I had a pleasant surprise yesterday when I finally got around to replacing a snake guide on a bamboo rod that had been wrapped with silk and finished with spar varnish. The wrap was removed easily by simply slicing along the side of the snake guide foot and then peeling it off. Much easier than the one time I had to repair some guides on a graphite rod finished with Flexcoat Light.
Also, the varnish did not adhere the snake guide foot to the blank. As soon as the wrap was peeled off, the foot was loose and easy to remove. And there was no “residue” of varnish remaining on the blank needing to be cleaned up. Just reset the snake guide, wrapped it with fresh silk, and applied the first couple coats of varnish.
Which got me to wondering - how many of you use spar varnish when wrapping a rod ?? bamboo or graphite or glass ?? rather than one of the other products out there ?? and do you have some other experience with it, for better or worse ?? 'cause I’m thinking that I might use varnish on my next build whether it is bamboo or graphite.
Back in the 70’s when I was taught most of what I know about rod building spar varnish was the finish if choice, Applied with numerous very thin coats it can be quite beautiful. I used it on several glass rods I built back then - never had a problem with it,
The advantage to the polymers used today is that they are more durable and much more clear than spar varnish. Although I do get tempted to use it now and again. Nothing wrong with it in my opinion.
I’ve always used spar varnish, it just what I grew up with. Never had a problem, so never had a reason to switch. I will say I don’t use color preservative, I like the look of semi transparent wraps. Biggest problem was finding a small can that didn’t cost more than the blank, found an 8 oz can at ACE hardware.
I recently bought a can of Helmsman varnish made by the Minwax folks. I’m finishing a Payne 100 blank made by Mike Brooks and who recommended the varnish. This “varnish” is a spar varnish of sorts. It comes in satin, semi-gloss and gloss. Mike also said it would work for varnishing guide wraps. Can’t wait to try it. Problem is I intend to coat the blank with no less than 10-12 coats hand rubbed so it will be taking a while.
I use Minwax Helmsman on various projects, it is GREAT stuff. It is actually a spar urethane.
The product does have UV inhibitors in it and holds up very well to the environment. It is fully rated for outdoor use.
It is offered in oil-based, low VOC oil-based and water-based versions. My preference is for the water-based product. I have no issues with it AND cleanup is a snap.
This stuff is incredibly durable. It is VERY VERY hard and can take whatever is thrown at it.
You can get it in gloss, semi-gloss and satin finishes. My preference is definitely the full gloss and it looks smashing IMO.
Having never finished a boo rod completely , I am curious about what I’ve read. My understanding (and I could be mistaken) is that some builders completely dip the entire rod incuding the wraps and guides into a dip tube filled with varnish. If this is correct, what becomes of the guides that now have hardened varnish on them??
On another note: I have finished wraps on a varnished cane rod. Varnish applied after the fact is one method. Another is application of Permagloss, yet another is using thinned Flex Coat epoxy. I have tried all three. My favorite at this point is using thinned Flex Coat , mostly because I am the most comfortable with it and have learned how to apply it keeping the shape of the flats…Flat. I find varnish takes many coats as does permagloss, and is very difficult to apply evenly and keep the shape of the flats…But that’s just my opinion.
most of the varnish runs off the guides during the dip. the rest can be cleaned off w/ a scrap of nylon (i.e. pantyhose-ask yer wife for an old pair…).
Thanks much for the link. I’ve been on Dave’s site before, but I had not seen the page on his work with spar varnish. Thinking maybe I will take a trip up to West Yellowstone this year to see him, if he is out here and available.
I looked at the link and I have met Dave and seen his work now for years. He has always done outstanding work IMO. As a matter of fact the first rod I ever built was a kit I purchased form Dave…All that being said… I dont like the barrel effect at the ferrules myself using the varnish. But that’s just my opionion. I will say this and Dave mentions it…Make sure you test your threads using varnish for color change. I made a color wand for testing threads with epoxy and or the use of CP…I suggest you do the same for varnish if that is your finish of choice…Ed
I don’t particularly care for it either, and I wonder if that is a result of using varnish, or an effect that Lewis is trying to create for whatever reason. Maybe to strengthen the ferrules on the graphite rods ?? If you look at some of the other wraps, it is clear that he makes many of them very “slim”, if I may use that word to describe the opposite effect.
Lewis indicated at one point that he typically uses five coats of varnish, and there is an implication that he often uses more. That might account for the barreling effect ??
One thing that I really like on the bamboo rod that I wrapped is how “slim” the wraps are. I only used four coats of Ace Hardware Brand spar varnish thinned 25% with Sunnyside Brand turpentine. Maybe that is the difference ??
I don’t get by here as much as I used to, but I ran across this discussion and find the thoughts interesting. I’m not sure how Dave is getting the football effect, but he may be using size A nylon, which is a lot thicker than what the bamboo builders use. I use 3/0 silk with 6/0 tipping, some go down as far as 6/0 for the main wraps. Size A looks like rope against 3/0. None of my work has the kind of thickness that Dave is getting. Most production composite rods have the thick whippings and most people now expect to see that on one of them. The new generation bamboo makers are all going after a minimalist, translucent look. There are some who use the catalyzed coatings like flex-coat and its relatives, but most are using varnish.
The reason that the commercial builders went to the catalyzed coatings was time. To get a translucent whipping on a guide is quite time consuming. First comes the the secret sauce, which can be as simple as varnish thinned 50/50 or thinner. Two coats of that to get maximum translucence and no shimmers, followed by 24 hours dry. Then comes 2 or three coats of full strength varnish at a4 hour recoat time, followed by 3 days dry time. Finally there is at least 2 more coats on a 4 hour recoat schedule, followed by 24 hours drying. Finally the wraps are leveled and the rod is finished. Once the finish has hardened for several days it is sanded with #2000 paper and polished. Its fine for a rod that commands a price af a couple of grand, but totally impractical for a production rod. The above works with the urethanes like Helmsman that has a 4 hour recoat time. A true solvent varnish like Ace Spar has a 48 hour recoat time, so the finish regimen would take proportionately longer. Most bamboo makers are finishing with either a dip tube or a drain tube setup. A rod dipped after the whippings are leveled has a barely perceptible transition in the level of the finish from the shaft to the tipping. Varnish on the guides is not generally a problem.
A few general points on varnish as a finish… UV inhibitors are not an adavntage for the average rod finish. In spite of what it may seem like a rod still spends far more time indoors, than out… Nothing is added to varnish to make it tougher or work better; it is all added to make it easier to apply.
Matting agents are a prefect example… They all impact finish hardness and flexibility in negative ways and only make the top coat less glossy. If you want a matte finish use a gloss finish because it is better finish, but knock the gloss down to whatever appeals to you.
Solvents are another finish weakener, used only to make the finish easier to apply. Obviously there are no other choices some times, but do everything else possible to apply finish without solvents, or at least as little as possible.
I have spent a tremendous amount of time in a wood finish lab working on better wood finishes and application methods… But most of my rod building has been limited to epoxy…
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hap is 100% right. in woodworking i use high gloss spar because it becomes hard as a rock. if you want a satin finish, knock it down with steel wool or final coat with satin. all of you should check out spars by “fine paints of europe” it is simply the best product available out there.
The one revelation I can share with regards to spar varnish is a GREAT application tool. I had previously read elsewhere that a knitting needle works well to apply wrap finishes. Fearing my wife, I dared not take one of her needles, being one of the cheapest sob’s around, I didn’t want to pay for one.
One day while mulling over my dilemma while at a restaurant, it stuck me. A wooden chop stick. Just so happens the restaurant (Mongolian Bar-b-q) had disposable chop sticks, so I took a few home.
Boy, do they work well. Each dip into the varnish picks up just the right amount to finish a single wrap. I didn’t have a single drip end up on the kitchen table. You can very precisely place the finish exactly were you want it. You have the option to exert a bit of pressure to work the finish deep into the wraps for the first coat, for successive coats, you can lay on the finish with little or no pressure, almost like frosting a cake. Plus it generates absolutely no bubbles in the finish or on the wrap.
Best thing of all, particularly dealing with varnish and multiple coats, is the clean up. Take the corner of a paper towel, a quick swipe, and the chop stick is cleaned and ready to go for the next coat.
