Speaking of Furled leaders............

FAOL Community Fly Anglers Online
1

Today was my first full day experience using furled leaders. Unless I was doing something wrong ( fishing), I am not to be a fan of same. After about 200-300 casts,the leader was twisting itself into little braids along it’s length. At first the “braids” were easy enough to straighten just by gentle pulling on the leader but then as more braids formed, I gave up. All ended up in a tangled mess of leader, tippet and fly. By the way, the leader material was thread.
At this point, I’ll have to say, NO furled leaders for me.

Mark

2

You can send your leftovers to me :wink: …I hate spending $12 each!

Sorry to hear about the rough day, I’ve never had major problems with them, and now, its all I use.

3

May I ask where you got your leaders? I wouldn’t discount furled leaders based on a single experience like yours. I admit I haven’t been using them long, but I have not yet seen anything like you mention happen, nor have I heard of this problem before.

It almost sounds like the leader did not furl properly.

4

CoFF,
The source is unimportant. The leader I was using was thread and very light (?). I was fishing turbulent water and obviously the fly was getting a workout. I had a #14 Stimulator tied on. Obviously the twists were caused by the fly . My question is, however, I have used the tapered mono leaders in the same situation and never had a problem. Seems to me the thread is/gets limp when wet and reacts to the twists of the fly by “braiding” where a mono leader does not or twists less and then untwists much like a spring unwinding.

Mark

5

Interesting - I’ve never used furled leaders but recently purchased both thread and mono ones and am taking a trip to the Catskills this weekend. I plan on giving both a workout during the trip. I’ll report back what I find.

Not being an expert I wonder if the thread leaders you have didn’t have enough wraps so they may have been TOO LIGHT for the conditions?

6

I’ve made and used furled leaders for about the past 10 years. I originally used thread, then went to mono about 4 years ago. I MUCH prefer the mono. The primary and only advantage I see to using a thread leader is that it does tend to be a bit more supple, which is desirable for controlling drag with regards to dry fly fishing. However that same suppleness becomes a determent with regards to resisting the twisting that you experienced.

Granted a poorly designed/tied fly that spins like a banshee on the cast is going to reek havoc on any leader sooner or later. Not implying anything about the fly you were using, but some flies really do spin like a blender due to wind resistance, and all that twist has to go somewhere.

Actually a couple of my customers have requested that I terminate some of my leaders using a small swivel for casting streamers specifically to avoid the issue you describe. Them seem to like them. I can’t speak first hand since I tend to be a dry fly bigot and don’t fish any streamers.

In my opinion, furled leaders really excel in alot of situations, but single strand leaders do have advantages sometimes.

p.s. Cold, $12 is alot to pay for a furled leader! I don’t know where you shop, but the going rate for furled leaders on line is closer to $5 - $6 delivered. From a pure economic perspective, the leader will easily last you at least a full season, if not 2 or 3 (unless of course they end up in a twisted mess). They are actually a pretty economical way to go.

7

Marco, if it’s one of the ones I sent you a couple of years ago, it probably would twist a lot with a larger fly. I believe I was making them out of UNI 6/0 and 8/0 at the time. :stuck_out_tongue:

8

Hey Ron,
Believe me, for the price I paid you for your generosity, I would have kept my mouth/keyboard shut and if necessary used them to tie tomato plants to their stakes:).
In other words, NO, they were not the ones you sent me. AND, thank you AGAIN.

MARK

PS: I do believe that obviously the twisting was caused by the fly and will give it a try again with a different one. I’ll also experiment with thoroughly wetting the furled leader and placing it on a level countertop to see if there is ANY reaction ( like wanting to UNfurl)

9

Mark -

I started furling my own thread leaders about four and a half years ago. I have used thread furled leaders almost exclusively over that period of time. ( The exceptions being streamer fishing and using mono leaders for some nymph fishing situations. ) That means something like five hundred days plus fishing a wide variety of flies from size 20 midge to size 6 stonefly dries and size 18 to size 6 nymphs, sometimes two big stonefly nymphs under an indicator**, on thread furled leaders.

I have never had the problem you describe. I have had a few flies that wanted to “propeller” that did cause minor problems with twisting, but it was in the tippet and not the furled leader itself.

pszy22 says “The primary and only advantage I see to using a thread leader is that it does tend to be a bit more supple, which is desirable for controlling drag with regards to dry fly fishing.” My experience is that a thread furled leader also improves the drift for nymphing.

You seem to be concluding, in effect, that ALL furled leaders are equal and that ALL furled leaders will cause the problem you experienced. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Whether it is worth one’s time to find a furled leader that will suit one’s purposes is a personal decision. But to write off ALL furled leaders based on one bad experience with one leader that didn’t perform properly ( and the problem most likely was with the fly ) is giving short shrift to one of the best things available for just about any kind of dry fly and nymph fishing.

John

** Last week on the South Fork, I was fishing two heavily weighted size 6 4XL stonefly nymphs under a big fluffy yarn indicator using a 68" 14-12-10 thread furled leader and almost 8’ of tippet and casting relatively tight loops with that rig on a fast action 7 wt.

10

Hey John,
Thanks for the input. As I indicated in my last post, I will try the same type furled leader again today. Different fly, probably some type of parachute. Yesterday, I did also tie on a hares ear nymph and did a lot of waiting at the end of drift and then stripping a bit. Perhaps THAT fly “propellering” in the current caused the braiding but I didn’t actually experience that till I tied on the Stimulator . My aforementioned “experiment” will show me if there is ANY tendency for a furled leader to want to UNfurl under certain conditions.
In any case, I’m goin fishin even in THIS (Jackson WY area) weather. I didn’t drive 1500 miles to sit at the bar ( a bit later for that).

And John, if you see foam downstream of the Snake, that’ll be me beating the water to a froth UPstream.

Mark

PS: Just noticed, you’re NOT DOWNstream anymore.

11

i am not 100% converted on furled leaders, but maybe a furled leader made from mono vs thread would be a better choice. the mono seems to work for me

12

Material matters! So do some other things that go into furled leader design.

Nylon thread stretches, while Mercerized Cotton and Polyester do not!

If the thread size use for the looping sequence, is too small, the furled leader cannot handle bulky flies, such as the "Stimulator you were using.

The butt end of the furled leader needs bulk, to successfully transfer the energy of the cast from the fly line to the furled leader.

3/0 thread = 210 denier
6/0 thread = 140 denier
8/0 thread = 70 denier

For my 7 weight fly lines (and larger), I use 210 denier thread. For my 5 & 6 weight fly lines, I use 140 denier thread. For my 3 & 4 weight fly lines I use 70 denier thread.

I do not use nylon thread, I always use either Mercerized Cotton and Polyester thread. I do not use fly tying thread, instead I use "
Coats & Clark" or something similar.

One aspect that some furled leaders are missing is the coating. The original silk fly lines were braided around a center core of thread. The braided silk fly line was then dipped in shellac to bond the core and braidings. The line’s surface was also sealed with a coating of shellac applied using a cloth wrap dampened with Shellac.

The Shellac, helps to give the line a spine, and also seals the thread to prevent the knotting of the line. Same applies to furled leaders. I use warmed varnish for my dip, and wipe-down.

Another reason for all the “Wind Knots” is either your timing in casting, or the furled leader is not balanced with the fly that you are using. Either by weight or wind drag. Same applies for Wet Flies, and Streamer that soak up water, which add to their weight. The fly may be too much for the furled leader to handle.

Another problem with any leader construction is the hinge effect, if segments are not balanced, in relation to each other. You cannot just randomly place pegs in the leader board and start wrapping loops. Most of the leader recipes I have seen, are completely out of balance, and it is a wonder that they caster can get a decent cast of the fly onto the water.

There is a lot that goes into leaders, and fly lines, and fly rods. And the weak link will cause a angler lots of problems. ~Parnelli

13

p.s. Cold, $12 is alot to pay for a furled leader! I don’t know where you shop, but the going rate for furled leaders on line is closer to $5 - $6 delivered. From a pure economic perspective, the leader will easily last you at least a full season, if not 2 or 3 (unless of course they end up in a twisted mess). They are actually a pretty economical way to go.

Yeah…I know. I’ve been fishing the Blue Sky mono furled leaders and I love them. I have 2 for each rod (of 3) I regularly fish: one dressed with Watershed & Mucilin for dries, and one naked for nymphs & streamers.

Nobody sells them around here, and I hate trying anything new based on only reading online and not actually seeing/handling it. Might have to try, though.

Still, after I blew out the end of my first one, I’ve had my second one for aaaalmost a year, and it’s still going strong.

14

Gents,
Thanks all for the input. I’ll give em a try again here shortly. I’m Off! ( How come when I say “I’m off”, rather than wishing me safe passage, my wife simply agrees?)

Mark

15

Steven,

There seem to be some differences in the deniers from various companies …this would be important to your Big Tapered Leader Forumulas wouldn’t it ?