Tapered leader without tippet?

Does anyone do this? I know the leaders are more expensive but it just seems like the tippet isn’t necessary. Anyone?

Byron

Byron,

When you buy a ‘tapered leader’ only the last foot or so is the ‘tippet diameter’. The rest gets thicker as it gets closer to the fly line, thus the apellation ‘tapered’.

As you tie on flies, change flies, etc. during a day of fishing, you ‘use up’ that thinner portion. Eventually, the leader gets too thick for the presentation desired. THAT’s what ‘tippet material’ is for. You add it on to the tapered leader, so that when you are ‘using up’ the material, you aren’t using it from the leader itself, but from the level tippet section you have added.

If you do this, your tapered leader can last several seasons.

However, if you don’t care about that, you can always just tie your flies directly to your leader, and replace it when it gets too thick or short.

I know many fly fishermen who will start out tying their flies directly to the leader, then add tippet only after they ‘use up’ the level tippet section.

I’m cheap, so if I’m using a store bought tapered leader, I always start out with a couple of feet of tippet tied to it. That way, the only time I ‘use up’ leader length is when I have to add new tippet material. That may occur once every other fishing day, while changing flies can occur many times each day. This makes my leaders last longer. As I’ve said, I’m cheap.

Buddy

Thanks for the reply. I should fess up that I am tortured by trying to tie the bloodknot. I just successfully tied one, or at least I hope it was a success. I’m sure there’s got to be an easy way to do this. Maybe as time goes by I’ll get better at it. I looked at mine under a magnifying glass and it “looks” good. Only time will tell.

Byron

The amount of tippet built into a premade tapered leader can vary. On some leaders for trout this can be 3 or 4 feet long. On heavier leaders often sold as “Bass” leaders it may only be a foot.

I use a loop to loop connection to joint tippet and leader in a lot of situations. If using a pre-made tapered leader, once the built in tippet is used up, I tie a non-slip mono loop knot in the end. To add tippet, I take some tippet material ( or regular mono fishing line), tie a non-slip mono loop knot in one end , and loop it to the loop in in the leader. On many of my panfish and bass rigs, I just use one leader all year, since with the loop to loop system I don’t have to cut the leader back to add more tippet, though I may need to shorten it a little at a time to replace the loop knot if it gets damaged.

If joining tippet material to a leader without loop knots, I use the double or triple surgeons knot. It is much easier to tie and stronger than a blood knot.

I use single piece level mono leaders for a lot of subsurface work, especially with sink tip and sinking lines. Very inexpensive, especially since I get it from the bulk spools that I fill my spinning and baitcasing reels with.

Byron,

You should learn the blood knot…you can use it when you have time …but out on the water you may find a double surgeons knot …is easier… faster & strong if done properly…plus it’s more friendly when joining materials of greater size differences or even softness’s…is that a word?

As far as tapered leaders goes…pretty much as Buddy said.
Here’s how I do it…let’s say I want to use 3/0 tippet …I’ll buy a 2/0 leader and add the 3/0…so when I get down close or to the knot I know that’s where the 2/0 is…that way I always know the size at the end of the leader.If I buy 3/0 and add 3/0 it doesn’t make sense to me in most cases…plus I can add more 3/0.

Just pick your #'s. You do need to also factor in length.

Remember we’re in the Warmwater Forum here guys. No tapered leader required.

But if you really want, what you can do is have a butt section of 20# line, maybe 30 inches.
To that tie three feet of 10# test. For those of you who are blood knot challenged, tie a surgeon’s knot. Now you can fish bass flies right there.
OR
Tie on another couple of feet of 8# test. Fine for bass and large bream.
OR
Tie on yet another couple of feet of 6# test. That’s at fine as you’ll ever need to go.

OR

Forget the 10# test and go right to 5 feet of 8# test and use just that. If you do the popper dropper, your popper is at the end of the 8# test and your dropper is on another 18 inches of 6#.

For the 6# I usually use Vanish.

Byron,

While I diagree that a surgeons knot is stronger than a blood knot, it is easier to tie and will work just fine.

However, learning to tie good knots, and certainly knowing the more popular ones well, is part of the sport and something you should spend some time on. You can find information all over the web about different knots.

If you are going to be fishing mainly warmwater, you will need a good loop knot. Either what they call the ‘non slip’ or the ‘Rapala’ knot are good. Most topwater flies, clousers, and any fly you want to move freely will benefit from being tied on with a loop knot. This is especially true with tippets above around four pound test.

For attaching the tippet to the fly without a loop, you have lots of options. Many folks use a clinch or improved clinch. The Trilene is similar, but stronger. The Palomar is MUCH stronger, but uses up a lot of tippet to tie, thus not as popular with fly fishermen (it’s what I now use when I’m not using a loop knot, but I’m always looking for a better knot).

The North American Fishing Club (I’m not a member, but I like this part) has been doing a ‘knot wars’ thing on both their website and their TV show…you can find it at fishingclub.com…it is pretty interesting to see, plus they show how to tie the knots as well as how they stack up in head to head competition with other knots.

Most of us don’t do this, but we shoud: get a simple scale and ‘test’ your knots. Sometimes you will learn that although a knot is reputed to be ‘strong’ it won’t be for you (we all do things differently, even when we try to ‘copy’ something).

Knots are important if you find losing fish to your own error frustrating. I do know guys who really don’t care all that much since they are going to let the fish go anyway. Up to you.

Buddy

I just tie a “No Knot Fas-Snap” to the end of the (store-bought) tapered leader. I can switch flies easily without having to cut-and-tie as often. I just cut and re-tie when the line gets abraded…or re-tie when I lose a fly due to line breakage because of a fish or snag.

By the time I use up the non-tapered portion of the leader, I either replace the leader because its full of wind knots (I’m sure this only happens to me), or I will then tie on tippet material if the leader is still in good condition.

"Does anyone do this? "

Hi Byron,

Yes I do, frequently but not exclusively.

Best, Dave

I tend to just use a straight length of 4 or 6 lb line.
I am really cheap and lazy.

Rick

I always start each day with a new tapered mono leader. I think of it as cheap insurance against loosing a nice fish.

I also always use tippet, to be exact, Rio Fluoroflex Plus fluorocarbon tippet, even on a new leader. Every guide I have fish with the past two years has also started using fluorocarbon tippet, even when fishing dries. The use of the fluorocarbon decreases the chance of the fish seeing the tippet.

I use the Cinch Tie Knot Tyer tool to tie an Improved Surgeons knot to tie my tippet to my leader. It is quick and easy to use. As you can see down below, there are a number of knots you can tie with this tool, but I carry it with me all the time just to tie what I call the Triple Improved Surgeons knot. I twist the loop three times to strengthen then knot rather than the suggested two times.

The Cinch Tie Knot Tyer will tie the follow knots with ease:

Rapala Knot
Clinch Knot
Nail Knot
Trilene Knot
Double Clinch Knot
Grip Knot
Hook Snell
Hook Snell by Hand
Improved Clinch Knots
Improved Surgeons Knot
Spider Hitch
Blood Snell Knot
Bobber Knot 1
Bobber Knot 2

Check it out at the below website. Orvis and Cabela’s sell a version of the Cinch Knot Tyer.

http://www.cinchtie.com/Cinch_tie_knot_tyer.htm

Larry :smiley: —sagefisher—

Byron,

I would like to echo most of what Buddy says, and add some of my own commentary.

I was in the same boat with you as I learned those knots, but Buddy is right…you really need to know how to tie them. I bought a bunch of butt material and tippets to build my own smallmouth leaders, and after building my first one (Harry Murray’s recipe) I had the knots down pretty good.

If you are going to be fishing mainly warmwater, you will need a good loop knot. Either what they call the ‘non slip’ or the ‘Rapala’ knot are good. Most topwater flies, clousers, and any fly you want to move freely will benefit from being tied on with a loop knot. This is especially true with tippets above around four pound test.

Again, very true. The ‘Rapala’ knot is what I use when I spin fish from time to time, and it gives flies great action.

Thanks guys for all the great advice. I think I should indeed just learn to tie the knots instead of finding ways around them.

Byron

Byron,

For a newby, don’t let the knots get you frustrated. Pick a couple of knots for a stated purpose and then use them until you’re dissatisfied…no sweat.

You don’t "have " to do the Blood knot. A nice and suitable/acceptable choice is a Double Uni knot…if you want it to approximate the Blood. Google it and you’ll find it’s easy and strong.

Another simple and strong knot is a Triple Surgeons…really simple and strong.

Keep it uncomplicated. Lots of choices.

Jeremy.

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/
is currently selling Reddington and Scientific Anglers 9 foot tapered leaders in 0x and 2x for 75 cents each.
These work great for bass without a tippet and with a tippet for anything.

I would agree with Jeremy. You only need to know a handfull to get started. Attaching lines, loops, and attaching flies dry and wet. For some reason I have a devil of a time with the blood knot, so I use either the triple surgeons, or better yet so far the figure eight knot for tippet to leader. When properly tied I have not had a failure with either, but I prefer the figure 8 as I think it goes thru the guides better and has less of a profile. Master a few and build your arsenal of knots from there. Have fun!

I would use the Uni-Uni for tippet. There is also the Nail-Nail if you have a gadget for tying it.

But wait. An interesting article in F&S gives top billing to the J Knot. In their tests it broke at 67% of the line test while the Surgeon’s came in at 63%. The J is not much harder to tie than the Surgeon’s.

I agree with everything said before but feel I need to add this. Learn to tie just a few ‘basic’ knots to use when fishing and get out there. During the days you can’t get out use ‘big’ line and practice tying other knots. There are tons of places (like here) that have ‘How-to’ sections that show you how to tie different knots. But if you haven’t had a problem with your set-up why change. I do what works for me, just because it’s not the textbook way to do something doesn’t mean it won’t work.

I’m also cheap and buy spools of different weight line and tie my own leaders. I just bought a spool of 6# test (700 yards) for $2.89. If I make 6 foot leaders with a loop at one end that means I’ll get about 350 leaders out of this spool. Cost, about 1 cent each. Time to make less than a minute. And if I need to add tippet to the end in the field I use a Surgeon’s knot. I’ve never had this set-up fail at the knot.

Don’t be afraid to try another knot. The figure 8 works well for me to attach tippet line, just be careful to wet and draw the knot well so it doesn’t slip, and a the good old reliable surgeons works as well. I like the thinner profile of the figure 8. Buddy’s suggestion sounds good as well to prolong leader life.

I HIGHLY recommend the Davy knot to tie your flies to the tippet. Fast, easy and it holds better than any other I’ve tried. I can tie a new fly on in seconds with the Davy knot.

JR