:?: Question, I’m having a problem with casting. I’ve been doing a lot of LMB fishing in a local pond and can throw a #4 popper on a 4 and 5 weight with fair accuracy 65 to 70 ft. plus, decent cast. When I tie on a small streamer or small bluegill fly my fly crashes into my line on the forward cast about 25 ft. out.
I am a self taught caster and never taken a lesson in the roughly 3 1/2 years I’ve been flyfishing. ( probably picked up some bad habbits) I have been able to manage this somewhat by lowering my rod after the forward cast.
What troubles me the most is I can throw the heavier flies without this problem. I do keep my backcast high because I regularly catch the trees 25’ high and 30’ behind me.
I’m no expert by any means, but your loops might be too tight. maybe from being used to throwing the bigger flies with that rod. Hopefully if I’m incorrect someone will correct me.
Actually OLB your right on point, its a case of not adjusting the power to the application. Opening the loop will indeed have the effect of lowering the power for those that seem to have a problem adjusting stroke speed, not an uncommon situation for many fly fishermen. Leo, what you’ve identified is not a bad habit, but rather a void in your understanding. A bad habit denotes understanding on your part and a willingness to continue on without effort to correct it. Such is not your case.
Leo,
Wish I could understand your situation better but with many casters (personal experience included) the troubles with a lot of casting has to do with an adequate loading of your rod on the back cast.
Not knowing how you cast, this might be worth your consideration.
Sounds like your keeping your back casts high “enough”, …ala…parallel to the ground, not sinking much…
You beat me to it. I can barely cast 70 feet and when I do accuracy is measured in yards of target. Within 2 yards = accurate; 3 yards = somewhat accurate; 4 yards okay(I guess); 5 yards and I say, “I was trying for the other fish”.
I sometimes surprise myself. When I say with fair accuracy this would be on those days when the winds are very low or non existant or at my back. That would also be within about a 8’ circle.
I do double haul and have gotten used to casting heavy flies since most of my fishing has been saltwater. I do build up to it and when I change flies it takes a few minutes to get back into the groove.
I try to throw the whole line when things seem to be clicking and can’t do it. How tangled up I get!! I guess I can throw it all as long as I don’t take it out of the box.
My casting has improved tremendously this past year because I have fished about 2 to 3 times per week.
Casting the heavier wind resistant poppers you probably have to wait a second longer for the line to straighten behind you compared to casting the smaller fly. With the larger popper you may also feel a more noticeable tug on the line when the line straightens. The lighter fly will get back quicker and also not signal as clearly it is time for the forward stroke. It may be that you catch the trees on an interrupted back cast, which fools you into believing your back cast always stays high, but on a normal one I wonder if the line is starting to fall before you begin the forward cast. Then to get the feel you are used to (from the heavier popper) you are driving the rod too hard at the beginning of the forward cast in order to get the heavier feel you are used to. If you refine your sense of touch things should improve, IMHO.
By throwing your back cast abnormally high you are basically creating a concave path in your line path. A bigger bass bug will have a tendancy to pull the loop open where a standard fly will throw a tail.
One option would be to finish your forward cast lower. In lieu of trying to “throw” your cast high, actually picture drilling it into the water. Push your hand forward as you finish. This will delay your finish and cause your loop to flatten considerably. It will basically do the same thing your heavy fly is doing naturally.
Try going out into the yard and cast with the same standard fly. Dollars to donuts that you don’t throw a tail.
(I can throw it all as long as I don’t take it out of the box)
That is a great line
Mr. Wilson you hit the nail on the head, I could not agree more with
your statement about throwing your forward stroke lower with more force. However, it takes much practice to get to this point
in your casting. other things you must couple with this, like thumb pressure as well as feeling and timing your wrist stop come into play.
These two things I mention here will help and should if done at the right moment eliminate the tailing loop.
The subtle thumb movement ( squeezing ) at the end of your forward stroke is the one improvement that worked to rid me of the famous tailing loop. I heard it discribed once as opening a screen door “push with your thumb and pull with your index finger”. Use a pencil and practice it until it becomes second nature. Once it clicks you got it for life…
If you see a guy driving down the street with weird arm/ hand movements it would be me practicing my casting…
and yes Leo now thanks to you I can also throw the whole line… :lol:
I solved my tailing loop problems a couple of months ago. I can now create a tailing loop whenever I choose, and cast without one about 90% of the time.
What was causing my tailing loops may be different than you, but here’s what I found. If I start my forward cast too abruptly, without a slow and gradual acceleration to an abrupt stop, I will get a tailing loop every time. If I gradually apply power, getting the entire line moving foward before I sharply accelerate and then stop, then I never get a tailing loop.
Absolutely,perfect description to a very common problem with timing the acceleration. If you start too quickly you cannot contiue to accelerate to the stop, the rod slows down and makes the classic negative curve,causing a tailing loop.
The most common cause of tailing loops is punching the rod at the end of the forward cast,if you do not make the steady acceleration to a stop and try to get additional distance with a straight line punch,the line will tail.
Great discussion to a very common problem in casting.
My thoughts exactly. I had this same problem Leo - I could cast a size 10 weighted nymph well, but as soon as I put a dry on, I developed horrible tailing loops. This was because I do 90% of my fishign with nymphs and streamers. I had gotten used to the tug of the weighted fly on my back cast. Instead of waiting longer to feel the tug (what you would assume you would do) I rushed the forward cast, which caused the tailing loops. Try watching your back cast to get the timing right when it straightens.
Edit: After posting, I see the following is similar to the advice given by flyfish AR. I think we are saying the same thing - just differently. Basically - finish lower, not higher.
Try focusing on moving your arm in a gentle arc upwards and then back down as you cast forwards. Nothing too extreme here - just a gentle rise - maybe 2-3""- and fall out of a flat plane. Tailing loops can be caused by a forward stoke that is concave or that arcs below and then back above the initial back cast position. If you focus on moving your arm in an arc that goes up then back down (just slightlly) you will probably actually probably move the rod in a farily straight line - which is what you want. If you are overpowering the forward cast, you are probably punching it down and away and back up. So this might solve the problem.
Ironically, beginners don’t seem to get tailing loops. Its something that develops later.
I do believe everyone has nailed it. I need to accelerate more slowly on my forward cast. I’ve been punching it much harder than necessary, (only causing the problem). By slowing down the acceleration and giving a slower forward cast before a rapid increase in speed before the abrupt stop the tailing loops go away. Just have to get used to the change in casting stroke with the lighter flies.
I guess this is what happens when you push the limits of a 4wt. for LMB.
Yah, that was sort of a blanket statment. Beginners probably do get them. But its more common to develop it later - after you are able to aerialise more line. At least - thats what the instructor who sorted out my tailing loops said.
