ok so whild going through the cpl fly tying books i have i notced that i dont have some of the furs or frathers required so i was wondering what can be used for substution. also i thought that mabe we could dedicate this thread to just that with a sticky at the top later? good idea? what do you think?
so others who have the same question can find the answers in one spot.
the furs i’m interested in finding subs for are
polor bear
calf tail
hear’s ear
moose main
thanks all
Can’t help on polar bear hair;
Depending on what you are looking to use it for, calf tail can be replaced with calf body hair, poly yarn (or some other similar synthetic), or turkey flats.
Hare’s ear can be replaced with any spiky dubbing (but you really should get some).
Moose mane can be replaced with deer or elk hair (you should really get some of this as well).
White Skunk fur is the best substitute I’ve found for polar bear. Depending on how much of it that you need, I have some that I can share with you.
Jim Smith
You can pretty much make substitutions as you see fit (or need). I’ve used horse tail for moose mane, buck tail for calf tail and ground squirrel for hare’s ear. I don’t know a good polar bear sub.
This is something that gets easier as you become a more experienced tyer. The idea is to look at the fly and determine what the purpose of the material is in the fly. Once you understand what the reason for using that material is you can look at what you have that will have a similar effect. When you only have a few materials it is certainly harder to find something that will work. It is now hunting season so you should be gathering material by hunting or asking freinds who do hunt for the following items:
squirrel skins and tails (skin will substitute for hares mask in a pinch)
duck wings, flank feathers and CDC
deer hair and bucktail
skins from any upland bird (loose feathers and wings at least)
snowshoe rabbit feet and masks (that is your hares mask)
turkey tail and wing feathers (especially secondary wing feathers)
elk and moose if possible
just about anything else though I have given up on skunk which I just can’t get the odor out of
If you’re not sure what to keep from a given bird or animal just ask here
Check with a taxidermist… They usually have tons of scraps cut from the edges and such of all sorts of critters. Some have taken to saving and selling some…
Mountain goat is a far better substitute for polar bear, to our eyes, but fish prefer the real deal!
Poly-Bear is a synthetic sub I really like for colors… But my stash of real polar bear came from an old rug and can be measured by the square foot! 
Calf tail is too cheap to consider a substitute. I bought a huge box of tails last year on Flea-Bay for just about a buck apiece.
Hare’s masks are cheap and getting a couple dyed ones is a good idea, too.
Moose mane is usually used for bodies where a white and a dark hair are wrapped together to create a segmented look. You will not find hair long enough on elk or deer for that. A small piece will last a very long time… Moose body hair is useful for tailing on some dries… It floats extremely well.
art
i have called a few axidermistand they all told me too call back in a few months as our seasions just started. i cant hunt this year as i cant afford to get up to maine. (wont use a shotgun only ny garrand) but as for the other ideas thanks they ill help a bunch.
Here is a good cheap book that I found that has some good information in it for those of us that want to gather our own materials: http://www.amazon.com/Field-Fly-Tiers-Skinning-Preserving/dp/1571882057
Think that I paid $5 for my copy off of Ebay.
Bluntly some animals, it’s just cheaper and a whole lot easier to just buy the material that has been de-bugged, and prepped properly by a pro outfit. You lower your risk of infecting all of the stuff that you have already purchased. Make no mistake bugs can be bad, but I haven’t ever had the wonderful experience myself. Lots of flea and tick collars with my materials.
I looked a skinning and fleshing and drying a whole pheasant skin, then I saw one for $8 on sale. For me it is easier to pay the $8.
Now if I could just find that animal that has Crinkled Zelon and that rare flashabou critter. Synthetics are becoming more and more prevalent.
I think part of the answer depends on what you’re tying.
I get creative with fly reciepes all the time and substitute different stuff. No, it’s not “the fly” but typically the fish do not mind too much.
Size, silhoutte and presentation are, I believe, more important to the fish than if it’s white Polar Bear hair, or some other hair that has been bleached or dyed white.
Jeff
CharlaineC,
Noticed on your post you have a Garand. Finest rifle ever made in my humble opinion (and that of George Patton). Would love to own one myself.
REE
The best Polar Bear sub is Polar Fiber. You can get it at Cabelas, and it is very reasonably priced. White Renegade Craft Fur makes a pretty good sub as well.
The best Calf-Tail sub I know of is poly yarn. I buy it at Wal-Mart for $1.00 a skien, which will tie a lifetime worth of flies.
For Hare’s Ear fur, I use Hareline or Haretron dubbing. It’s great and comes in all kinds of colors. I get it at Cabelas.
For Moose Main, I use Elk Hair, or Deer Body Hair.
I don’t know if these are the correct subs or not, but my flies always work correctly and they catch fish, so I am OK with it.
Hi Charlaine,
You certainly do not have to have all of the stuff found in pattern books. Substitution is fairly standard procedure. The key is to understand what different types of materials can be used for different applications.
In this case, calf tail (also known as Kip tail) is often used for winging and tailing dry flies. If the color needed is white, then the white portion of a bucktail will work just fine. If dyed color is needed, then dyed buck tail will again work just fine.
Polar bear is a problem. Because of the endangered species act, it is almost unavailable in the US. It is still available to some extent in Canada, to my understanding. In this country it can be had in the form of old rugs or perhaps coats that were shot before the endnagered species act and other similar items. Such sources are extremely difficult to come by. Where good quality polar bear of this type can be found, it often makes it’s way into fly shops. There it is VERY pricey IF you find it.
The attractive quaility about polar bear is it’s transparant/translucent qualities. Polar bear hair is essentially colorless and hollow so as to transmit the sunlight that falls on them down to the skin where it is absorbed as heat to help keep the bear warm. It looks white on the bear, but is not, instead being colorless, so other natural types of white hair are not a good substitutes.
The transparent qualities polar bear has are extremely desirable but can not be matched very well by any natural hair, as far as I have been advised by some very knowledgable tiers. (I don’t have any real polar bear, as it is too pricey for me.) I have been advised of prices at a minimum of $10 and more per square inch.
Substitutes have been developed, because the real thing is so expensive and hard to come by. These are primarily made from synthetics. One such substitute is Ronn Lucas’s Irridescent Dubbing. I have used it, it is good stuff, and it is effective. There are other substitutes as well. The down side is that none of the substitutes are not easy to tie with, but I have been advised that the real thing is also a bit of a pain to tie with.
Hare’s ear is used for dubbing of such flies as the gold ribbed hare’s ear nymph, and other flies. You can find it in fly shops as packaged dubbing for a couple of bucks. The other option is to buy a hare’s mask (the hide from the head of a European hare), trim the fur from it, and mix it thoroughly. A hare’s mask generally runs about $5. When I make my own dubbing from a mask, I trim the ears and all of the fur except the really light color cheek patches. You can trim the cheek patches separately and use it for lighter color dubbing.
However, I have also mixed other fur types, that had colors similar to that of the various parts of the hare’s mask, and made a hare’s max substitute that was extremely similar to the real thing.
Moose mane is on the top of the moose neck, and consists of long hair some of the hairs being black and some of them being white. The typical use of moose main is for the body of a mosquito pattern. It often works better in use if the moose mane hair is made damp prior to winding on the body of the fly. It can have a tendancy to break if not dampened prior to use. I have used porcupine guard hair, of the proper colors, in place of moose mane. It stands up very well, much better than the moose.
When I took a fly tying class many years ago, my fly tying instructor used white plastic fiber from coarse plastic twine in place of moose hair for the white portion of the body. I think he may have used black thread for the black portion of the body. To do this, he first wrapped the hook shank with black thread after tying in the tailing. This was followed by ribbing the body with the white plastic. He claimed it worked very well, and stood up to fishing much better than did the moose mane.
At any rate, the key to substitution is to understand the use of the material in the pattern, and then to know what materials will work similarly to the material that is called for.
As I and others have mentioned, substitution is very common in fly tying. This is the case in tying your flies, and also in flies that are comercially tied for fly shops.
Regards,
Gandolf
thank you all this is great information.
ree yes the m1 garrand is my best hunting rifle and competion rifle i own it was carried by my gradfather up mt seribatchi ( yes i spelt it wrong) in wwII as well as the rest of his time in the war. whn it was time for him to head in to the war with north koriea he sent it home with his other war tropies and was issued a new weapon. When he past he was willed his collection over 265 firearms frm wwi-veitnam to the first person in out famiy to have to fight for our country. That person was me most of the collection is on display in mass. with only a few pecies kept for my personal use. I was never lucky enough to meet my grandfather bu I know from what I have been told we are alike in man ways. he too love to tie flies and to flyfish a well as hunt and other such things.
Your grandfather would have been proud 
I’m on my way within the hour to pick my son up at the airport. Haven’t seen him since March. He is between assignments and has a few weeks off. Flying in from MS on his way to AR. It’s a holiday in our home since we are pulling the other two younger kids out of school today to go along on the trip to the airport.
Charlaine, thanks for your service and sacrafice for the rest of us.
clay i thank you alo bt i was only doing my job it to me was an honor. though i will sa it feels grat that a forum like this cares so much seeing as my own hometown didnt.
I know, I know, it’s all about money, or more often than not lack thereof, but for about $25 at Janns Netcraft (plus shipping)you can get the most common staple items for your growing material collection.
For all you Hook & Hackle pundits, I did the comparison shopping and have posted their higher prices.
Antron dubbing $1.55 [H&H $2.75]
Rabbit dubbing $1.49 [H&H $1.65]
Barred turkey quills $2.99 [H&H $4.25]
Mallard Flanks $1.79 [H&H $2.25]
Calf tails $2.99 [H&H $3.83]
Strung peacock herl $1.89 [H&H $3.50]
Chenille $.82ea (black and olive) $1.64 [H&H $.95 ea]
Marabou $1.19ea (black and olive) $2.38 [H&H $2.35ea]
Deer Hair $1.59 [H&H $2.25]
Moose mane is $1.69 [H&H $2.00]
Zonker Strips $1.89 [H&H $2.25]
6/0 thread $1.35ea (black, white & olive) $4.05 [H&H $1.35ea]
.020 Lead wire $.69 [H&H $2.50]
2 sided tinsel $1.09 [H&H $1.25]
Of course all these can be found at any tying shop, but usually at much higher prices. Bass Pro would be the next cheapest, then Cabela’s.
If you have a Sportsman’s Warehouse in the area, thier prices are similar to Janns. A lot of them closed recently, though. Thread was $1.19 a spool for whatever they had in UNI, floss, yarn, tinsel, and even ultra wire.
I like the way that you think! Another comparison shopper who doesn’t mind spending money, just wants to get the most for the money that he spends.
in bass bugs item list, it appears the thread is danvilles 6/0. the price at jans is 1.35 and the listed price at h&h is also 1.35 for a 200 yard spool. but i think he forgot to click on the “BUY” button where the thread is gonna cost him only 1.10 per spool. h&h thread is discounted 10%, jans is not.
chenille at jans is .82 cents and at h&h its .86 cents with the h&h discount
this is only 2 examples. there may be more on the list
i think you need to click on the “BUY” button to get the real prices on the h&h website for a true comparison.
some prices may still be higher than jans and some may even be lower than jans.