Since I began FF I have always fished rivers. My experiance fishing stillwaters has always been to rising fish, so it was pretty easy. Recently I have been trying my hand at stillwater midge fishing with some success. To be honest I feel like I might as well have a red and white bobber on with a worm under it. I know a midge can be deadly on lakes but I just dont have a clue on how to fish it. Do you use an indicator, do you strip? Help!
Born to fish forced to work.
Alan
Here’s a website you might want to check out:
[url=http://www.chironomid.com/:72c5a]http://www.chironomid.com/[/url:72c5a]
Also, do a Google search for “buzzer”. That’s the English name for chironomids, and they’re very good at that style of fishing.
Alan, chironomid fishing can definitely be daunting when first trying to figure out how to fish them effectively, but more often then not, they are the primary food source for stillwater fish and thus present a larger “window of opportunity” for the stillwater flyfisherman. As such, it pays off big to learn how to fish them.
There is a lot of information on this topic in the form of books, videos, internet, etc. (Brian Chan has a lot of good material out there as do others) that can be a big help and if you are serious, you should look into acquring these resources. Above all, commit yourself to fishing chironomids no matter how little success you may experience initially (there is no greater teacher than personal experience).
With that, the first thing to understand is the life cyle of a chironomid (egg, larva, pupa, adult) and the characteristics of each. Generally, most discussions involving chironomids and flyfishing is focused on the pupal stage, but I would first pay attention to the larval stage. In this stage, the chironomid resembles a worm, often called a “bloodworm” by fly fisherman because of the maroon or red coloration of the natural. Chironomid larva can be found in other colors, such as brown and olive. Generally sizes run from 8-16, but I have had great success fishing imitations in the 8-12 range.
Chironomid larva live in tubular homes on the bottom of the lake at various depths depending upon the time of the year. Spring and late fall are particularly good times to fish larval patterns because these times mark their seasonal migrations to shallow (spring) or deep (fall) water. During these periods, larva will leave the security of the tubes which encase them and migrate to shallower or deeper water. They are extremely poor swimmers, and at best wriggle and writhe their way near the bottom, completely at the mercy of the elements, but more importantly the trout as well.
Periods of low light are also effective times to fish chironomid larva because they will leave thier tubes under the security of such conditions to feed on the available detris and vegetation. When fishing larval imitations, it is best to fish them 1-2 feet from the bottom (although there have been a few instances when fishing them higher up in the water column has really been effective for me when I could not elicit strikes fishing the same pattern near the bottom; I am not really sure why though). Key to fishing larva imitations is giving them some slight movement (although this is often conditional depending upon the fish; they may want it dead still some days) every so often. I have had many fish immediately strike my imitation after giving it a quick, subtle twitch following a period of letting it remain motionless. One needs to experiment with retrieves when fishing this stage of the chironomid (something which is true of the pupal stage as well). This is also a good stage of the insect to fish when there is no noticeable hatch going on as larva are available year round to trout.
The most commonly fished stage of the chironomid is the pupal stage. It is from the pupa that the adult eventually emerges on the surface, although this process takes a long time because pupa ascend to the surface VERY slowly (something critical to flyfishers as we try to imitate the pupal ascension with a retrieve that mimics the natural). Initially, pupa will stage themselves near the bottom before beginning their ascent to the surface (this staging can last for a few weeks), and trout will feed on pupa near the bottom just as they would a larva. After the pupa begin their ascent, the trout will follow them upwards as they rise to the surface, meaning that trout can be feeding on pupa at any depth within the entire water column from top to bottom.
In light of this, it is my opinion that the most important general factor to consider when fishing pupal imitations is depth. As I mentioned, fish may be feeding on pupa at different depths within the water column depending upon the progression of the hatch. As such, to be successful, an angler needs to put his fly where the fish are feeding. As a general rule, I will start fishing the bottom of the water column by keeping my fly(or flies) 1-2 ft from the bottom. If that does not work, I will make depth adjustsments upwards in 2ft increments as necessary (it is important to note that fishing the bottom two feet in 10 feet of water for example may not produce fish while fishing the bottom two feet in 20 ft of water will produce fish; sometimes you need to change not the depth of the fly you are fishing, but the depth of the water you are fishing in). If you can, I’d fish a two fly rig with my top fly about 12-18 in from my bottom fly (use fluorcarbon if at all possible).
Two other important factors that fish will key selectively in on at times is size and color. Though this is not always the case, it is sometimes necessary to fish an imitation the same size as the natural the fish are selectively feeding upon (however, sometime during a very heavy hatch, it pays to fish a larger imitation to make your pattern stand out from all the naturals; this has often worked for me when fishing an exact sized imitation did not). To determine size and color, you can use a stomach pump or capture a natural pupa from the water with an acquarium net. You can also look for shucks floating in the water to get a read on size, or capture an adult (the pupa is often one size larger than the adult). The adult is usually a lighter shade than the pupa, so use a slightly darker pupa imitation. Important to note is that there often is more than one size and color of chironomid hatching and/or available to trout in many lakes, so one needs to be consistently observant and flexible in their approach, especially if fish are feeding selectively.
As I mentioned earlier, the pupa rise very slowly so the retrieve you employ must match the ascent of the natural. A figure 8 retrieve that can take upwards of five minutes to get to the surface, depending upon how deep the water is, is not uncommon. The type of retrieve employed is relative to the situation and conditions, specifically what the fish want on a particular day. Sometimes they want the fly with no movement, or quick, subtle movement, or steady slow movement, etc… It pays again to be flexible and mix up your retrieves until you find one that the fish want. Do not be afraid to go against the book and fish the chironomid slightly more agressively than one would typically think to fish it in light of how slowly the natural ascends to the surface. Some days, for whatever reason, the fish respond to a more agressively retreived chironomid (not that you are fishing like a streamer mind you).
Another thing to consider to location. Do not keeping casting to the same areas, especially if they are not producing. Sometimes simply casting a few feet to the right or left of an unproducing location will bring about a strike. There are some days when I will only let my fly sit in an area for thirty seconds or so before picking up and casting to a new location. That alone has caught me fish when changing patterns, fishing depths, etc. has proved unsuccessful.
There is so much to this technique, but I have gone on too long already. It is somewhat of a passion of mine so I apologize if I bored you with too many details. If there are any questions you have, please feel free to email me at dkutt69@hotmail.com and I will help you in any way I can. Good luck.
Dave
Dave… That has got to be one of the best posts I have ever seen. Thank you very much. I am going to print that out and put it in my note book.
Dave, great info on fishing the bottom 1-2 feet, but I have no idea how to get there. Do you just feed out line till it quits going out, or is there enough movement underwater that your line won’t go straight down and might move along the bottom. Or will you feel it if you are on the bottom? Try to drag it a little to see if you can feel it? You can tell I’m a river fisher, too, but if I could catch fish in stillwater I might enjoy a “toon”.
Alan, I am glad that you found something of use in my post. I am not an expert, but would be glad to offer any further assistance so please do not hesitate to ask if you have additional questions. When I first started, having someone to answer my questions really helped lessen the learning curve for me and increase my success rate with chrinomids.
Herefishy, ensuring that your fly is in the bottom 2 ft of the water column can be accomplished in a number of ways. If you really want to be certain your fly is in that zone, clip hemostats to your fly (or alligator clips) and adjust your indicator so its about 12-24 inches under the water when the weight is on the bottom and you will know your fly is where you want it to be. This assumes of course that you are fishing in a constant depth of water. Often times, the best places to fish are drop offs, which you would need to account for if fishing along the edge of one of those as where you are anchored and where you would be casting your fly might not have the same depth.
I also use patterns with beads and if necessary, will add small shot above my top fly. In most instances, if I know the depth of the water I am fishing in (which is critical if you are fishing chironomids), then I know how far above my fly the indicator should be to get my fly in the proper zone. BH patterns and split help ensure that my fly is getting down and staying in the zone I want it to be in. Of course, one needs to account for the present conditions on the water as some days with lots of wind and chop can make it more difficult to get an accurate read on where your flies actually are at in the water column.
Another way in which you can get your flies in that zone is to use a full sink line (I use a type 6 because it sinks so quickly). I typically only use this line when fishing in water 20ft or deeper. In such instances, I will determine depth, cast only as much line as necessary to reach bottom, the slowly begin to retreive my fly vertically upwards through the water column.
Hope that helps some.
Dave
I forgot to mention in my first post a technique I will employ from time to time, particularly when there is a bit of a breeze that creates a “current” in the water. In such situations, specifically if the fish have demonstrated they are keying on movement or motion (no matter how slight or subtle), I will cast my line “cross current” (like one who is fishing a stream or river would do) and allow a big belly to form in my line (the type of belly one would attempt to mend to avoid drag, unless you are fishing a streamer pattern). This belly in the line will “lead” the fly and manipulate its movement through the water column in a manner which simulates the ascent of the natural. Towards the end of the “drift”, as that belly begins to straighten out, fish will often take my chironomid imitation when the would not strike if the fly was motionless or “dead drifting” in the current created by the wind.
I suspect that as the line belly begins to straighten, my fly begins to slowly ascend through the water column at an angle mirroring that of the natural (similar to a nymph fisherman utilizing the “Leisering lift” technique to imitate the ascent of the natural nymphs to the surface prior to hatching). Eventually, the fly is directly below me on a straight line (just like a steelhead fisherman who finished his “swing” and the line has straightened out directly below downstream) and I will pick up, cast across “current” (or up and across if I want the fly to have more time to sink) to begin the process all over.
This is simply one way in which an angler can manipulate the movement of the chironomid imitation when it is in the water. I cannot stress how important movement can be at times when fishing stillwaters with chironomids. Often a particular type of movement characteristic will be THE key to elicit a strike, so developing an arsenal of retrives and approaches to manipulate your fly in a particular way is crucial for the chironomid fisherman. There have been countless times when that single key alone, even more than size and color, has made the difference between a great day and an average day, or a few fish and no fish. I suggest paying close attention to how your fly is moving (or not moving as the case may be; some situations call for a perfectly still imitation)and more importantly, how the present conditions may impact the movement of the naturals in the water.
I am by no means the greatest chironomid fisherman in the world, but there have been a number of days when I was catching fish, and some other guys were not (all of us were fishing chironomids). All too often the question I am typically asked is “what fly/pattern are you using?”,and I am more than glad to share that with them, but the specific type of pattern is not always the key to catching fish. In these instances, they should have asked me, "how are you fishing your chironomid (as it relates to movement and depth)?
What I try to do when someone is catching fish and I am not, is to watch their hands. I want to see how they are manipulating their fly (I also try to see how far apart their indicator is from their fly, assuming of course they are using that system). Only after I have gotten a good read on the particular retrieve method being employed by the one catching fish will I move on to other factors if I still am unable to find success.
JC - Dave’s post should end up in Fly Fishing 101.
Dan S
The poster formerly known as Outrider
Wow. That was one of the most informative posts I have ever read - ANYWHERE. Takes out pen and takes notes
I do a lot of chironomid fishing myself, and you pretty much nailed it, there’s nothing more I can add. If you use indicators use the SMALLEST size you can get away with so that the fish doesn’t feel it when it picks up your fly, and set at the tiniest unnatural movements of the indictor. Some of my biggest fish of '05 came lake fishing and setting the hook almost with spidey senses as my indicator would just barely pick up speed or move the “wrong way” at a terribly slow pace, almost unnoticable. Any time you got a weird feeling, just set the hook 
Brian
[url=http://bowcrow.tripod.com:ea7d3]Bowcrow Fishing Adventures[/url:ea7d3]
[This message has been edited by Bowcrow (edited 13 January 2006).]
Brian, you make a great point about strike detection. Though not always the case, often times, even with an indicator, it requires one to have a “sixth sense” in order to detect a strike, as the take can be so soft, so subtle that the indicator fails to respond noticeably to it. In this regard, nymphing streams and rivers without using a strike indicator has really helped me to develop that sixth sense, which helps me tremendously when fishing chironomids. Using as small of an indicator as you can is very important (or do not use one at all, at least when you are fishing in deeper water).
Some people do not like “staring at a bobber” all day, but after a while, you can really begin to pick up the most subtle, almost imperceptible takes if you really are observant and pay attention to how the indicator responds under various conditions. As you said, “unnatural” movement or motion of the indicator always must be followed with a hook set.
Yeah, I should say that I don’t use indicators to go past about 12 foot depth. Then it’s sinking line, counting down each cast, etc.
Here is another deadly technique when using a strike indicator (in fairly calm conditions). Once every 2 minutes make a long slow steady pull (about a yard long, taking maybe 10 seconds to do so). This will cause your flies to come up from near the bottom and move up slightly in the water column, and sometimes this can trigger the fish. If it’s working when you do this and not when the flies are sitting still suspended under the indicator, then I proceed to pull much more often (one pull, sit for 10 seconds, another pull, repeat). Just remember, any odd motions of the indicator means a hit. 90% of the time it will just be a the indicator slowly going down. You’ll only get better with practice!
Being successfull at lake fishing in a productive lake will in the end probably catch you larger trout more consistently than any river will, but you do have to be willing to “stare at a bobber all day long” or fish very boring and tedious methods sometimes. But if the fishing is “on” there won’t be too many dull moments!
Brian
[url=http://bowcrow.tripod.com:7155b]Bowcrow Fishing Adventures[/url:7155b]
Brian, that is quite a fish you have there in that photo. If you do not mind me asking, where did you catch it? (of course, if this is a fishery which should not be mentioned in a forum like this, I completely understand).
I am curious to know if you have ever tried fishing with quick-release strike indicators that allow you to fish long leaders 15-20ft in deeper water? Do you ever employ the long leader/strike indicator method in water say between 15-20ft? I do not enjoy casting such a long leader, but this method can definitely produce when the fish are holding in deeper water.
I will usually forgo a floating line in water deeper than 20ft, but will use on in almost all other circumstances (I do use an intermdiate from time to time, particularly when I am fishing along the edges of weedbeds).
Again, nice fish.
DBK2, the fish is from a public reservoir in southern Alberta that is fast gaining a reputation as a trophy quality fishery, and needs friends so I don’t mind mentioning it. Bullshead Reservoir. The limit is one fish over 50cm (20 inches) and there are plenty to go around. Most of the days fish would be around 4-6lbs, with the odd one going 7+.
Fortunately enough, I have never had to fish really deep with chironomids to get into the fish. I have found that when they are active (at least for me and MY circumstances) they’ll be in water 12ft or less. I almost always use a strike indicator in this depth (makes it a bit hard to land them when your rod is only 9ft though!!!) unless of course the fish are chasing leeches or scuds or something other than chironomids.
I have never heard of a quick release indicator… I assume you could tie one on when fishing 20ft and when you set the hook hard it would just pop off to allow normal playing of the fish without the indicator getting in the way? Are there any links to this product you could share?
Brian
[url=http://bowcrow.tripod.com:9c736]Bowcrow Fishing Adventures[/url:9c736]
Brian, thanks for the info on where you caught that fish. As for those indicators I mentioned, you are correct in how they work. Once the hook is set, the indicator “releases”, allowing your leader to slide through it so you can land the fish you are playing. They work pretty well, but I will have to do some checking to see if I can find a link online for them. I’ll get back to you with that.
Dave, This post could be edited into an article and published.Wow. Great reponse! I have one question; have you ever tried using a sinking line and a floating leader to get down and then bring the fly up above the bottom vegatation,etc? I have been pondering trying that to be sure the fly was where I wanted it. They have some fairly short floating leaders out there that aren’t super buoyant and might do, and take some guess work out of finding the strike zone. Thanks again for the info. Jim
Jim, I do use a full sink (type 6)line to fish water that is deeper than 20ft. Once I have established the depth of the water I am anchored in, I simply cast out enough line (factoring in the length of my leader) to ensure that my fly is within the bottom 12-18" when the line is hanging vertically below me from the end of my rod tip. At this point, I will “crawl” my chironomid vertically upwards through the water column, allowing for pauses at times where I will let my fly hang motionless. The “hang down” or vertical method of fishing chironomids off a full sink line is a great way to cover the deeper water that chironomids live in (they can live in water 30+ft deep). I prefer this method to the long leader/floating line/indicator method (which I will not use in water deeper than 20ft)
Most Cronnie fisherpersons around here use strike indicaters . Too much like bobber fishing for me . I use an SA type 11 or 111 full sinking line . I let it sink for 2 minutes by my watch . Then a super slow retrieve . If it comes up with gook on the fly I let the next one sink for a minute and a half and so on till I finally find the right depth for the retreive I am doing . When it comes up clean I know I am fishing just off the bottom where I want to be . I use just a slow finger retrieve , no fast stripping. Just 4 or 5 - 4 inch pulls then rest , count to ten slowly then 4 or 5 more small pulls then rest again till the fly is all the way to the boat . Dont make the mistake of getting the fly near the rod tip then letting up and lifting the rod because some fish will actually follow the Chronimid right up to the surface and then smash the heck out of it . It is my most successful method of FFishing stillwaters . I fish size #30 to #14 , usually #20 and #18’s . If the real bugs are size 16 then I use one size bigger in this case a 14 . You have to give them something just a little different because there are thousands of bugs in there all the same size . Chronimid fishing can at times be absolutely spectacular . When no one else is catching anything Cronnies will work . In BC you are allowed to use two rods if you are alone in the boat . I rig up a second line , depth sound to find the water depth under my anchored boat . I let out enough line so I am about 1 foot off the bottom and set the 2nd flyrod in the rod holder I tie a Brian Chans red butt chronimid on this line . It imitates a chrinimid/bloodworm stage . Often while I am flailing away with my casts or while gently retreiveing my fly this second rod will catch a fish as the fly giggles up and down with the movements of the boat . Sometimes this second rod catches most of the fish . If I have a kid in the boat which is often I let them hold this rod , Kids always seem to out fish me . They fidgit and move around moving the fly up and down in the water randomly . It excites the heck out of the trout and they grab the fly and in doing so , a new fisherman is born .
Three years in a row the twice annyal unofficial fishing derby at a local lake has been won by a Kid under 8 years old .
I think it is important to be very quiet while chronimid fishing so I have a sound deadening carpet on the floor of my boat and I never take a radio or boombox out in the boat . I think a radio set on the seat or the floor of the boat will transfer sound to the fish . I could be wrong about this but it works for me .
Thanks for the replies! Now I just have to hang in there and fish it til I build some confidence in that subsurface midge fishing. So far I’ve only done well on dries and emergers. I look at that tiny speck of larva or pupa imitation, and think inside how much better a trout could see and want to eat a big juicy streamer. Thanks again, Jim
“Knowledge is knowing, wisdom is understanding”
Brian, here is a link for the quick release strike indicators I spoke about. Hope this helps some.
[url=http://www.waterswest.com/strikeindicators.htm:b3c3e]http://www.waterswest.com/strikeindicators.htm[/url:b3c3e]
Thanks. They will get an order from me very soon… I gotta try these out.
Brian
[url=http://bowcrow.tripod.com:7d357]Bowcrow Fishing Adventures[/url:7d357]