So just an ole man’s question for you : Do you think a fly line itself has to be tapered or can the same result be had by the leader you attach to the end of a level fly line? Got any thoughts after you think about it?
I guess the answer depends on many factors of which I’ll state one:
Distance you expect to cast.
Now others can chime in.
Allan
Have you ever thrown a level line? Howabout a shooting head with Amnesia and LC13 (although strickly speaking, a shooting head rig has an abrupt taper)? Sure they can both be cast, but neither would be my first choice for most applications.
Wind resistance
Just for discussion here… I don’t see the relationship to distance or wind resistance. I am looking at a fly line as just a level line weight specific to a rod with a tapered plastic coating that slows the velocity down and presents a fly more gently and think you can do it with a leader. My own thought is that I can control a kick at the end of a level line with a leader rather than fighting a long taper or stub taper for complicated casts, esp. right and left curves. This question is in my mind is only… why it is necessary to have the expensive fly line with a 4 to 5 foot taper or whatever taper length when we can choke the fly line speed down via the leader of our choice or in some cases speed it up.
If you have the skill to do it, then you can. Lefty Kreh can cast a line well with his bare hands; I need all the help that the fly line manufacturers can give me if I want to present a fly with any delicacy.
Regards,
Scott
Years ago, and it might very well be the same today, manufacturers made double taper, weight forward and level line. The level being the least expensive. However, what you gained in saving a few bucks, you lost in casting performance and presentation. At least that was my experience. When I got my first fly rod at 15 I went down to the hardware store and bought some level fly line and had all sorts of problems. Some of which I am sure was due to my being new to the sport. Thank God for a neighbor who lived down the street. He pulled out the Montgomery Ward catalog and showed me which line I needed for my rod. So I ordered a “Rocket Taper” weight forward line and it made all the difference.
Level fly line unless it is being used as running line for a shooting head system makes great tomato plant twine.
Dave
My thinking is that in the line/leader system there are two factors at work, weight and stiffness. As the line OR the leader becomes thinner, it also becomes lighter less stiff (generally speaking). In a well designed system the change, inch by inch, in the forward taper of the line - to the leader, and down the leader is smooth and gradual. As the line/loop travels through the air it loses momentum/energy but still has enough to carry the remaining length of line/leader, and is stiff enough to turn it over.
So I think the challenge is this: is it possible (given that the line is the full diameter) to create a leader with a butt that matches the line flexibilty at that point, and ALSO as heavy? If so, one could create a tapered leader to finish the job - although it might be quite long. If one could not do that, then the line/leader junction would probably become a hinge point and the cast would collapse.
For weighted flies (buggers), with a 6ft leader of 0X (6# test) for bass fishing, probably none of the above would apply or matter. IMO
A taper at the end of a flyline acts as a shock adsorber softening the final turnover. If you were to cast a level line with the main line diameter of a tapered one, you would have to be exactly right with the initial velocity so you di not overpower the end of the cast. In other words, the line has to have disipated all it’s energy by the end of the cast. If not, you get that old familiar kick down at the end of the cast making your presentation less than delicate. With much practice, you can do it. But the addition of a taper helps dissipate extra energy because the kinetic energy of the tapered line turning over is decreasing with the mass of the line at that point. It’s sort of a pillow allowing you to overpower a cast slightly and still get a good presentation.
As to a level line with a tapered leader, it would work the same if you could match the mass and stiffness of the leader with the taper in the flyline. But leader material is typically lighter and stiffer than the flyline so it would be hard. But with enough trial and error and practice, you could make it happen. But why?
BTW, for curve casts, a level line would be good because you want some kick at the end.
Bob
What taper does is to decrease mass and decrease the line profile.
For a fly line, leader and mass to extend completely, the energy available must be able finish extending the cast. However the available energy decreases as the line extends. To make casting a given length of line easier, we need to decrease mass and decrease the line profile so that there is less aerodynamic drag and therefore the energy available can extend the line. Basically, you can cast a level line a given distance BUT it would require more energy than a tapered line and the thicker line would land with more force.
There are several facts that come into play.
-
The first is that the thicker the line the grater the air resistance, and the greater the air resistance, the shorter the cast for a given energy. Air resistance varies directly with the surface area which varies with the line circumference which varies directly with the diameter (2R)
-
Line mass varies with line volume which varies with the radius squared.
-
So from 1 and 2 we know that for small changes in line diameter we get greater changes in line mass.
-
Kinetic Energy (KE) = 1/2 x M x V x V
Therefore line velocity contributes more to energy than line mass.
Using the 4 principles above, a given cast starts out with a given energy sufficient to extend the cast a given distance.
For a level line more energy is required to cast a given distance because:
a. For a given distance there is more line mass to be cast.
b. Since the line is a constant diameter there is more air resistance to be overcome for a given cast.
c. For a given distance requiring more energy, higher velocity is required because the total mass to be cast is greater. Casting line is essentially moving line mass and moving a mass is defined as work, so you need to work harder to cast a level line. Work is a force applied over a given distance, and it is the force that creates the KE needed to extend the cast.
For a tapered line and leader, you have greater mass turning over a section of lesser mass - hence effect of the taper:
a. For a given distance there is less total line/leader mass to be cast.
b. Since the line/leader tapers there is a decreasing energy loss due to air resistance compared to a level line. This also decreases the total energy or work needed to cast the line/leader.
c. For a given cast less starting velocity is needed, hence less work.
d. Once the cast is finished, the line falls to the water. Gravity pulls the line down but air resistance slows the fall. Since line mass decreases faster than surface area, a thinner line has relatively less mass for given surface area so it falls slower. (1/2 the diameter = 1/2 the surface area = 1/4 line volume = 1/4 the line mass)
What this means is that for a given cast less work is required and the corrolary to this is that for a given rod and a given caster, they will able to cast farther with a tapered line vs a level line. So tapered line allow longer casts which land more gently.
What taper does is to decrease mass and decrease the line profile.
For a fly line, leader and mass to extend completely, the energy available must be able finish extending the cast. However the available energy decreases as the line extends. To make casting a given length of line easier, we need to decrease mass and decrease the line profile so that there is less aerodynamic drag and therefore the energy available can extend the line. Basically, you can cast a level line a given distance BUT it would require more energy than a tapered line and the thicker line would land with more force.
You can stop reading now unless you want to understand why this is. The explanation follows for those that need to know the complete reasons.
There are several facts that come into play.
-
The first is that the thicker the line the greater the air resistance, and the greater the air resistance, the shorter the cast for a given energy. Air resistance varies directly with the surface area which varies with the line circumference which varies directly with the diameter (2R)
-
Line mass varies with line volume which varies with the radius squared.
-
So from 1 and 2 we know that for small changes in line diameter we get greater changes in line mass.
-
Kinetic Energy (KE) = 1/2 x M x V x V
Therefore line velocity contributes more to energy than line mass.
Using the 4 principles above, a given cast starts out with a given energy sufficient to extend the cast a given distance.
For a level line more energy is required to cast a given distance because:
a. For a given distance there is more line mass to be cast.
b. Since the line is a constant diameter there is more air resistance to be overcome for a given cast.
c. For a given distance requiring more energy, higher velocity is required because the total mass to be cast is greater. Casting line is essentially moving line mass and moving a mass is defined as work, so you need to work harder to cast a level line. Work is a force applied over a given distance, and it is the force that creates the KE needed to extend the cast.
For a tapered line and leader, you have greater mass turning over a section of lesser mass - hence effect of the taper:
a. For a given distance there is less total line/leader mass to be cast.
b. Since the line/leader tapers there is a decreasing energy loss due to air resistance compared to a level line. This also decreases the total energy or work needed to cast the line/leader.
c. For a given cast less starting velocity is needed, hence less work.
d. Once the cast is finished, the line falls to the water. Gravity pulls the line down but air resistance slows the fall. Since line mass decreases faster than surface area, a thinner line has relatively less mass for given surface area so it falls slower. (1/2 the diameter = 1/2 the surface area = 1/4 line volume = 1/4 the line mass)
What this means is that for a given cast less work is required and the corollary to this is that for a given rod and a given caster, they will able to cast farther with a tapered line vs a level line. So tapered line allow longer casts which land more gently.
hairwing -
What ‘Silver’ said!
Allan
Very well stated , hi oh Silver… 
Allen
I get what your gettin’ at.
I applaud both Bob and Henry though. The two of them always step up to the plate when questions like this come up and show a little enthusiasm. They give you guys something to think about, and that’s not all bad is it.
Not being the math wizard that silver is I will say i can not remember ever casting a level plastic line. I have and still use a level 0.45 silk line on my cane rods. I have found very little difference between a DT or level in the silk. I use ferrled leaders with a 0X splice between the line and leader. Now I also don’t cast more than 40 to 50 ft unlike many folks that lay out a lot of line.
Well why?..Some months ago I bought an 8wt. combo rod ,reel and line from a major outfitter for a hell of a price. Thing was, that when it showed up in the box there were no specifications or or manual to describe what I had. First thing I had to do was change the reel from left to right hand wind. Made a call to them and got instructions via internet. I also wanted to know what kind of fly line I had. I knew they advertised an 8wt.but was it a level line? WF or DT? Couldn’t get much help from them on this…top secret.
I got out my scientific measuring instruments, dusted them off, and began to figure it out for myself.
One thought went to another and I got to thinking about the possibility of reversing the 8WF line and having two fly lines in one. I weighed the running line at 30ft. and low and behold had 160 gns. on the button, a perfect 6 wt.! My concern like most was how the L6 would perform.
Today I went for a test ride and strung up my six weight with the reversed WF8. On the level running end I left 7’ of 20lb. backing for a leader and marked the line at 30 ft…I put the 6 wt through the paces out on the lawn. Straight hovering casts, piles, puddles, curves right and left, aerial mends, bounce backs, reach casts, rising loop flutters and oh what the 'ell let the whole fly line go for a ride. There was no kick back and really I couldn’t tell the difference from my WF6 or DT6 lines. Plus at a fishing distance of 40 to 45 feet I observed the light float of the line down to the ground. It was delicate!
My conclusion so far is that the value of the tapered fly line is slightly exaggerated. Your going to have to try it out for yourself and make a judgement. I dare you!
One other thing about a level taper is that the end will float higher and longer than a tapered line. This was something I always fought with the tapered line.
Before density compensated lines, level sinking lines were more effective than tapered sinking lines.
Remember that the core and coating of a fly line are of a given density or specific gravity. So to make a floating fly line we use material between the core and coating that is lighter than water - it is material with micro-bubbles. For a sinking line we use material that is heavier than water and that material in years past used to contain lead and now contains tungsten that is heavier yet.
Both floating and sinking lines used to use a uniform composition of floating or sinking material respectively between the the core and the coating. But that mean as the line tapered, there was relatively less and less of that material as we get closer to the tip. Remember from our discussion above that that volume is a square function of line diameter and surface area is a linear function. So at the tip of the fly line, there is relatively very little of the material that makes the line float or makes the line sink.
But it is even worse than that. The core and coating are constant and take up more and more of a rapidly shrinking volume as the line tapers. To use the example I used in the earlier discussion, a line that is 1/2 as thick has 1/4 the volume. Of that remaining 1/4 volume, a constant thickness of line core and line coating takes up a relatively greater portion of that remaining volume leaving less than 1/4 or the “relative” volume of the reference diameter.
Said in the simplest terms, the tapering of a floating line or a sinking line means the line near the tip will not float as high in a floating line or sink as fast in a sinking line as the full thickness section. Remember that the same gravity phenomena that causes a tapered line to fall more slowly through the air causes a tapered sinking line to sink more slowly through the water.
But for sinking lines it is worse than that, because water is 784 times as dense as air at sea level. So it is about 800 times more difficult to move through water than air.
So knowledgeable fly fishers used level sinking fly lines so that the tip of the fly line would not sink more slowly than the body and the fly would be at the level of the rest of the line. We chose more difficult casting to get a more effective retrieve.
Now fly fishers need not worry than the tip will sink more slowly because modern sinking lines are density compensated so that the density of the material in the taper gradually increases to get an even sink rate through out the taper.
While we are discussing sinking lines, here is an easy way to memorize and use the sink rate of sinking fly lines. Sinking fly lines are rated as to “Type” from 1 to 6, with the higher number sinking faster. Type 1 fly lines sink at 1 -2 ft per second, Type 2 at 2-3 FPS, and so one. I use the rule of thumb that a type 1 sinks 1 foot per 10 seconds, a type 2 at 2 ft per 10 seconds and so on up to a type 6 which sinks at about 6 ft every 10 seconds. Use increments of a 10 second count down to estimate the depth of your sinking fly line in still water.
hairwing,
You write,
“One other thing about a level taper is that the end will float higher and longer than a tapered line.”
What is a “level taper”? Is this dubble speak?
Allan
Yes Allan, I’m afraid that is dubya speak. My education goes to the 12th grade and fortunately I was able to get the “D” required to fulfill my graduation requirements in English and sometimes I mess up communicating. You are right …a level taper has no taper and is the same diameter from one end to the other. Sorry to confuse you.
All modern fly lines of the same weight rating will weigh the same (within 5% or so). If someone knows that level lines do not follow the AFTMA rating rules, please let me know.
From Bruce Richards (SA)
“FRONT TAPER ? Tip diameter and front taper length determine how a fly is delivered. Longer front tapers dissipate energy for more delicate presentation. Shorter front tapers transfer more energy from the belly to the tip for powerful turnover.”
I think Bruce has written a lot on fly lines. I haven’t seen a book but I am sure there is one. Anyone wanting to know about fly lines, Google his stuff. Or contact him at SA. He is a great guy and one of the world’s leading experts on fly lines.
Bob