Strike Indicators (FLOATS) for warm water fishing....

Since Hungntree didn’t specify on his post whether or not he was asking about ‘strike indicators’ for warm water, or just in general, he got lots of responses about indicators for trout fishing in rivers.

Since there IS a huge difference, I wanted to address it for the warmwater lake bass and panfish fisherman, rather than the moving water guys.

Warmwater forum here, remember…(you river trout guys go away!!! :wink: ).

(trout nymphing in a river with an indicator is easy…current makes most of the finesse out of it…just watch the thing and if it drops, you got bit…so which indicator you use is personal preference-ALL of them work just fine, as does using ‘none’.)

For strike indicators for fishing for bass and panfish, the ‘requirements’ are a bit different than what you may need for trout…first, you can’t get the same presentation by not using an indicator than you can with one. Unlike trout fishing in rivers, where some folks believe that being able to nymph without using an indicator is some kind of ‘I’m better than you thing’, in warmwater, not knowing how to do this properly severly limits your fishing. You can’t catch the ‘same fish’ without a float.

I am talking about using a float, or indicator if you prefer, for DEPTH CONTROL. That’s different from just hanging a trailing fly off the back of a topwater bug or fly…nothing wrong with that, popper/dropper is deadly for bass and panfish in the summer, but it’s not the same thing.

Indicators are a tool, and they have properties that make them desirable or not depending on where you fish and how you fish.

For warmwater indicators:

They have to be able to hold up heavier flies…some with lead dumbell eyes…yarn won’t do it, neither will the cute little foam circles or ‘putty’ stuff…all of these are for trout nymphing…doesn’t much matter as long as you can see them for that. Cork, foam, or balsa will work.

You need to see them, often in waves, so color is important. I prefer black and bright yellow, but chartruese, orange, whichever YOU can see is the always the way to go…if you can’t see it EASILY, you are not going to catch many fish with it.

Sometimes you need LOTS of tippet under the indicator. One that will come loose and slide down the line at the hook set is helpful when fishing twenty or thrity feet deep.

‘Sensitivity’ is a buzzword that translates to: “I don’t know what I’m doing and if the indicator doesn’t sink out of sight I’m clueless”. For warm water, it doesn’t mean that the thing is small and sinks easily. If you can see and cast the indicator, BIGGER IS BETTER…fish don’t ‘see’ these, it won’t ‘spook’ them, and the ability to sense movement on a larger object bouncing on the water is easier than with a tiny one. A larger indicator has more bouyancy. When the fish pulls on it, it resists, getting the hook positioned properly for the hookset (no, the fish won’t ‘care’…bass guys down in Florida use balloons blown up to six inches in diameter, and the fish don’t care).

Round indicators are giving up too much. Can’t tell anything other than up and down with them. If your tippet changes direction, a round indicator won’t let you know. Indicators should be cylindrical, or at least have a ‘barrell’ or protrusion on top that ‘points’ the direction of the line. This is helpful, especially on light striking fish. By the way, for any such things to work, you have to use enough weight to properly load the float. Too little weight is usually worse than too much.

The ‘longer’ you can make an indicator, and still be able to cast it, the better. The fishermen who have taken light tackle float fishing to an art form tend to use very light and bouyant balsa floats with long ‘arms’…these aren’t there for looks, they ‘tell’ the angler things. A long indicator will ‘lay flat’ on the water if the fish takes the fly while coming upwards, thus removing the weight from the indicator. Fly fishing indicators don’t need to be very long, either. An inch, inch and a half indicator will do this well.

I use two types, both home made and both made from foam (see attached thumbnails). One has a loop of rubber out the bottom, and the other has a hole through it and I ‘peg’ it into place with a piece of hollow ‘Q-tip’ tube that’s also on the line. This will ‘come free’ at the hook set and slide down to the weight or fly.

The one that ‘loops’ onto the leader does leave a ‘kink’ in the leader…I’m not sure what the problem is with this, as a strong pull on the leader removes it instantly…I use this for fishing up to around ten to twelve feet deep. I use the ‘releasing’ indicator when I fish deeper than that.

This is a deadly technique for bass, especially in cooler water. Tie flies on jig hooks so they hang properly, and just let the wind/wave action do it’s thing. Take can be light, so you need to pay attention and give a gentle lift each time you see the indicator bobble any (or lift up, which happens more than you’d think). If there is a fish, the indicator will dive, and you can set the hook.

Same thing for BIG bluegills in the winter months. A couple of nymphs with enough weight to take them down, and with this technique you can fish slow enough, and with positive depth control, to interest the bigger fish.

There is an art to using a float in warmwater that is just as worthy of mastering as learning to mend or work a topwater bait.

Buddy

P.s; I use the same ‘indicators’ for stillwater trout fishing, and for when an indicator is called for in a river…fish don’t seem to care. BS.

Buddy -

No way - this Forum is much too interesting !!

John

Buddy, nice description of some uses of indicators on still water, especially for bass and panfish.

I have found that the most effective way to fish crappies hanging in submerged brush or trees is with the use of an indicator to hang the flies in the branches without retrieving and possibly snagging them.

You can also use an indicator the get a fly to fall and swing into structure instead of away from it. Make a cast to get the flies and indicator near the target. Then slip some extra line outside of the rod tip and make an slightly underpowered rollcast. You want the cast to position the indicator up near the structure but not strong enough to lift the flies out of water and turn over the leader. The flies will sink and as they fall, swing toward the structure.

I agree with you Buddy on bigger indicators for stillwater, but I use the same ones for Trout or Bass. No difference to me.

I prefer these:

these are the break aways and I did a little demo on my blog explaining how they work.

Good thing about these, is you can go as deep as you want.

On stillwater I prefer the one inch.

Buddy, did you make those indicators—floats?

The floats you’re talking about are called wagglers. I’ve been using them for the past 12-15 years (although I’m not sure what I do could be classed as an “art form”. :wink: )

These floats have spoiled me and are the main reason I don’t use indicators while fly fishing. They’re just much better than any indicator I’ve ever seen. For that reason, I like to float fish with spinning gear and fly fish without any type of indicator.

Tailingloop,

Great technique, I’m looking forward to adding that one to my arsenal…I know just the place…places…

McManus,

Yes, I made the ones in the thumbnails with my post. The ones with the pink pegs function like the ones that FlyGoddess posted. I believe that hers are available comercially…I needed some that did that a few years ago, and couldn’t find them so I made some.

DBD,

I ‘learned’ (read ‘watched in awe’-not sure I really ever ‘got it’) how to use a ‘waggler’ style float from an old fellow in Alabama. He was a master at it, and spent many long days trying to get it into my thick skull that I had to not only ‘watch’ the float, but also learn to ‘see’ what it was telling me. I swear that he’d catch fish when I didn’t even see his float move at all. He used this technique for bass, catfish, brim, and crappie with a variety of live and artificial baits. He always preached depth control as the most critical aspect in fishing. As far as I know, he never caught or fished for a trout.

Buddy

Uhmmm…indy nymphing in a river is significantly harder than in a lake.

But finding the right indy for a lake appears to be harder than it is for stream fishing.

Steven,

We can agree to disagree about which is more difficult. Both require skills, that’s certainly true.

I do agree that the ‘type’ of indicator used in a lake matters more.

Buddy

If you think indicators used in streams are for indicating a hit only, you are incorrect. And if you think that when the indicator goes down you have a hit you are incorrect again.

I use indicators to set the depth of the fly.

Many times when the indicator goes down it is because the fly has snagged on something.

But that being said I know what you MEANT.

That being said I fish streams, lakes and ponds for all sorts of fish.

Years ago I went on the Deschutes with John Judy…sorry Buddy this is about moving water {there is a little of that on the Deschutes}…

Turned out to be a lesson in indicator fishing …it was incredible…he had a special way to rig and what he could see a fluff of yarn do was amazing…it wasn’t just about up and down by any means …like you Buddy I couldn’t get it through my thick skull …being mostly a dry fly guy when on rivers I have never really tried to master what he was presenting…

He is apparently still around and has published stuff that includes the techniques…

http://www.johnjudyflyfishing.com/

When done “properly” my belief is that river fishing
indicators is just a sophisticated as on lakes.
Reading your description above certainly reminded me of my day with John:cool:.

Good discussion…thanks.

When you make the releasing indicators…do you taper the center hole so it will accept the fly line? I had a little trouble with that and find it hard to insert the fly line without a taper. The ones Joni shows have a taper…in fact the peg is tapered.

I do both. Can I stay??:smiley:

“Warmwater forum here, remember…(you river trout guys go away!!! :wink: ).”

Duckster,

If I understand the question, the fly line doesn’t go into the ‘releasing’ indicator, just the tippet (not the leader, either, or it will ‘catch’ on the leader to tippet knot and won’t slide). The ‘hole’ is larger on the store bought ones, so I gues you could put these up onto the leader if yu wanted to, and they would slide okay. I’d just worry about the thicker leader making that 90 degree turn…not a problem with tippet doing that.

You can end up with really long tippets here. I’ve used up to 30 feet. To say it’s ‘hard to cast’ would be an understatement. Usually all you can do it get it out there a little ways and let wind/drift do the rest. It only works at these type of depths from a boat, unless you are fishing from the top of big dam…;)…

Deadly, though, for winter bass fishing. It’s the only way I can compete with the jigging spoon guys.

Buddy

BBW,

Kidding about the ‘easy’ stuff for ANY type of indicator fishing. All of it takes skills, especially if you get past the ‘it just shows strikes’ stage. Some guys are real artists at this.

Buddy,

Yep, we are talking about two different things. The ones Joni shows and I have…are designed for putting the fly line through the hollow peg…then looping the line into the hole into the bobber…and jamming it with the peg…on tension of the fish the line pulls out of the bobber but of course is still in the peg which also keeps it through the bobber so both can slip down to the fish…thereby making it possible to fish at depths of say 20/30 feet with average size leaders…used especially for chronomid fishing from float tubes…so you can bring the fish to hand.

I suspect you knew the above but just in case others didn’t.

When you mentioned the hollow Q-tips I wondered why I hadn’t thought of that…but I now realize they are too narrow for at least most fly lines…so I’m still trying to find something to use for the pegs.

I agree that floats have a place in a stillwater arsenal. I use a #6 hoppicator in orange, yellow or chartreuse, and it works great for depth control. It also catches fish on it’s own once in a while. I usually set it up with a level leader (4 lb. test Mr. Crappie Camo line) and a Tussle Bug fished under it.
You might consider this the popper/dropper method, but since it’s adjustable, I think it has merit in the context of this conversation.

[QUOTE=ducksterman;277826]Buddy,

The ones Joni shows and I have…are designed for putting the fly line through the hollow peg…then looping the line into the hole into the bobber…and jamming it with the peg…on tension of the fish the line pulls out of the bobber but of course is still in the peg which also keeps it through the bobber so both can slip down to the fish…

Duckster, it is the LEADER not the fly line, and yes Knots can stop them. That is why I use straight Fluorocarbon for the leader. I can put a tag or a knot down towards the end like 3’ to 5’ as I can handle that much line with ease, it is the other 20’+ that I can manage with an indicator.

Here is a little vid I did explaining them.

http://s44.photobucket.com/remix/player.swf?videoURL=http%3A%2F%2Fvid44.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff17%2FFlyGoddess%2F61715350.pbr&hostname=stream44.photobucket.com&fs=1&os=1&ap=1

HHhhmmm…I’ve been doing it with the line.

Can’t wait to try this out on the local ponds!

[QUOTE=Buddy Sanders;277382]Since Hungntree didn’t specify on his post whether or not he was asking about ‘strike indicators’ for warm water, or just in general, he got lots of responses about indicators for trout fishing in rivers.

Buddy,

As I am brand new to fly fishing, I will yet again show my ignorance to everyone on this board. :slight_smile: I just assumed that a strike indicator would work for either flowing water or still water. Thank you very much for pointing out the difference. I am hopeing to get my first fly fishing trip in, shortly. If the weather will cooperate and Jack stays willing to put up with me. :slight_smile: But I will be mostly fishing warm water and creeks here and you have certainly helped with the indicators.

thanks,
hNt