tips. I’ll keep working on it and let you know how it goes!
Rex

All good advice, one point ‘AC’ did not mention,
Cellire comes in red and black as well as clear,
it marketed by Veniard.
I am sure there are US brands as good.

Those two are both in colour.
I’m buying from US and UK, so why can’t you :wink:

http://www.sportfish.co.uk/product/34110/Veniards_Varnish_%2815ml%29.html
http://www.carrilon.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=69_70&products_id=713

Rex,

You can go to all that trouble to get several different ‘fly tying’ products, and apply them to your fly heads.

Or, you can go to the hardware store and buy a can of lacquer.

Plain old clear gloss lacquer. A quart runs between 10 and 12 bucks. You’ll also need a can of lacquer thinner.

Thin it down up to 50% for a fast penetrating head cement. Use ‘as is’ for a thicker coating.

To get a nice glossy head, all you need to do is apply several coats. Use a bodkin to apply to small heads, a small artist’s brush for the larger ones.

The thin stuff dries fast (like right now, if you say ‘is it dry?’, it’s dry). If I want a high gloss head, I’ll tie a dozen or so flies, applying a drop of the thinned down ‘head cement’ as each is finished. After all the flies are done, I’ll go back and apply a second coat of unthinned lacquer. After that application, I’ll go back to the first fly and apply the third coat (yes, it will be dry by then). If you build reasonably smooth thread heads, three coats is all you need. If you get sloppy like do at times, then a fourth coat fixes it. If I’m going to paint on eyes, I do that on top of the third coat, then finish with a fourth coat of the clear.

If I want a black head, I use black thread, etc.

If you want ‘colored’ lacquer Jann’s Netcraft sells it. either separately, or in a kit of several colors, in their lure making section. A 2 ounce bottle will make thousands of eyes or colored heads. It’s not expensive. Sometimes you can find colored lacquer at a paint store…then it’s ‘cheap’.

If you want a ‘one step’ high gloss head, then go to epoxy. DevCon 2-ton makes a clear, hard, glossy head in one application. It’s non reactive, so you can put it over any other finish.

Good Luck!

Buddy

I must admit, I’ve been gently prodded into using Cellire also. Great product, beautiful heads. I get it from the Irish Angler here in WA. http://www.nwsalmonflyguild.org/ia/ia_shop/contents/en-us/d81.html

REE

Actually, I use gloss black enamel. You can get it anywhere they sell plastic models (Wal-Mart, etc…). The two brands I use are Pactra and Testor. Pactra is my favorite, but they don’t always have it. Pactra dries faster and seems to be thicker out of the bottle. I apply it with a Bodkin or toothpick.

You can get Black Lacquer in the paint dept. at Wal-Mart, but it only comes in 16 oz. cans…ridiculous for fly tying. That would be a several lifetimes supply.

Rex…for most flies I just add a coat or two of Sally’s Hard As Nails. If I am making a streamer and want to add a nice glossy head…I add Sally’s…a couple of coats, paint eyes, then I top off with Loon’s Hard Head. After I add a coat of nail polish, I put the fly on the turner. After the polish or paint is good and dry…I use acrylic paint by the way for the eyes…then I add two coats of Loon’s Hard Head that has been thinned. Between each coat I let dry. This is several hours between coats now. So this is very time consuming. If I want a black head, I use black thread. If I want a red head…I can either use white or red thread, and coat with red nail polish. This works for me. I hate epoxy. I have not tried other types of lacquer…but some of the ones I’ve heard here sound good. All I know is what I use works for me…so I probably will just stick with that. Oh. I also thin the Hard Head 50% with alcohol.

Buddy, you’re going to have to tell me where this hardware store is. I can’t find clear or black lacquer anywhere, even on-line. I guess Chris Helm has Pro-Lak which is great, I didn’t know he had it. But a quart of lacquer would even be better. Where do you get this stuff? All I can find are spray cans.
Eric

You can get Opex Gloss Black Lacquer, by Sherwin-Williams, at almost any Sherwin-Williams paint store. Our Wal-Mart even has it.

For clear gloss laquer, you can order Permalac at: http://www.permalac.com/products.asp. It comes in 1-quart jars for brush applications.

I use gloss black enamel on my streamer heads.

I’ve looked at Wal-Mart many times, maybe not in the right section. Appreciate the help.
Eric

"You can get Opex Gloss Black Lacquer, by Sherwin-Williams, at almost any Sherwin-Williams paint store. Our Wal-Mart even has it.

For clear gloss laquer, you can order Permalac at: http://www.permalac.com/products.asp. It comes in 1-quart jars for brush applications"

If you cant find it any where else you aught to be able to find it at an auto paint supply or an auto body shop could probably order some for you.

A traditional “quick dry” thin coat prior to your finish coat try bulls-eye shellac straight out of the can, it can be thinned with alcohol.

What’s the thinner for Cellaire?

Cellaire is nice but takes a while to dry.

If you use nail polish, the first step is find someone to do your shopping for you, and the second step is cut down the brush to 3-5 hairs.

Cellire also supply cans of thinners here in the UK.
I am sure if you contact that source Ron EE
mentioned they can advise you.
The Royal Mail can be very negative about
inflammable liquids in the post.

Eaustin,

What I have is Parks brand Clear Gloss Lacquer. I found it at my local ACE Hardware in the wood finish section. WalMart used to carry a Deft product they called ‘fast dry wood finish’ that was the same stuff. I don’t know if they still have it.

One of the big problems with something like buying a quart of lacquer for head cement is that it lasts a LONG time. I bought mine, I think, seven or eight YEARS ago. I still have well over half of it left, and I use it a lot…Only reason I bought this can is that I used the old ‘Deft’ brand one up sealing and finishing some woodwork. Brands, packaging, merchandizing, store stocks all change over time.

Clear lacquers are almost always found in with the wood finishes. Sometimes it won’t say ‘lacquer’ boldly on the lable, you may have to look closely. Often they use terms like ‘fast dry’ or ‘instant cure’ type descriptions, but you will see ‘lacquer’ someplace on the can, hopefully.

I usually find the colored lacquers where they have touch up or trim paints and usually at a ‘specific brand’ paint shop. I bought my black and red at an auto paint store (it’s closed now). They were nice enough to separate out a half pint of each for me from a larger container. Don’t know the brand on these. It wasn’t ‘cheap’, I think I paid about $4 each for them, but they have gone a LONG way (bought them around the same time as the clear stuff, stil have well over half of it).

One of the best features of plain old lacquer is that it dries so quickly. The ability to thin it significantly, and to re thin it as needed, without hurting it’s properties, is also a plus.

The big draw back for most folks is that you buy it in Quarts. That’s a lot of ‘head cement’ and it doesn’t come in a little bottle with an easy applicator built in. You have to expend some time and iniative finding a small bottle (I used an airbrush paint bottle-craft stores sell them) and made an applicator for it by pusing a large hat pin through an appropriately size cork stopper (cork stoppers are available at my ACE Hardware). I separated the colored lacquers into used Testor Enamel bottles.

Some folks worry about the fumes from the solvents. Lacquer smells. But in the small quantities we use, it’s not overpowering or dangerous. I don’t even notice the ‘smell’ when using it just for fly heads. I’d not paint a door with it in a hermetically sealed space unless I could open a window or turn on a vent fan.

Lacquers were a ‘traditional’ head cement, but they still offer advantages today. I like being able to put several coats on a head in just a few minutes. I like not having to worry if I need to move a fly whether or not the head cement isn’t dry and it will ‘stick’ to something. I like being able to thin it to differing viscosities to suit my requirements.

Add in the fact that it is very cost effective, and it’s a win-win situation.

Buddy